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G1



  • Hello everyone,

    I will be making a youtube video soon all about Germany’s first turn sequence. Looking for discussions on the most standard of German moves rather than risky gambits like first turn attacks on Russia, or leaving France for Italy.

    I want to show inexperienced players how to do an effective G1, so that their experienced teamates don’t winse everytime they move a unit. Any help or participation is greatly appreciated.

    What are the most logical methods for a good result?

    • Buy 1 Aircraft Carrier and 2 Transports?
    • Send a Sub to #106?
    • 2 Subs each into #111 and #110?
    • How do you divide your air units when attacking royal navy?
    • How much into France?
    • Leave Normandy and/or Southern France for turn 2?
    • Fighter for Rome?
    • Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Findland?
    • Non-Combat setup for turn 2?

    I’m also wondering if we can all agree on something as simple as a G1 sequence.



  • The following blueprint may be changed according to popular opinion.

    Research & Development
    None

    Repair Units & Facilities
    None

    Purchase New Units:
    1 Aircraft Carrier
    2 Transports

    Combat Movement:
    SZ#106 - 1 Submarine
    SZ#110 - 2 Submarines, 1 Battleship, 2 Fighters, 2 T.Bombers, 1 S.Bomber
    SZ#111 - 2 Submarines, 2 Fighters, 2 T.Bomber, 1 S.Bomber
    France - 7 Infantry, 4 M.Infantry, 3 Artillery, 6 Tanks
    Yugoslavia - 9 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 3 Tanks, 1 Fighter

    Non-Combat Movement:
    1 Cruiser, 1 Transport into SZ#113 / 2 Infantry from Germany into Norway
    3 Infantry from Norway into Finland
    3 Infantry from Germany into W.Germany
    6 Infantry, 3 Artillery, 1 AA Gun from Germany into Poland
    1 AA Gun from Germany into Slovakia
    1 AA Gun from Germany into W.Germany
    3 AA Guns from W.Germany into France
    1 T.Bomber from Poland to W. Germany
    1 T.Bomber from Germany onto new Aircraft Carrier
    1 Fighter from Slovakia to Southern Italy
    All surviving air units from the Atlantic into W.Germany

    Place New Units:
    1 Aircraft Carrier into #112
    2 Transports into #112

    Collect income:
    $39 income
    $10 National objective
    $19 Capital gain
    = $68


  • Customizer

    Here is what I typically do on G 1.

    Research & Development
    None

    Repair Units & Facilities
    None

    Purchase New Units
    1 Aircraft Carrier
    1 Destroyer
    1 Submarine

    Combat Movement
    SZ 091 = 1 submarine
    SZ 106 = 1 submarine
    SZ 109 = 1 submarine
    SZ 110 = 1 submarine, 3 fighters, 3 Stukas, 1 Bomber
    SZ 111 = 1 submarine, 1 battleship, 1 fighter, 1 Stuka, 1 bomber
    Normandy = 1 tank, 2 mechs
    S. France = 1 tank, 2 mechs
    France = 7 infantry, 3 artillery, 4 tanks, 1 Stuka
    Yugoslavia = 6 infantry, 2 artillery, 3 tanks, 1 fighter

    Non-Combat Movement
    1 Cruiser, 1 transport to SZ 112 (1 infantry, 1 artillery from Germany to Norway)
    3 Infantry from Norway to Finland
    3 infantry, 1 artillery from Germany to Poland
    1 infantry from Germany to Slovakia
    1 infantry from Romania to Bulgaria
    6 infantry, 1 artillery from Germany to W. Germany
    1 AA gun from Germany to Poland
    2 AA gun from Germany to Slovakia
    1 Stuka from France to W Germany
    3 fighters, 2 Stukas, 1 bomber from SZ 110 to W Germany (assuming all survive)
    1 Stuka from SZ 110 to land on carrier in SZ 112
    1 Stuka, 1 bomber from SZ 111 to W Germany
    1 fighter from SZ 111 to land on carrier in SZ 112
    If any British units survive in SZ 111 after 1 round combat, retreat 1 submarine, 1 battleship to SZ 112 (assuming 1 or both survive)
    1 fighter from Yugoslavia to S Italy

    Place New Units
    1 Aircraft Carrier SZ 112
    1 Destroyer SZ 112
    1 Submarine SZ 112

    Collect Income
    $44 territories
    $10 National Objectives
    $19 Capital Plunder
    = $73

    With these movements, assuming all are successful, Germany reaps the following benefits:
    $5 more in the bank for next round. Even if I decide on Sealion and buy 10 transports, I can get an extra infantry to put somewhere.
    The four extra Bulgarians will help guard the Eastern Front in Romania.
    The artillery in Norway will go to Finland so those troops will have a little offensive punch for Barbarossa.
    Germany now controls ALL of France with 2 extra minor ICs and naval bases. Also, with taking S France has access to the Med if want to help Italy. Minor drawback, French ships in SZ 93 could convoy raid and lower German income, but still not below $70.
    SZ 111 = UK gets an average of 2 hits, which would sink the sub and damage the battleship. By retreating to SZ 112 after 1 round of combat, it should leave the UK with 1 damaged battleship while leaving Germany with 1 carrier (w/fighter and tac), 1 battleship (damaged), 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 1 transport in SZ 112. If all UK ships are sunk and UK doesn’t scramble from Scotland, then German BB will be stranded in SZ 111 but Royal Navy is all gone.
    Attacking SZ 109 eliminates that UK transport which could go to Canada for more reinforcements or even take Holland which will likely be unguarded. Granted, it will be a small force easily overcome, but still a nuisance.
    Attacking the cruiser in SZ 91 could be great help for the Italian fleet, may even prevent a Taranto.

    Now, I would point out that all these gains are dependent upon German successes. If the dice go bad or UK scrambles, could be a whole different ball game afterward.


  • '14

    @knp7765:

    Normandy = 1 tank, 2 mechs
    S. France = 1 tank, 2 mechs

    How do you move all that mech onto S. France and Normandy without armor accompanying it?

    TripleA allows mech to move independently of tanks, but my understanding of the rules was that they need to be paired 1:1 (player enforced in tripleA).

    As for my own G1 approach, I play only regular dice rules, so that factors into my strategies.  😄
    If conservative I might try something similar to what Knp and YG do, but I would also observe the following…

    Hitting the British cruiser in sz 91 is a fairly high risk play, but the payoff is also substantial. Its basically a 1 in 3 chance to sink the cruiser in the first round of combat at a trade of 6 TUV for 12 TUV, but the real payoff is that it stunts UKs options against Italy in the med. So this is a gamble, but one I consider a solid gamble. I think there is an interesting choice to be made between sz 106 and sz 109. In 106 the german sub doesn’t face any scramble threat, and its basically a 50/50 shot to sink 15 TUV (killing a transport in the process.) Sz 109 is also interesting because that transport and dd could potentially threaten annoying UK1 amphibious launches. If going to 109 I may send the single fighter from Holland, in the event you can draw a UK scramble to that sz over the others, or to take the hit on the fighter and try to keep the sub alive to sink the transport.

    sz 110 can only get 1 sub onto it if you go for those prior two attacks, and sz 111 can get dicey as well. I would also send the battleship into the fight in one of these, plus at least 1 sub each. I usually throw the strat bombers into whichever fight I didn’t send the battleship to. The exact break up of TacBs and Fighters is a little flexible. If bringing the Holland fighter to sz 109 then you have to do an uneven split, if forgoing sz 109, I like to go 2 of each fighters paired with TacBs in both sea zones 110 and 111.

    If gambling for the whole of Europe:
    1 inf, 1 art, 1 tank to Normandy (89% odds). 1 tank 1 mech to S. France (minor gamble at 52% odds, if it fails left for Italy.)
    On France 6 inf, 3 mech, 2 art, 4 tanks and the tac Bomber from Poland (93% odds on Paris.)

    If Not gambling for the whole of Europe:
    Only Normandy, with the units from the S. France attack just going to France 5 tanks (for 99% odds on Paris)

    or vice versa, only S. France (no Normandy attack sending them to French Capital instead for 99.8% odds on Paris), depending on the whether you want to press Baltic or Med. In either case, bringing the tactical bomber from Poland is a given, just to ice it! haha 😄

    Finally, I go with the Romania Bounce move!
    A staple, I see it in practically every one of my games. The play is like this…

    all ground units remaining in Greater Southern Germany, along with the fighter from Slovakia Hungary, and a single Infantry unit from Romania will attack into Yugoslavia. Strafe for 1 round, to soften up the territory for Italy, then retreat all attacking units to Romania. If you get a clean sweep, then that’s fine, but the ideal is to strafe for the movement exploit.The fighter involved in this attack may land in Southern Italy to cover Taranto (esp. if the sz 91 sub attack against the cruiser failed) or it can fly to anywhere else you might want to put it.

    On Non Com, I take Finland for Germany light with 1 inf (if sz 109 failed) or heavy with everything (if sz 109 succeded.)

    Depending on what happened with Yugoslavia I may also take Bulgaria at this point for Germany, or leave it for the Italians if the attacks went well. For fleet movements I prefer to leave the cruiser in sz 114 to trap the Russians (prevents their cruiser from blocking in 114 on R1), but might move the transport forward depending on how the air attacks went against UK (whether they scrambled, if so how many units remain, or if not then staying in sz 114 for sure haha.) Depending on how many of my fighters survive in the attacks against the royal navy, I like to try and land at least 3 air in W. Germany for the AB scramble option, but may leave air in Holland with aaaguns, if my fighter from there or tac B from Germany to sz110 somehow survives.

    As for Purchase, I think you have some flexibility there too. I like the carrier and 2 transports buy. Or the carrier + destroyer + sub buy. Or 1 strategic bomber and 1 sub with 12 ipcs left over.

    12 ipcs left over is a decent spread. You can spend on infantry, tanks, a bomber etc. even a minor factory. This last only if Romania is part of the plan. I find it better to buy the minor and then upgrade for 20, an additional 2 ipcs cost, rather than drop 30 ipcs on the major all at once. Its easier to stage over two rounds, gets you three units production in the interim, and I find the additional cost is pretty negligible. Its 12+20 over two rounds, vs 30 all at once, and for me at least, the former is bit easier to work with despite the minor increase in total cost. A Romania factory isn’t necessary though, and can spread Germany overmuch, if the other battles didn’t go off well, so I’m not sure how much faith I’d put in it on G1. Still its an option with the 12 ipcs remaining.

    I also think the G1 airbase buy can be kind of fun, though that’s putting a lot of eggs into one basket. The main thing is to strike a balance between conservatism and taking some chances where the trades would really benefit Axis if they prevail. G1 is probably the diciest round in the game, and you might get diced no matter what you do, so I think it does make sense sometimes to try for a few reaching attacks. That’s why I kind of like the 1 sub against each sz model. Though if you really want to play it as safe as possible you can just try for sz 110/111 and then send the lone wolf to sz 106 for the target of opportunity kill, and to try and draw the UK destroyer back to Canada instead of forward towards Norway or Holland or Gibraltar etc.

    G1 you really need to focus on maintaing overall Air superiority against the sea zones bordering London that could potentially drop ships. Two approaches to that, either threaten invasion with transports and force them to buy ground instead of ships for defense, or have enough air at the ready to deter any attempt to get in the water by UK. Basically mass luftwaffe with subs serving as the fodder.

    Oh also, for the non com phase, if transports weren’t part of your first round purchase, I think it makes sense to drive everything south, with the 3 remaining tanks to Romania, and everything else on the eastern front stacked in Slovakia. From here they can support the Romania bounce/stafe if it succeeded, but can also redirect with the entire force onto E. Poland on G2 if desired. I think the question of whether to take Bulgaria with G, or leave the units for Italy can be very interesting. I haven’t decided which I prefer.


  • Customizer

    @Black_Elk:

    @knp7765:

    Normandy = 1 tank, 2 mechs
    S. France = 1 tank, 2 mechs

    How do you move all that mech onto S. France and Normandy without armor accompanying it?

    TripleA allows mech to move independently of tanks, but my understanding of the rules was that they need to be paired 1:1 (player enforced in tripleA).

    The only time mech has to be paired 1:1 with armor is when blitzing enemy controlled territories. When passing through friendly territories, they can move 2 on their own. As for my movements:
    2 mechs W Germany > Holland/Belgium > Normandy
    2 mechs W Germany > Northern Italy > Southern France

    We have played with a house rule that mechs can blitz on their own, so even that would not be a consideration for us.
    By the way, I only use regular dice rules as well (no low luck!).

    One move you mentioned was the “Romania Bounce” where you simply strafe Yugoslavia with units from Greater Southern Germany and 1 infantry from Romania, then retreat all units to Romania. I understand that it is a very good strategical move and gets your guys up to the Russian border faster, but I have just never liked that move. Too unrealistic for my tastes. Yes, I know a lot about this game is unrealistic, but I guess that just pushes it too far for me. The “All units retreat to 1 territory” rule has been more of a burden for me when I play (leaving key territories undefended). While this is a good way to turn it into a help, I just don’t like it and almost never use it that way. Thinking back, it might have cost me a few losses, but that’s just how I prefer to play it.


  • '14

    Fascinating! My reading of the rule was always that the Mech needed to be paired with Tanks 1:1 anytime their movement resulted in attack into enemy territory across 2 spaces. So you’re saying the only time they need to be paired is when blitzing both moves 2 spaces through hostile territory?

    That is fairly huge! Definitely alters G1 in favor going for Normandy and S. France.

    To think, all the while I was unaware of this! I had always just figured it was an issue with tripleA, and that people were ignoring the movement pairing. Thanks for the clarification there dude. This basically upends my whole assessment of G40 strategy for years. Take it back to square one I guess. How could anything I know be trusted now?

    Legit, I’m telling you, in every game I have played since this board came out, I have been playing that Mechs needed Tanks to attack into enemy territory across two spaces. If they can move 2 spaces into an attack all by themselves, provided the intermediate territory is friendly, that basically changes a whole series of possible plays! Earth shattering. Funny how I can play all that time, and it takes something like this to bring it to light for me.

    You just went atomic on me with that bombshell dude hahaha! back to the lab I guess. Gah! 😄

    Ps. I think I may adopt your HR with respect to Mech blitzing independently all the time, since now their pairing with tanks just seems silly to me. Before the way we treated it, Mech could move 2 spaces solo on non com, but if they were going to move 2 spaces into combat, they were always accompanied by Armor. This meant Tanks and Mech together, always, for any attack across 2 territories, regardless of whether the first territory was friendly or not. If Mech can do this alone, it basically changes everything. Axis must truly crush the way you guys are playing in that case! And I thought they had the advantage before, but this really allows G/I to put the stomp down with can openers. Crazy.

    My mind is thoroughly blown. Now I need to go sleep this shocker off haha. Night all


  • 2015

    I was casually sifting through some of the Tier 1 League games, and I noticed that taking Southern France on G1 seems almost universal.  I have been a bit hesitant with that, since I’ve been burned by having less forces in France, but it’s something I’ll be incorporating into my future games for certain now.

    As for buys, though, I’ve never really gotten the need for the Aircraft Carrier.  I guess it’s because I tend to not bother with a German fleet.  Sealion is a trap.  I like to either buy nothing, or go with two Bombers and a Sub.



  • Interested more in safe plays rather than risky ones, I mean how would most experienced players feel about their German teamate trying to go after France, Normandy, Southern France, 111, 110, and Yugoslavia all in turn 1?… what are the odds like?

    As for the Aircraft Carrier purchase, I buy it so I can land the Tac Bomber from Germany after using it on the Royal Navy. I also need it to take Gibraltar and then into the Med to support Italy… so it’s not just about Sealion.

    I really like your idea about looking at tripleA first turn blueprints.



  • Research & Development
    None

    Repair Units & Facilities
    None

    Purchase New Units
    3 Artillery
    3 Submarine

    Combat Movement
    SZ 106 = 2 submarine
    SZ 110 = 2 submarine, 3 fighters, 3 Tacs, 1 Bomber
    SZ 111 = 1 submarine, 1 battleship, 1 fighter, 1 Tac, 1 bomber  (strafe if possible)
    France = 7 infantry, 3 artillery, 6 tanks, 4 mechs
    Yugoslavia = 8 infantry, 2 artillery, 3 tanks, 1 fighter, 1 Tac

    Non-Combat Movement
    1 Cruiser, 1 transport to SZ 112 (2 infantry Denmark to Norway)
    Retreat SZ 111 to SZ 112 if possible
    3 Infantry from Norway to Finland
    13 infantry, 3 artillery from Germany to Slovakia
    1 infantry from Romania to Bulgaria
    3 AA gun from Germany to Slovakia
    3 AA gun from W Germany to Holland
    2 fighters, 2 Tac from SZ 110 to Holland
    1 Tac, 1 Fighter from SZ 110 to land in W Germany
    1 Tac, 1 Fighter, 1 bomber from SZ 111 to W Germany
    1 Fighter, 1 Tac from Yugoslavia to S Italy

    Place New Units
    3 Artillery Germany
    3 Submarine SZ 112

    Collect Income
    $39 territories
    $10 National Objectives
    $19 Capital Plunder
    = $68

    Subs can hunt down any 111 survivors and protect the bb.  My move into France was so that I get the best outcome with as few casualties as possible.  My naval priorities are similar, best bang for the buck.  Germany turn 2 sets up in Romania, then invades turn 3.


  • '14

    @Young:

    Interested more in safe plays rather than risky ones, I mean how would most experienced players feel about their German teamate trying to go after France, Normandy, Southern France, 111, 110, and Yugoslavia all in turn 1?… what are the odds like?

    Well I’m still reeling from this Mech revelation, but it really doesn’t alter my opening assessment all that much, just that I’ve been spending a lot more on tanks to activate mech, than I needed to haha.

    I think overcompensating for Paris comes about in a dice game, because of the experience of getting burned there “that one time.” Once you’ve been shocked with heavy casualties, or seen a complete dud, or even witnessed Paris somehow surviving, then you want to pad for it in all your games. But statistically France should be a shoe in. For example in the attacks outline by KNP, which may seem high risk both Normandy and S. France are above 80%, and Paris itself (if you bring the stuka) is 90% with 5 units remaining on average, meaning all the armor lives and stuka lives.

    If you forego either Normandy or France, and send the extra units from one of those attacks to Paris you jump the odds 99% with 10 units remaining on average. So its basically a question of how much you are willing to risk in casualties.

    Now before if I really wanted southern France, I would bring 2 tanks 1 mech to get that battle at 90%, (because of how I thought mech pairing needed to work), but now that the reverse is possible, 1 tank 2 mech at above 80% odds, I would almost certainly go for it.

    How to play the sz attacks is more complicated, because you can’t control for the scramble, and whether UK scramble or not may have to do with what G purchased. Its it trickier situation to parse the odds. In general if you go safe sz110, sz111, and sz 106 then you should prevail handily, but its still possible to get ruthlessly diced even if you pad for it. Likewise if you do the sub split like KNP suggested you may also get burned, but if you don’t and if you win, then you have set up your Axis partner for an excellent start, and they will probably be patting you on the back for having such vision and trust in your dice haha. Or you could get totally smoked, at which point they might blame everything that goes wrong for the rest of the game on you 😉

    That’s just the way it goes in A&A, but in a team game, I like to see Germany exploit the initiative and use G1 to max effect. We all know how easy it is to get burned by dice, but if the teammate wants to take a considered risk to set up a winning game, I generally support the idea.



  • Great post Black_Elk, lots of good stuff to ponder.



  • Great Idea, YG.
    I would even like a turn-by-turn outline for both sides if it ever gets to that. Just to see what the consensus is, especially for the allies (the black sheep in our family ;-)). As far as Axis strategy goes:

    Research & Development None

    Repair Units & Facilities
    None

    Purchase New Units:
    6 art
    2 inf

    Combat Movement:
    SZ#106 - 2 Submarines
    SZ#110 - 2 Submarines, 3 Fighters, 3 T.Bombers, 1 S.Bomber
    SZ#111 - 1 Submarine, 1 Battleship, 1 Fighter, 1 T.Bomber, 1 S.Bomber
    France - 7 Infantry, 1 Mech, 3 Artillery, 6 Tanks
    Yugoslavia - 9 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 3 Tanks, 1 TAC (from Poland)
    Southern France - 1 Fighter (from Hungary), 3Mech

    Non-Combat Movement:
    1 Cruiser, 1 Transport into SZ#113
    1 Infantry from Romania into Bulgaria
    3 Infantry from Norway into Finland
    9 Infantry, 3 Artillery, 3 AA Gun from Germany into Poland
    3 Infantry from Germany into West Germany
    3 AA Guns from W.Germany into Holland
    1 T.Bomber from Yugho (Poland) to S. Italy
    1 Fighter from S. France (Hungary) to N. Italy
    Surviving air units from the Atlantic:

    • (1 TAC must land in Holland) 2 TAC, 2 FTR to Holland

    • 2 FTR, 2 TAC, 2 STR to West Germany

    Place New Units:
    Art in Germany
    Inf in West Germany

    Collect income:
    $42 income
    $10 National objective
    $19 Capital gain
    $ x  lost to convoying of #93 by France
    = $71 - x

    Grand strategy here is to buy a 30-40ish fleet in the med to give the UK some real headaches for a change while still going for a late barbarossa. Not with the aim to capture Moscow, but to get to an axis ~200IPCs income total, reducing the allies to ~130-140IPCs. And that is without Egypt or any of the ME territories so if you can also grab those (if the UK for example succumbs to the pressure and looses Egypt)…
    Japan goes for a J4DOW and kills China + takes Russian territories from the get go. Siberians are forced to retreat with the minimum needed Japanese land units + the airforce. Rest of the IJA marches into China/towards India.

    Nothe that this G1 works optimally with LL (100% winchance everywhere). Still when rolling dice you have to be very unlucky to fail. I’ve got burned in France too but the odds for that are very low so when that happens I just immediately surrender and start the game over. After all, it is only Turn 1 so not a lot of time lost. Sadly enough, this is how A&A works: playing chess and let dice decide if you may take your opponent’s pieces…

    @Shin:

    I was casually sifting through some of the Tier 1 League games, and I noticed that taking Southern France on G1 seems almost universal.  I have been a bit hesitant with that, since I’ve been burned by having less forces in France, but it’s something I’ll be incorporating into my future games for certain now.

    As for buys, though, I’ve never really gotten the need for the Aircraft Carrier.  I guess it’s because I tend to not bother with a German fleet.  Sealion is a trap.  I like to either buy nothing, or go with two Bombers and a Sub.

    Buying a fleet with the aim to do SL is a trap indeed. Buying it in the med is just giving the UK major headache. BUT… only if you can agree with the Japanese they wait with their DOW. With an early US entry a German fleetbuy in the med is definately not optimal. Alternative is to buy a fleet in #113 and then take Gibraltar with it G2 but once again, this only works with a late US Entry. Because a #113 fleet is more easily cut out of action (blocked) by the UK anyway, I prefer a G2 buy in Southern France :-).


  • 2018 2017 2015

    YG, I think you should pull back a little and first discuss over-arching Axis strategies before jumping through the looking glass at specific piece moves.  One thing I’ve found with inexperienced players is they want to know what pieces to move, with little consideration to strategy.  Or they’ll know a move is good without realizing why it is so.
    If you lay the foundation of solid strategy, they can then determine what’s best for them on any particular G1.
    First, a Germany player must consider what their goals are, and how they’re going to go about them.

    • What is your Russia strategy?  Are you going to buy all land units and plow into Moscow, knowing that you must contend with Allied landings at some point?  Do you slow down your assault, shaving some money off towards a navy?  Is the navy meant to last, or merely a distraction?  Are you going to purchase additional factories to help the Russia front (Romania, Finland), or march from Berlin?  Are you going to deal with the Russian navy, as little as it is?  Will you maintain a fleet East of Denmark to help move troops to the Russia front via transports?

    • What is your UK strategy?  Do you want to keep Operation SeaLion open through a naval purchase Rd 1, with a Rd 2 all transport buy?  Are you going to clear out their starting navy in SZ110 & 111?  Or are you going to let them regroup, and plan on countering any amphibious assaults with counter-attacks from Paris and Western Germany?  Do you plan on trying to convoy the UK with subs?  It could turn into a cat-and-mouse with destroyers and subs, so expect a constant drain of resources from the Russian front.

    • What is your strategy for the Med?  Are you going to land planes in Southern Italy to help scramble for the expected Taranto attack on the Italian battleship and cruiser?  Are you going to soften Yugoslavia and retreat to Romania or take it for Germany?  Will you leave Southern France to Italy, or do you plan on deploying naval units to help Italy take Egypt?

    I love the game because of its complexity.  There are many safe opening moves,  all that are very different.  Barring “risky” moves that see low odds of winning (70ish) with only a few pieces in the battle, like a G1 attack on Russia, there are still many variations.

    Another factor to keep in mind is what is your overall Axis strategy?  Are you going for a European win with Japan being on the defensive and keeping the US out of the war?  Are both sides going all-out and Japan attacks J1 or J2?

    When the US enters the war, Germany must be prepared for the possibility of naval units in the Atlantic, threatening landings on any coastal area.  The sooner the US is in the war, the more naval pressure you’ll feel from the US.  Even if they buy all Pacific, you’ll likely be seeing a transport or two landing in Africa.  Is Germany going to plan for and react, or ignore?  If you don’t do an initial naval buy, then on Rd 3 decide the US fleet will be a problem, they’ve got a substantial headstart.

    So for each posted opening, it would be helpful for a 1-2 sentence explanation of what your strategy is.  “With this summary, I’m going after Russia, but only after the UK fleet is cleared up.”  or “All in vs Russia, Allied landings be damned!”


  • Customizer

    Hey Black Elk,
    Snicker, snicker. Sorry, I just have to laugh a bit that you didn’t know fully how mechs worked. After all the time you have spent playing. Still, I can’t laugh TOO much because I have come across things like that. I had been playing something a certain way for a long time only to find out I had been doing it wrong. Well, I’m glad I could straighten things out for you. Also, I strongly recommend allowing mechs to blitz by themselves as well. I don’t think an armored halftrack full of angry infantry need to be escorted by a tank to take over enemy territory that is unoccupied by enemy units.

    By the way, I have a question regarding the G1 move and I would like to hear some opinions.
    Here is the situation:
    Sea Zone 111 – Germany moves the sub from SZ 124, Battleship from SZ 113, the fighter from Norway, a Stuka from W Germany and 1 bomber from Germany to Sea Zone 111. The UK decides not to scramble the Scotland fighter.
    During the first round of combat, Germany gets 2 hits while England gets 1 hit. Germany takes the soak hit on the Battleship and England takes the soak hit on it’s Battleship and loses the destroyer.
    Normally, Germany would retreat it’s naval units back to SZ 112, but this would leave a damaged Battleship and a Cruiser. So, Germany decides on a second round of combat.
    The German sub scores with it’s surprise strike and sinks the UK Cruiser. The remaining German units get 3 more hits, but the UK Battleship also gets a hit.
    Now since the Luftwaffe is of most importance to Germany, the UK hit must go to either the German submarine or the German battleship. Whichever unit survives will have to remain in SZ 111 with no protection.
    Do you take out a 6 IPC submarine and leave the damaged Battleship which will likely be targeted by UK air? Or do you kill the 20 IPC Battleship allowing the Submarine to survive knowing that it will take a UK destroyer in order to take the sub out?
    WHICH WOULD YOU DO?
    We ended up sinking the Battleship. While it seems stupid to lose a 20 IPC unit in favor of a 6 IPC unit, we thought the Battleship would just be sunk by British air and was really no longer any good to us. The sub could not only not be hit by planes, it could be used to convoy raid or something else. As it turned out, the UK destroyer in SZ 109 survived the G1 attack so it went up to SZ 111 along with the Scotland fighter and promptly sank the German sub without UK loss. At least the battleship might have also sunk the destroyer. Still, I thought it was a better idea to save the sub instead of the battleship. Especially if that dang DD in SZ 109 could have been killed G1.
    So what do you guys think?



  • @knp7765:

    bmarine
    SZ 109 = 1 submarine

    Attacking SZ 109 eliminates that UK transport which could go to Canada for more reinforcements or even take Holland which will likely be unguarded. Granted, it will be a small force easily overcome, but still a nuisance.

    Still, I thought it was a better idea to save the sub instead of the battleship. Especially if that dang DD in SZ 109 could have been killed G1.
    So what do you guys think?

    First off, I don’t quite understand the 109 attack. Sending one sub there invites a 4 scramble, which deletes your sub for a 1/3 chance of hitting the dd. The transport will die only if UK whiffs 1dd/4 fighters.

    Your hypothetical is interesting, but I personally think the battleship is the clear choice to keep. As you say, it’s likely the UK will hunt down whatever sea unit is left in 111 (remember, ~66% that the 109dd is alive), and keeping the bb gives you a much greater chance of killing either the 109dd or a UK fighter on defence. Also, ditching the bb makes Taranto a much easier decision for UK.



  • KNP,

    I agree with TheMethusela, a lone sub into 109 is a 1 roll shot with little chance of a second combat round, but my question about your Bismarck dilemma is… which battle did you do first, 111, or 109? of course it should have been 109 to first find out if your Sub could take out the destroyer or not, and only then would you be in a position to decide wether or not to remove your damaged Battleship or Sub during the 111 battle.

    Also, I prefer Mech Infantry towing 1 artillery unit each as a house rule that makes Mechs better.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    @Whackamatt:

    “All in vs Russia, Allied landings be damned!”

    Purchase New Units:
    1 Major Industrial Complex

    Combat Movement:
    z106 - 2 subs
    z91 - 2 subs
    z111 - 1 sub, 1 Battleship, 1 fighter, 1 stuka, 2 bombers (consider retreat depending on scramble and dice)
    France - 7 inf, 2 art, 3 tanks, 4 fighters, 4 tacs
    Yugoslavia - 1 inf from Romania; 6 inf, 2 art from Greater Southern Germany (retreat to Romania)

    Non-Combat Movement:
    Finland - 3 inf from Norway
    Bulgaria - 1 tank from Romania
    Poland - 3AA, 11inf, 3 art from Germany
    Poland - 1 inf from Denmark, 1 art from West Germany via tt z114–>z113–>z114
    Slovakia - 4 mechs, 5 tanks
    Romania - 2 inf from Slovakia (plus ~5inf, 2 art retreat from yugo)
    Southern Italy - land some planes
    Tobruk - land some planes
    West Germany - land remaining planes, 1 inf from Denmark
    z112 - cruiser if BB retreated

    Place New Units:
    Major IC in Romania

    Collect income:
    $66

    G2: build 10 fast units in Romania; DOW and march everything East, watch Bolsheviks run away; finish Yugo
    G3: build stuff to defend coast of France; walk in to seize ICs in Ukraine and Leningrad; kill everything



  • @Whackamatt:

    YG, I think you should pull back a little and first discuss over-arching Axis strategies before jumping through the looking glass at specific piece moves. One thing Ive found with inexperienced players is they want to know what pieces to move, with little consideration to strategy. Or theyll know a move is good without realizing why it is so.
    If you lay the foundation of solid strategy, they can then determine whats best for them on any particular G1.
    First, a Germany player must consider what their goals are, and how theyre going to go about them.

    What is your Russia strategy? Are you going to buy all land units and plow into Moscow, knowing that you must contend with Allied landings at some point? Do you slow down your assault, shaving some money off towards a navy? Is the navy meant to last, or merely a distraction? Are you going to purchase additional factories to help the Russia front (Romania, Finland), or march from Berlin? Are you going to deal with the Russian navy, as little as it is? Will you maintain a fleet East of Denmark to help move troops to the Russia front via transports?

    What is your UK strategy? Do you want to keep Operation SeaLion open through a naval purchase Rd 1, with a Rd 2 all transport buy? Are you going to clear out their starting navy in SZ110 & 111? Or are you going to let them regroup, and plan on countering any amphibious assaults with counter-attacks from Paris and Western Germany?Do you plan on trying to convoy the UK with subs? It could turn into a cat-and-mouse with destroyers and subs, so expect a constant drain of resources from the Russian front.

    What is your strategy for the Med? Are you going to land planes in Southern Italy to help scramble for the expected Taranto attack on the Italian battleship and cruiser? Are you going to soften Yugoslavia and retreat to Romania or take it for Germany? Will you leave Southern France to Italy, or do you plan on deploying naval units to help Italy take Egypt?

    I love the game because of its complexity. There are many safe opening moves, all that are very different. Barring risky moves that see low odds of winning (70ish) with only a few pieces in the battle, like a G1 attack on Russia, there are still many variations.

    Another factor to keep in mind is what is your overall Axis strategy? Are you going for a European win with Japan being on the defensive and keeping the US out of the war? Are both sides going all-out and Japan attacks J1 or J2?

    When the US enters the war, Germany must be prepared for the possibility of naval units in the Atlantic, threatening landings on any coastal area. The sooner the US is in the war, the more naval pressure youll feel from the US. Even if they buy all Pacific, youll likely be seeing a transport or two landing in Africa. Is Germany going to plan for and react, or ignore? If you dont do an initial naval buy, then on Rd 3 decide the US fleet will be a problem, theyve got a substantial headstart.

    So for each posted opening, it would be helpful for a 1-2 sentence explanation of what your strategy is. “With this summary, I’m going after Russia, but only after the UK fleet is cleared up.” or “All in vs Russia, Allied landings be damned!”

    I agree with everything your saying, however… I think it’s less pretentious to tell newbies how to conduct a solid turn 1, as opposed to telling them how to strategize in general. I have played with people who have claimed to be experienced, but when I play them… they attack 111, but not both (111,110), or they take a plane into France which I personally think is unnecessary because it gives the French AA Gun something to do. I was playing someone who brought 2 air units into France because he was greedy going after both Normandy and Southern France, and I said "why do you want to do that?.. the risk vs reward is not there and I have a great chance to take down at least 1 German air unit before the battle even begins?, well he went ahead with it… and I rolled snake eyes. Now I’m not a good player compared to those playing 3 games a week here online, and I admit that I have my own tunnel vision issues when it comes to overall strategies. However, I find the picture is much clearer for Germany after round 1, I can see what the Russians are planning with their purchases (aggressive, or passive), I can see how much the UK wants to invest in the defense of London, if they attempt Toranto and how that goes for them. Also, I prefer to allow my Japan teammate to do what they like and DOW how they wish. Also, I don’t have the info on how my dice went during my G1 purchase new units phase, so those are a few reasons why I wait until G2 to ultimately choose an overall strategy, or at least a direction that I should take. Another factor when making my youtube videos is that I only have 15 minutes to get my material across.


  • 2016 2015 '14

    I haven’t crunched the numbers, but I will say this.  After winning a game when the France attack failed (because my opponent was also attacking Southern France – I can’t even imagine also attacking Normandy), I started thinking about my G1 plan more, and it seems that sending every land unit available to France turn 1 seems to make more sense on every level, unless you have a purposes for taking that IC on turn one (for example, building some German ships G2 in the med in SZ93).

    Here’s why:

    If you are attacking Southern France and Normandy, even if you win every battle, you are gaining only 5 IPC’s in income extra for one turn (you’d have them on G2 anyway).  I bet that you will be losing at least one extra unit that you wouldn’t have lost had you just hit France on G1 and then the other territories on G2.  And, if you are losing 2 (or more than 2) then it is a net sum negative for the German player (in addition to the fact that you are now leaving yourself open to at least a 2% chance of losing the France battle).

    When it comes to G1, all I can say is overkill is good…  :mrgreen:

    Now, again, if you are planning to use Southern France on G2, that’s a different story, but I’m still not sure why you can’t just build those boats on G3…


  • 2017 2016 2015

    so we have operation “All in on Russia ,Allied landings be damned”      and operation"overkill is good", which could be the same thing.

    They both sound cool 🙂



  • @variance:

    @Whackamatt:

    “All in vs Russia, Allied landings be damned!”

    Purchase New Units:
    1 Major Industrial Complex

    Combat Movement:
    z106 - 2 subs
    z91 - 2 subs
    z111 - 1 sub, 1 Battleship, 1 fighter, 1 stuka, 2 bombers (consider retreat depending on scramble and dice)
    France - 7 inf, 2 art, 3 tanks, 4 fighters, 4 tacs
    Yugoslavia - 1 inf from Romania; 6 inf, 2 art from Greater Southern Germany (retreat to Romania)

    Non-Combat Movement:
    Finland - 3 inf from Norway
    Bulgaria - 1 tank from Romania
    Poland - 3AA, 11inf, 3 art from Germany
    Poland - 1 inf from Denmark, 1 art from West Germany via tt z114–>z113–>z114
    Slovakia - 4 mechs, 5 tanks
    Romania - 2 inf from Slovakia (plus ~5inf, 2 art retreat from yugo)
    Southern Italy - land some planes
    Tobruk - land some planes
    West Germany - land remaining planes, 1 inf from Denmark
    z112 - cruiser if BB retreated

    Place New Units:
    Major IC in Romania

    Collect income:
    $66

    G2: build 10 fast units in Romania; DOW and march everything East, watch Bolsheviks run away; finish Yugo
    G3: build stuff to defend coast of France; walk in to seize ICs in Ukraine and Leningrad; kill everything

    How do they land?


  • '14

    knp

    Hey Black Elk,
    Snicker, snicker.

    I know right?!  😄 Talk about embarrassing, though it wouldn’t be the first time something in the manual gave me the slip. Still that’s a pretty massive misreading on my part. I Can’t even tell you how many times I got stalled out a round driving in Russia, or using Japan to launch into China/against south east asia, trying to coordinate the armor with the mech for attacks. The way my buddy and I handled it the pairing 1:1 was strictly enforced, so when I saw it being done in tripleA, I just figured the opponent prefered a “mech always move 2 no matter what” style of play (similar to other tripleA games that included this Mech unit before the 1940 games ever even came out.) So in that case I figured we were defaulting to two moves and I might follow course. But I always thought this was unofficial. Insane!

    TheMethuselah

    First off, I don’t quite understand the 109 attack. Sending one sub there invites a 4 scramble, which deletes your sub for a 1/3 chance of hitting the dd. The transport will die only if UK whiffs 1dd/4 fighters.

    The way I interpret it, the reason to do this move is specifically to force the scramble here rather than in 110, where it would potentially be more damaging to Germany. Now it could be that your UK opponent has been burned off scrambling altogether, in which case it doesn’t matter. But if they are a scrambler, then I’ve seen instances where Germany loses half the luftwaffe in the 110 attack and UK preserves their fighters. If UK scrambles 110, with a brutal first round dud by G, and a decent first round hit by UK, Germany could lose a lot more TUV then they lose by forcing a sz 109 scramble. This is why I will sometimes bring the fighter from Holland to 109, since this guarantees a UK scramble, albeit at a cost of 16 total TUV to G to force UK’s hand, but then you come out much cleaner in sz 110. Again, this doesn’t matter if the UK player is the sort who avoids scrambling for fear of air losses, which isn’t uncommon to see.

    YG

    or they take a plane into France which I personally think is unnecessary because it gives the French AA Gun something to do.

    In my view bringing the Stuka into France is a solid move. I understand the reluctance to take a 1 in 6 risk that the AA gun will hit, but this play also activates the Stuka’s attack at 4 rather than 3, and there isn’t a whole lot else it can do, other than attack Yugoslavia. The way I play, bringing it into a Yugo attack does little good, since it increases the likelyhood of a sweep, where what I want is to do is Strafe, and then bounce as many Greater Southern Germany units to Romania as possible.

    This Romania bounce sets up a much better G2 option against the Russians, instead of forcing you to wait till G3. Waiting till G3 is probably better anyway, but this at least gives you a stronger forward option. Also the Stuka into the Yugo attack doesn’t do anything more against Taranto than the lone fighter would, since the AB in S. Italy maxes out at 3 air anyway. So I will always bring this unit into an attack on France. Sure if it gets shot down you’re pissed, but that only happens 1 out of every 6 attempts on average. Which are solid odds in my book.

    DizzKneeLand33

    I haven’t crunched the numbers, but I will say this.  After winning a game when the France attack failed (because my opponent was also attacking Southern France – I can’t even imagine also attacking Normandy)

    Again I understand how getting burned even one time in Paris, will encourage players to really pad this battle. But going all in on France (with the Stuka) is on average 13 units remaining vs 10 units on average remaining if you peel off units to attack S. France or Normandy. Both battles (All France, and France +Normandy or S. France) are still 99% chance for Germany to prevail. So its a difference of basically 3 more fodder lost on average, to take the extra gamble.

    Everything in France comes down to the first round of combat anyway, so you can still get screwed on hits regardless, no matter how much you throw at it. I think this parallels the W. Russia attack by the Russians in the Revised game, where the defenders hits were basically out of your control.

    If there is no plan for Normandy or S. France, then I agree, its not really worth doing just for the income. But if it is part of the plan, I don’t think the odds are so low to be totally against it, or that you can necessarily say its a foolhardy play. People take odds on Black Jack or Sports that are way worse than the odds on some of these battles, betting real money, so I kind of think it comes down to what sort of player you are dealing with. Not everyone want’s to be conservative and run their games with the least risk possible. Some players like to take a risk, provided the odds are in their favor. I think it would be hard to provide advice that fits every situation, but in terms of the broad outlines, I think advice on the water is going to be more important for new players than advice on how to handle France. The sea zones and the scrambling, where to land etc. I find that’s what trips a lot of people up, especially if they haven’t played a full game before.

    barney

    so we have operation “All in on Russia, Allied landings be damned” and operation “overkill is good”, which could be the same thing.

    They both sound cool 🙂

    Haha I dig it! Operation Overkill

    YG

    Also, I prefer Mech Infantry towing 1 artillery unit each as a house rule that makes Mechs better.

    I remember we had rules that joined Mech to Artillery like this in BigWorld 1942 (a tripleA variant I made with WanderingHead). This game had Mech about 5 years before they were introduced as a standard unit in normal Axis and Allies games. Probably earlier now that I think about it. In various drafts of the BigWorld1942 game, the Mech infantry unit was essentially a land transport, and it worked by providing a movement bonus to infantry or artillery, i.e. it could tow 1 of either along with it while it moved 2 spaces.

    Later they had Mech that moved 3 spaces, though I provided no input on that. The inclusion of China and 3 space Mech, is when I stopped working on BigWorld. Both ideas I could never really sign off on. But I do remember the earlier Mech worked like a land transport over 2 spaces, and could haul infantry or artillery along with it 1:1.

    There were some other Mech rules I recall exploring too, but none of them looked like the Mech unit we see in G40. This was around 2004 as I recall in the Revised Era. Many unoffical tripleA ideas from that time seem to have found their way into official games later on, by the power of osmosis I guess 😉 But sometimes aspects of the ideas get lost in the translation. Like how to handle Italy in an Axis and Allies game comes immediatley to mind heheh. I suppose in the 1940 games, the idea was to have a unit that paired mainly with armor, though originally our ideas for mech were that “half-tracks” gave a movement bonus to normal infantry. The price there was 4 ipcs to match artillery, but it had different complimentary uses, all of which related to infantry/artillery rather than armor.

    Gah! I still can’t believe the Mech can move 2 into an attack over a friendly territory OOB in 1940! That’s such a huge revelation for Axis strategy! 😄


  • 2016 2015 '10

    @DizzKneeLand33:

    I haven’t crunched the numbers, but I will say this.  After winning a game when the France attack failed (because my opponent was also attacking Southern France – I can’t even imagine also attacking Normandy), I started thinking about my G1 plan more, and it seems that sending every land unit available to France turn 1 seems to make more sense on every level, unless you have a purposes for taking that IC on turn one (for example, building some German ships G2 in the med in SZ93).

    Agreed.  If Germany is already attacking 110,111, France, and Yugo…then why spread even more thin by attacking Southern France?  Just diverting 2 mech 1 arm from France to Southern France decreases the average TUV swing in France by about 2.5.  If we also divert the tact bomber from France to Southern France, the TUV swing in France decreases another 1.5.

    In addition Germany probably loses at least 1 (valuable) mech to take Southern France.

    On the plus side, Germany gets the +2, plus the opportunity to build med navy on G2.

    I agree it is useful for Germany to hold Southern France but so far I’m not prepared to sacrifice extra units to take it a turn early.


  • '14

    Well, I think everyone is pretty much in agreement, that if you don’t want to take any risk in the land battles, then don’t bother attacking anything other than the French Capital. The only thing I’d say, is that if you are inclined towards taking some gambles, and have a strategy that involves G2 naval options in the Med, then it is definitely possible to take S. France without throwing the game. For some people having access to a German factory in the Med is worth the cost of a Mech or two traded as fodder in the France battle. I see the point you’re making though. For most types of games, Germany can conquer Normandy and Southern France in the second round with relative ease, at very little cost. Of course that is also one more round that these units are tied down in the West, instead of driving back East, which might be a factor in deciding to attack early rather than delay. Conquering Normandy G1 gives you that Harbour,  which would be the only reason to go for it, and then only if there was some kind of break out planned.

    “All in vs Russia, Allied landings be damned!”

    For an early DoW against Russia game that includes a factory buy, I like a minor in Romania first, then upgrade. This costs a total of 32 ipcs rather than 30, but requires less up front. It gives you the option to delay the Major until G2 if you want, and still get 3 units in Romania in the meantime. Allows you to cover against UK with a bomber and a sub. You can also DoW on G2 this way or later if you want, which gives a chance for your Armor and Mech to transit back to the east out of France.

    Perhaps just as effective, is a strategy that has you throwing infantry stacks east out of Germany every round. Since for the same cost as a Major you can push an extra stack of 6 infantry 3 artillery against the East, even if it ends up taking a round longer to move into position, you’d have more total units on the ground. Or you could still do that thing with the minor to upgrade, just a round later, and have some ground in the area to support it.

    If going for a factory or a drive on the East, whatever the plan, I imagine Bulgaria on G1 would be helpful, rather than giving it to Italy. Though something about Bulgaria activated by the Italians still intrigues me. Since Italy is so broke and raided, and this gives them a way to field 12 ipcs worth of ground units right away to help with eastern can openers  😄


  • '14

    ps. For tripleA players, a conservative version of the Double Bomber buy (save below…)

    Here Germany does only the major priorities:
    No Politics, No tech etc. Purchases 1 sub and 2 bombers.

    Attacks sz 91, sz 110, sz 111, sz 106, France and Yugo (Romania bounce)

    I consider sz 91 a priority attack. Notice that the lone sub vs lone cruiser is 50% odds to Germany, always with 1 unit remaining to the side that prevails. This has to do with the fact the the cruiser doesn’t get to fire back if its sunk, and the fact that the cruiser only has a 50/50 chance to hit on defense if the sub duds, which means you can often take a second shot against it. So this is why I favor sz 91 attack. It’s like flipping a coin, but if you win the toss, you can potentially save Italy, which is huge. Basically I think it should always be run, since the payoff for the risk is substantial.

    In the save I left the Stuka in Poland. You could bring it either to Yugo like YG does, or into the Paris attack like I prefer. The attack on Paris is already 100% odds with 12 units remaining on average if you don’t bring the Stuka, 100% with 13 units remaining if you do bring the Stuka. That makes the Stuka’s participation basically a non-issue, but I bring it just because I like to hit at that 4. I totally see the logic of not risking AAA fire though.

    Since you didn’t buy a carrier, its assumed that the German Stuka attacking sz110 would be taken as an early casualty to avoid having to land in Holland. On Non-Com fly the fighter from Yugo to Southern Italy to max out the AB against Taranto. Arrange the rest of the Air to cover the Kattegat straits. Position the remaining ground as desired, depending on your plans for Russia, activating the Pro-Axis neutrals in Finland for sure, and Bulgaria recommended.

    Below the conservative save, is a save that I would consider “the gambling man’s” version of a similar buy. This to serve as a point of reference, the biggest gamble I can imagine taking before diving off the deep end completely.

    It is modeled on KNPs idea to split 1 sub into each sz, for the max potential payoff, at the highest risk. Note that the odds in sz 110 are well above 90% if UK doesn’t scramble, but if UK does scramble the odds on German victory are basically tanked. sz 109 therefore is only ever a bait play. It forces UK to decide between scrambling 109, and losing the 110 fleet at next to no cost for G, or scrambling 110 and losing the transport and destroyer. That’s why I think its an interesting play. Not because G is going to win it, but because it puts pressure on the UK scramble decision. In this case G can strafe 110 if they scramble and hope to come out clean. Normandy and S. France are both 80% Paris is 90%
    Whether such an opening is worth the risk, who can say? The pay off would be fairly huge, but the chances of any one battle going awry could be crushing. Still, could be a lot of fun if you’re feeling dicey haha 🙂

    G1 double bomber buy.tsvg
    G1 high risk, double bomber.tsvg


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