Rethinking Air units simulating historical air-to-air combat: 2 planes carrier


  • 2017 '16

    The recent DK’s and Narvik’s thread makes me think about another way to simulate inside the regular combat phase air-to-air combat. No special air phase is needed. The aircraft carrier stay the same and hold only 2 aicraft units.

    See also my most recent thread for more planes in game with 3 planes aircraft carriers.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34676.msg1338630#msg1338630

    The principles I used as an historical guidelines are…
    Fgs and TcBs must have their own capacities:
    Fighter being cheaper, smaller, faster, weaker against ground targets but always have the better hand in dogfight against any bombers (TcB or StB).

    Tactical Bomber being a costlier, bigger, slower and heavier hitter against ground targets but clumsier against Fighters in air-to-air combat.

    In addition, attacking Fighters should be less effective than defending ones. At least, in some specific situations, such as similar to Battle of Britain.
    And this principle, I think, should be maintain for TcB: at least a defending TcB should not be more effective than an attacking one.
    Because, the same reasoning applied to TcBs and pilots about distant targets, less fuel, less time in the air above targets, more tired pilots, less accurate bombing, etc.

    Here are the aircraft units combat values and cost:

    Fighter
    Attack 2-3
    Defense 3-4
    Move 4
    Cost 8
    Air combat unit: All hits are allocated to aircraft units first, if any available
    Air Supremacy bonus: +1 Attack/Defense when no enemy’s aircraft
    Air Superiority bonus:EDIT: +1 Attack/Defense when fighting against only enemy’s aircrafts.
    Combined Arms bonus: gives +1 Attack when paired 1:1 with 1 Tactical Bomber unit, if TcB is able to attack Ground or Naval units or defend against them. EDIT: See edit below.

    SBR escort mission: Attack @2
    Can intercept in SBR: Defense @3.
    Carrier operation: up to two units can be on board a fleet Carrier (max.: 2 units of any kind per fleet Carrier)
    1 Fighter unit can land on a newly captured territory, if there is still 1 movement point left. (Max: 1 Fg or 1 TcB)

    Tactical Bomber
    Attack 3-4
    Defense 3-4
    Move 4
    Cost 9
    Combined Arms bonus: +1 Attack when paired 1:1 with a Fighter and, also, attacking or defending against any Ground or Naval units.
    Said otherwise: if there is only enemy’s aircrafts units remaining in a SZ or a Territory, Combined Arms bonus doesn’t apply.
    EDIT: this is too confusing during combat rounds and allocations of casualty. A regular combined arms is already enough.

    Air supremacy bonus: +1 Attack / +1 Defense when no enemy’s aircraft

    Combined Arms Bonus in Tank support, Tactical Bomber as a “Tank Buster”:
    **_Gives +1 Attack / +1 Defense to any Tank paired 1:1 with, if it is also attacking or defending against any Ground units.
    But, said otherwise: if there is only enemy’s aircrafts units remaining in a Territory, this Combined Arms bonus no more apply.

    Air Supremacy bonus can be added to this combined Arms Bonus.
    In this case, a lone Tactical Bomber reach Attack @4 or Defense @4 while the paired Tank reach also Attack @4 or Defense @4.
    However, as 1:1 imply, it is not possible to pair TcB to both Fighter and Tank.

    But, if Tactical Bomber is alone and didn’t have Air Supremacy, it can still be paired with Tank, giving a +1 bonus to Tank.

    Tactical Bombing Raid: Attack @2
    TBR damage: 1D6 on Air Base or Naval Base
    On SBR can also do escort mission: Attack @2

    Carrier operation: up to two units can be on board a fleet Carrier (max.: 2 units of any kind per fleet Carrier)
    1 TacB unit can land on a newly captured territory, if there is still 1 movement point left. (Max: 1 TcB or 1 Fg)

    Strategical Bomber
    Attack 4 or 1
    Defense 1
    Move 6
    Cost 10
    Naval combat restriction against aircrafts: when no more enemy’s warships, combat value get down to Attack 1
    Said otherwise: if there is only enemy’s aircrafts units remaining in a SZ, then Attack factor is reduced to @1.
    Strategical Bombing Raid: Attack @1
    SBR damage: 1D6+2 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base

    The Naval combat restriction will limit somehow the aberration of Bombers doing high Attack @4 against Fighters above a Sea-Zone.
    Now in such situations, aircrafts will be fighting each others with more logical values, same as SBR:
    Fighter: Attack 2 Defense 3
    Tactical Bomber: Attack 2 Defense 0
    Strategic Bomber: Attack 1 Defense 0

    DEFENSIVE MANEUVERS allowed for all 3 types of aircraft:

    • Aerial Retreat for attacking planes (all aircrafts can retreat while letting ground units pursuing battle),

    • Limited Aerial Withdrawal of 1 space in a friendly territory after first combat round for one defending plane up to 1 StB or 1 TcB or 1 Fighter.


    Another point, Carrier operations combat values will be similar to OOB situations ranging between A6 D8, A7 D7 and A6 D6:
    2 Fighters: A4-6 D6-8 but always target planes, can reach A6 D8 in Air Supremacy conditions
    1 Fighter & 1 TacB: A2-3 D3-4 + A3-4 D3-4 = A6-7 D6-8
    2 TacBs: A6-8 D6-8, can reach A8 or D8 in Air Supremacy conditions.

    As you can see, all the Combined Arms and Air Supremacy rules were necessary to keep up with the high value of OOB Fg and TacB units.


    Now this can rise the debate about such high SBR values, does an increased risk to loose valuable 12 IPCs unit still worth doing SBR?

    Does Fighters and Tactical Bombers at 8 IPCs is cheap enough to compensate the higher attrition rate coming with such high combat values of Fighter units always targeting planes first?

    With a Fighter unit with such a high defense @3 against all aircrafts, is this too overpowered for regular combat over land territories?
    I think so, after a few calculations.
    All bombers will be very vulnerable against Fighters in regular combat.

    Any SBR against such foe, on a 1 StB vs 1 Fg even in this modified situation (2D6 damage, 10 IPCs) gives odds of losing for the attacker (-1.583 IPCs damage /StB making a raid) while the OOB G40 SBR is clearly positive toward attacker (+ 1.18 IPCs damage/StB making a raid).

    I decided to lower by 2 IPCs the cost of StB (as it is the cases for Fg, and TcBs)
    And also because in this game, there will be more air units destruction.
    I kept the usual OOB damage because IC, AB and NB with no air cover will still be as vulnerable as OOB.

    1/6 of crashing StB * 12 IPCs= - 2 IPCs
    5/6 of making 5.5 IPCs damage = + 4.583 IPCs
    Results: + 2.583 IPCs / SBR run.


    1/6 killing 1 Fg at 10 IPCs= + 1.667 IPCs
    Sum: + 2.583 + 1.667 = + 4.25 IPCs/ SBR run

    In this situation, the odds are better for attacker (OOB odds: 2.583 IPCs/SBR run) :
    1/6 of crashing StB * 10 IPCs= - 1.667 IPCs
    5/6 of making 5.5 IPCs damage = + 4.583 IPCs
    Results: + 2.916 IPCs / SBR run.


    1/6 killing 1 Fg at 8 IPCs= + 1.333 IPCs
    Sum: + 2.916 + 1.333 = + 4.25 IPCs/ SBR run

    15/36 (3/6 *5/6) of bombing IC at 7 IPCs average (2D6 damage) = +2.917 IPCs
    of bombing IC at 5.5 IPCs average (1D6+2 damage) = +2.292 IPCs

    21/36 (3/6 * 6/6 + 3/6*1/6) of crashing StBs at 10 IPCs = - 5.833 IPCs
    Same odds of crashing StBs at 12 IPCs = - 7 IPCs


    Results for 12 IPCs StB at 2D6 dmg (vs 10 IPCs Fg): (Sum: + 2.583 + 1.667 = + 4.25)

    • 4.25 IPCs - 7 IPCs = -2.75 IPCs/ SBR run.

    Results for 10 IPCs StB at 2D6 dmg (vs 8 IPCs Fg): (+2.917 IPCs + 1.333 IPCs = + 4.25)

    • 4.25 IPCs - 5.833 IPCs = -1.583 IPCs/ SBR run.

    Results for 12 IPCs StB damage 1D6+2 (5.5 avg) = (+2.292 IPCs + 1.667 IPCs = + 3.959)

    • 3.959 IPCs - 7 IPCs = -3.041 IPCs/ SBR run.

    Results for 10 IPCs StB damage 1D6+2 (5.5 avg) = (+2.292 IPCs + 1.333 IPCs = + 3.625)

    • 3.625 IPCs - 5.833 IPCs = -2.208 IPCs/ SBR run._**


  • Don’t know if it’s really accurate.
    Most air to air combat happens in the same time as the land combat.
    Except rare case like Battle of Britain, Crete and Malta.

    AL


  • 2017 '16

    @crusaderiv:

    Don’t know if it’s really accurate.
    Most air to air combat happens in the same time as the land combat.
    Except rare case like Battle of Britain, Crete and Malta.

    AL

    That’s an aspect of history I never thought to consider.
    This point can be a reason to prefer a specific unit which can directly hit planes (all battles, land or air, in the same combat phase) instead of having a separate air-to-air combat phase.


  • 2017 '16

    I revised the first post.
    All planes get a cost redux: -2 IPCs for Fg, TcB and StB. So the 1 IPC increment is kept.

    When there is no enemy’s plane,
    Fighters get an Air supremacy bonus +1 on Offense and Defense.
    Tactical Bombers get an Air Supremacy bonus of +2 on Offense and Defense.

    Now Fighter are the best defensive unit and two can be put on board a carrier (keeping a similar defensive value as OOB (Def 8 ) when winning the Air Supremacy with 2 Fighters.
    Tactical Bomber get the highest offensive and defensive bonus when paired with Fighter.
    Tactical Bomber can also give a +1 bonus when supporting Tank units.

    Making both paired Air Units very dangerous foes with high Off. Def. values compared to a Destroyer, still the sea-fodder.

    When Tactical B attack against only defending Fg units, they cannot use their Combined Arms bonus and remains:
    Attack @2 while Fighters keeps their better defense @3.

    In the reverse situation, when Tactical Bombers are defending against Fg units only, they cannot use it either:
    Fighter attack @2 while TcB keeps their defense @2.
    TcB being equal against attacking Fgs can be interpretated as the advantage of patrolling home territory while the attacking Fighters have not the same latitude as if they were defending.

    So, in all situations we can agree that there will be no more aberration between units, everything will be at is right place with the right interactions.

    Finally, this one House Rules simulating Air Combat is the easier to introduce (than the other with 3 places Carrier) because their no need to add units on the set-up, the combat values in Naval are mostly kept (with Combined Arms or Air Supremacy bonus) and there is no special Combined Arms (Tactical Bomber with Fighter or Tank is kept but slightly changed).

    I think also that SBR scaled values from 3 to 2 to 1 worth the try and clearly picture the higher Air Combat Superiority of Fighter unit (which had disappeared in G40 OOB) :
    Fighter (8 IPCs) : Attack 2 Defense 3
    Tactical Bomber (9 IPCs): Attack 2 Defense 0
    Strategic Bomber (10 IPCs): Attack 1 Defense 0


  • 2017 '16

    If such a Fighter defense @3 against planes seems too high, here is a weaker Fighter unit Defending @2 with special bonus to rise it up @3 in some very specific situations.
    This is the case in Naval operations when Air Supremacy bonus is gained with a Carrier present, Fgs can reach the combat values of OOB Fg: A3 D4 C10.

    FIGHTER
    Attack 2 (3) (Air Supremacy)
    Defense 2-3 (4) (Air Supremacy with CAG or AAA bonus)
    Move 4
    Cost 8
    Hit 1
    Air combat unit: All hits are allocated to aircraft units first, if any available

    Air Supremacy Bonus: +1 Attack and +1 Defense when no enemy’s aircraft

    Carrier Air Patrol (CAP) Bonus: +1 Defense for up to 2 Fighters if associated to 1 friendly Aircraft Carrier (as long as it is unsunken at the beginning of the combat round)

    Fighter as part of an extended Air Defense System:
    Extended Air Defense Bonus: +1 Defense for up to 3 Fighters when linked to a single AAA unit.

    Air Base Defense Bonus: +1 Defense for all Fighter units if protecting a territory with an operational Air Base,
    (or 1 Fg for a Victory City if playing 1942.2)
    +1 Defense to up to 3 scrambled Fighters from an operational Air Base.

    Combined Arms bonus: gives +2 Attack / +2 Defense when paired 1:1 with 1 Tactical Bomber unit, if TcB is able to attack Ground or Naval units or defend against them.
    This Combined Arms bonus can be added to the +1 defense Carrier Air Group Bonus for Fighter.

    Only this unit can intercept in SBR or TBR***
    SBR escort mission: Attack @2
    Can intercept in SBR: Defense @2 or @3 for all Fgs if an operational Air Base is present or +1 Defense for up to 3 Fighters per any AAA unit associated with.

    Carrier Operations: up to two units can be on board a fleet Carrier (max.: 2 units of any kind per fleet Carrier)

    1 Fighter unit can land on a newly captured territory, if there is still 1 movement point left. (Max: 1 Fg or 1 TcB)

    TACTICAL BOMBER
    Attack 2-4 (4) (Air Supremacy) SBR @1
    Defense 2-4 (4) (Air Supremacy)
    Move 4
    Cost 9
    Hit 1
    Combined Arms Bonus with Fighter Support, Tactical Bomber as a less vulnerable “Dive Bomber” or “Torpedo Bomber” when escorted:
    +2 Attack / +2 Defense when paired 1:1 with a Fighter and, also, attacking or defending against any Ground or Naval units.
    Said otherwise: if there is only enemy’s aircrafts units remaining in a SZ or a Territory, Combined Arms Bonus doesn’t apply.

    Air Supremacy Bonus Tactical Bomber as a “Dive Bomber”:
    +2 Attack / +2 Defense when no enemy’s aircraft present

    Combined Arms Bonus in Tank support, Tactical Bomber as a “Tank Buster”:
    **_Gives +1 Attack / +1 Defense to any Tank paired 1:1 with, if it is also attacking or defending against any Ground units.
    Said otherwise: if there is only enemy’s aircrafts units remaining in a Territory, this Combined Arms Bonus no more apply.
    Air Supremacy Bonus can be added to this Combined Arms Bonus for Tank.
    In this case, a lone TcB reach Attack @4 or Defense @4 while the paired Tank reach also Attack @4 or Defense @4.
    However, as 1:1 imply, it is not possible to pair Tactical Bomber to both Fighter and Tank.
    Of course, in this case, it is always better to be paired to Fighter and gets +2 A/D.
    But, if TcBs are alone on their side and doesn’t have Air Supremacy, they can still be paired with Tanks, giving Tank a +1 bonus A/D.

    Tactical Bombing Raid: Attack @1
    TBR damage: 1D6 on Air Base or Naval Base
    On SBR can also do escort mission: Attack @1
    (In this case, TcBs are not subject to IC’s AAA fire.)

    1 TacB unit can land on a newly captured territory, if there is still 1 movement point left. (Max: 1 TcB or 1 Fg)

    Carrier Operations: up to two units can be on board a fleet Carrier (max.: 2 units of any kind per Fleet Carrier)


    STRATEGICAL BOMBER
    Attack 4 or 1, SBR @1
    Defense 1
    Move 6
    Cost 10
    Hit 1

    Naval combat restriction against aircrafts:
    when no more enemy’s warships, combat value get down to Attack 1
    Said otherwise: if there is only enemy’s aircrafts units remaining in a SZ, then Attack factor is reduced to SBR attack value: @1.

    Strategical Bombing Raid (SBR): Attack @1
    SBR damage: 1D6+2 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base

    Now, aircrafts in SBR will be fighting each others with more logical values:
    Fighter: Attack 2 Defense 2 or (3) (with operational AB or AAA present)
    Tactical Bomber: Attack 1 Defense 0
    Strategic Bomber: Attack 1 Defense 0

    DEFENSIVE MANEUVERS allowed for all 3 types of aircraft:

    • Aerial Retreat for attacking planes (all aircrafts can retreat while letting ground units pursuing battle), after the first combat round,

    • Limited Aerial Withdrawal of 1 space in a friendly territory after first combat round for defending planes up to 1 StB or 1 TcB or 1 Fg.

    ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY
    Attack 0
    Defense 0
    NCM 1
    Cost 5
    1 hit
    On first round, get up to three preemptive @1 vs up to 3 planes whichever the lesser.
    Combined Arms Bonus with Fighter:
    Gives +1 Defense to up to 3 Fighter units per AAA unit paired with.

    FLEET CARRIER G40
    Attack 0
    Defense 2
    Move 2
    Cost 16
    Hit 2
    Hold up to 2 planes : 2 Fgs / or 1 Fg and 1 TcB / or 2 TcBs.

    Combined Arms Bonus:
    Carrier Air Patrol (CAP) Gives +1 Defense to up to 2 Fighter units if paired with.

    FLEET CARRIER 1942.2
    Attack 1
    Defense 2
    Move 2
    Cost 14
    Hit 1
    Hold up to 2 planes : 2 Fgs / or 1 Fg and 1 TcB / or 2 TcBs.

    Combined Arms Bonus:
    Carrier Air Patrol (CAP) Gives +1 Defense to up to 2 Fighter units if paired with.

    ESCORT CARRIER
    Attack 0
    Defense 1
    Move 2
    Cost 11
    Hit 1
    Hold 1 plane : 1 Fg OR 1 TcB.
    ASV: Anti-Sub Vessel, same as Destroyer against Submarine

    Combined Arms Bonus:
    Carrier Air Patrol (CAP) Gives +1 Defense to a Fighter unit if pairedwith.


    The Naval Combat Restriction will limit somehow the aberration of Strategic Bombers doing high Attack @4 against Fighters (defending at 2 or 3, in this HR) above a Sea-Zone.

    Another point, Carrier operations combat values will be similar to OOB situations ranging between A6 D8, A7 D7 and A6 D6:
    2 Fighters: A4-6 D4-6-8 but always target planes, can reach A6 D8 in Air Supremacy conditions
    1 Fighter & 1 TacB: A2-3 D2-3-4 + A2-4 D2-4 = A6-7 D6-7-8, can reach A7 D8 in Air Supremacy conditions
    2 TacBs: A4-8 D4-8, can reach A8 or D8 in Air Supremacy conditions.

    As you can see, all the Combined Arms and Air Supremacy rules were necessary to keep up with the high value of OOB Fg and TacB units.
    ___________________________________________**


  • Customizer

    Hello Baron,
    You wanted me to tell more about our HR for Heavy Bombers. Okay, here goes:
    I can’t remember if it was Anniversary or the 1940 games that came up with the idea that Heavy Bombers roll 2 dice but only keep the best result during combat and strategic bombing raids. Well, we all thought that was simply ridiculous for 2 main reasons.
    1 > Rolling 2 dice and keeping the best result sounds more like a “smart” weapon. That is basically giving you 2 chances to get a hit in combat or cause more damage in an SBR. In WW2 they didn’t really have that kind of technology yet, or at least it wasn’t very common. We just didn’t feel this fit the concept of a “Heavy” bomber.
    2 > “Heavy” bombers are just that, HEAVY! They are bigger planes capable of carrying many more bombs than regular, or medium bombers. Therefore, we feel they should cause more damage. Thus you roll 2 dice per bomber and use both results. You can possibly get 2 hits in combat and get lots of damage on SBRs.

    We don’t think this is so overpowering especially when you consider what you have to invest just to get Heavy Bombers. You still have to pay for research dice, try for a breakthrough, then when you do get a breakthrough, hope you can roll another 6 to get heavy bombers. As any A&A player well knows, you can spend a lot of IPCs on research then end up getting Radar or Super Subs when you want those Heavy Bombers. Even if you use Tech Tokens so you don’t lose your money if you don’t get a breakthrough, it can still take several rounds just to get a breakthrough, let alone the one that you are wanting.
    So, if you have to go through all that payment and frustration trying just to get Heavy Bombers, once you get them they shouldn’t be nerfed by only letting them have the result of a single die. That’s basically just doubling their chance to get a hit. Just not good enough.
    Also, Heavy Bombers still have to deal with interceptors and AA Guns, so they could get shot down and never get to roll.
    Also, you are still rolling dice for a result. Having Heavy bombers does not mean an automatic 2 hits in combat or 12 damage in SBRs. You could just as easily roll 2 5s or 6s in combat. You could also roll snake-eyes on an SBR. In that case, you would be getting less damage than a “regular” bomber rolling a 1 because with regular bombers you add 2 damage to the single die roll. We do not add the +2 to the die rolls of Heavy Bombers because we figured getting to add 2 dice was more often than not heavy enough.
    At one point, we briefly considered taking Heavy Bombers back to Classic rules, where they got 3 dice per bomber but quickly realized making them that powerful could be a game breaker. Not sure that any other nation could withstand that strong an attacking force.

    There is no change in cost, bombers are still 12 IPCs.
    If someone rolls for tech and gets Heavy Bombers, then they do tend to purchase more bombers and carry out more SBRs than they normally would. Whether or not the enemy ICs are protected by fighters is usually not a consideration except that the bombing player will usually try to make sure they have some escort fighters to protect their bombers if the enemy has possible interceptors.
    In some cases, I have seen someone get Heavy Bombers and it really bumps up their game. They continuously max out their enemy’s factories and bases while they build up an invasion force so they end up easily moving in.
    In other cases, I have seen getting Heavy Bombers become a detriment. They start buying more bombers when they may need other types of units and end up losing ground or maybe losing control of certain sea areas.

    I will say one other thing about this. Even with our HR making Heavy Bombers stronger than the OOB rules, we rarely see them in our games because we rarely roll for tech. It’s just too hard to squeeze out IPCs for a chance at a good tech when you have to keep up unit purchases to try and overcome your opponent or keep them from overwhelming you.


  • 2017 '16

    Thank you very much.
    Very interesting all the story.

    At first, I thought that your regular bombers were 2D6 instead of 1D6+2, I was wrong. I missed the “heavy” noticed.
    It is heavy bombers which get 2D6.
    It is still a House Rule, but not the big change I first thought.

    This 2D6 heavy bombers makes sense when you invest a lot in Technological development.


  • Customizer

    @knp7765:

    Hello Baron,
    You wanted me to tell more about our HR for Heavy Bombers. Okay, here goes:
    I can’t remember if it was Anniversary or the 1940 games that came up with the idea that Heavy Bombers roll 2 dice but only keep the best result during combat and strategic bombing raids. Well, we all thought that was simply ridiculous for 2 main reasons.
    1 > Rolling 2 dice and keeping the best result sounds more like a “smart” weapon. That is basically giving you 2 chances to get a hit in combat or cause more damage in an SBR. In WW2 they didn’t really have that kind of technology yet, or at least it wasn’t very common. We just didn’t feel this fit the concept of a “Heavy” bomber.
    2 > “Heavy” bombers are just that, HEAVY! They are bigger planes capable of carrying many more bombs than regular, or medium bombers. Therefore, we feel they should cause more damage. Thus you roll 2 dice per bomber and use both results. You can possibly get 2 hits in combat and get lots of damage on SBRs.

    We don’t think this is so overpowering especially when you consider what you have to invest just to get Heavy Bombers. You still have to pay for research dice, try for a breakthrough, then when you do get a breakthrough, hope you can roll another 6 to get heavy bombers. As any A&A player well knows, you can spend a lot of IPCs on research then end up getting Radar or Super Subs when you want those Heavy Bombers. Even if you use Tech Tokens so you don’t lose your money if you don’t get a breakthrough, it can still take several rounds just to get a breakthrough, let alone the one that you are wanting.
    So, if you have to go through all that payment and frustration trying just to get Heavy Bombers, once you get them they shouldn’t be nerfed by only letting them have the result of a single die. That’s basically just doubling their chance to get a hit. Just not good enough.
    Also, Heavy Bombers still have to deal with interceptors and AA Guns, so they could get shot down and never get to roll.
    Also, you are still rolling dice for a result. Having Heavy bombers does not mean an automatic 2 hits in combat or 12 damage in SBRs. You could just as easily roll 2 5s or 6s in combat. You could also roll snake-eyes on an SBR. In that case, you would be getting less damage than a “regular” bomber rolling a 1 because with regular bombers you add 2 damage to the single die roll. We do not add the +2 to the die rolls of Heavy Bombers because we figured getting to add 2 dice was more often than not heavy enough.
    At one point, we briefly considered taking Heavy Bombers back to Classic rules, where they got 3 dice per bomber but quickly realized making them that powerful could be a game breaker. Not sure that any other nation could withstand that strong an attacking force.

    There is no change in cost, bombers are still 12 IPCs.
    If someone rolls for tech and gets Heavy Bombers, then they do tend to purchase more bombers and carry out more SBRs than they normally would. Whether or not the enemy ICs are protected by fighters is usually not a consideration except that the bombing player will usually try to make sure they have some escort fighters to protect their bombers if the enemy has possible interceptors.
    In some cases, I have seen someone get Heavy Bombers and it really bumps up their game. They continuously max out their enemy’s factories and bases while they build up an invasion force so they end up easily moving in.
    In other cases, I have seen getting Heavy Bombers become a detriment. They start buying more bombers when they may need other types of units and end up losing ground or maybe losing control of certain sea areas.

    I will say one other thing about this. Even with our HR making Heavy Bombers stronger than the OOB rules, we rarely see them in our games because we rarely roll for tech. It’s just too hard to squeeze out IPCs for a chance at a good tech when you have to keep up unit purchases to try and overcome your opponent or keep them from overwhelming you.

    All I can say is Amen! If you get heavy bombers you can bomb me all you want. I used to play FTF once a week at least way back when. It takes a lot to get them, but if you can roll heavies you ought to get them. Heavies aren’t the only thing that wins wars on the board and it takes a lot of luck to score them early and easily.

    If a player is dropping a lot of dice on tech they usually are either foolish or doing well, and your opponents will either benefit from your foolishness, or receive a quicker death via good techs.


  • 2017 '16

    Please, I need everyone opinion.
    And more specifically, I’m asking people which have a lot of experience with G40 games.

    Because I’m still trying to keep the OOB Carrier and develop a real Fighter unit (able to hit directly planes) within the OOB combat values of G40 Full Carrier (A6 D10 / A7 D9 / A6 D8), I’m locked within some borders. Here they are.

    Do you think this can still be a viable Fighter unit?
    Or is this already and ultimately doomed because it remains too powerful with a Defense @3 which hit directly enemy’s planes?

    Does a reduced cost for planes, such as minus 2 IPCs, (ex.: Fg at 8 IPCs, TcB at 9 IPCs, StB at 10 IPCs) can change something about balancing this Fighter unit?
    (Here, I thought about a reduced cost as a way to compensate for high attrition rates amongst planes.)

    This also rise the issue about such high SBR values, does an increased risk to loose valuable 12 IPCs Strategic Bombers still worth doing SBR? Or such revamped Fighter unit imply to revised SBR, anyway?

    Details below are provided to understand what I’m talking about.
    I’m not really trying to promote this new unit but rather asking people about obvious flaws which can be seen from experienced players POV get used to play with a lot of units and IPCs coming along with any G40 games.


    Down below are the three aircraft units combat values and cost:

    FIGHTER
    Attack 2 can rise to 3
    Defense 3 can rise to 4
    Move 4
    Cost 10
    Air combat unit: All hits are allocated to aircraft units first, if any available
    Air Supremacy bonus: +1 Attack/Defense when no enemy’s aircraft
    Air Superiority Weapon bonus:+1 Attack/Defense when fighting against only enemy’s aircrafts.
    This last point is an entirely new feature:
    it is provided to ensure that Fighters on Carrier can still have a high defense against any Strategic Bombers Spam, such as Darkened Skies strategy.

    Combined Arms bonus: gives +1 Attack / Defense when paired 1:1 with Tactical Bomber unit

    SBR escort mission: Attack @2
    Can intercept in SBR: Defense @3.

    Carrier operation: up to two units can be on board a fleet Carrier (max.: 2 units of any kind per fleet Carrier)

    TACTICAL BOMBER
    Attack 3 can rise to 4
    Defense 3 can rise to 4
    Move 4
    Cost 11
    Air Supremacy bonus: +1 Attack / +1 Defense when no enemy’s aircraft

    Combined Arms bonus: +1 Attack / +1 Defense when paired 1:1 with a Fighter
    Combined Arms Bonus in Tank support, Tactical Bomber as a “Tank Buster”:
    +1 Attack / +1 Defense when paired 1:1 with Tank

    Tactical Bombing Raid: Attack @2
    TBR damage: 1D6 on Air Base or Naval Base
    On SBR can also do escort mission: Attack @2

    Carrier operation: up to two units can be on board a fleet Carrier (max.: 2 units of any kind per fleet Carrier)

    STRATEGIC BOMBER
    Attack 4
    Defense 1
    Move 6
    Cost 12
    Strategical Bombing Raid: Attack @1
    SBR damage: 1D6+2 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base

    No Carrier Operation

    Now in SBR situations, aircrafts will be fighting each others with more logical values:
    Fighters: Attack 2 Defense 3
    Tactical Bombers: Attack 2 Defense 0
    Strategic Bombers: Attack 1 Defense 0


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