7.0 Clarification

Just started setting up board and looking at the new setups. Looks like Russia’s Eastern front is in Novosibirsk!  lol  Didn’t really notice it until I did the setup.
Don’t see Japan gettin to Moscow. Seems like Japan is being forced to India.

Thanks for the recon SS.

In retrospect, as radical as the changes are to Novosibirsk, I am surprised no Russian navy showed up off of Vladivostok!

I seem to remember a small one there in Zeno’s World at War.

Anyway, I’ve been thinking hard shoulder to the USSR (maybe grab a bit of buffer from the eastern territories) and drive for FEC, DEI, and beat up China along the way. It’ll have to be quick though and if the rolls go bad it may mean turtle time. It looks like Japan is going to be forced to declare war early by slapping FEC (maybe USSR too) hard with the sneak attack. I don’t see a Pearl Harbour happening.

Then again, I’m still thinking about a more conservative game if the sneak attack by turn 2 is still in force by the time we play. All that new junk in Novosibirsk is a bit intimidating. Are the small gains worth it to get the US after me earlier on?

Please keep the reports/impressions coming.

@billcallaway:

I take Denmark by land 1st impulse so their navy has to roll, then on 2nd impulse I take Norway. I do it every single time so I can get the bonus. It has to be done for the extra cash but it can cost you a plane if Norway gets lucky.

Interesting, how do you deal with the UK fleet?  I know that I like to take out as many uk ships as possible turn 1, then Norway can be delt with turn 2 or 3.

It definitely will be a tough go for Japan. The beauty of the old sneak attack rules was that the Allies knew it might be coming but there were a few turns of drama beforehand. Now (if it remains the case), the “sneak” has been taken out of the sneak attack. Maybe it would have been better to give Japan a two impulse like Germany which she had to use by the end of turn three or something.

When I get home I’ll be setting up the map right away and getting the lay of the land. I’m sure SS will be giving us some more info as seeing is believing.  :-o

Past that, we’ll see what Tigerman sends us.

@SS:

As you probably seen US starts at 0 and rolls 2 d12’s also on first turn.

I have seen this but what has me questioning it is on the setup sheet at the top right hand corner. it saids
production 80, starting IPC 20. a different IPC start then their countries production value. This is true for many of the powers. so the way I take it is (using US for example) the US gets 20IPC to spend on round 1 to buy new units. then roll the 2d12 to collect income adding to each round til at war.

US gets 20 icp’s to spend on first turn. Then they roll 2d12’s at end of turn 1 for income and hope you don’t roll snake eyes.  :-D  Then US has only 2 icp’s to spend on turn 2.  :x      But Japan and Germany are hopin you do.

Thats part of the confusion for some people that you stated.

@SS:

US gets 20 icp’s to spend on first turn. Then they roll 2d12’s at end of turn 1 for income and hope you don’t roll snake eyes.  :-D  Then US has only 2 icp’s to spend on turn 2.  :x       But Japan and Germany are hopin you do.

Thats part of the confusion for some people that you stated.

Thank you,  I thought I was the only one confused and was like am I reading this wrong or what.

@koba:

It definitely will be a tough go for Japan. The beauty of the old sneak attack rules was that the Allies knew it might be coming but there were a few turns of drama beforehand. Now (if it remains the case), the “sneak” has been taken out of the sneak attack. Maybe it would have been better to give Japan a two impulse like Germany which she had to use by the end of turn three or something.

When I get home I’ll be setting up the map right away and getting the lay of the land. I’m sure SS will be giving us some more info as seeing is believing.  :-o

Past that, we’ll see what Tigerman sends us.

The original 1.0 rules had Japan’s sneak attack exactly the same as Germany. I may put this back into play and tone it down just a bit to see what happens….playtest of course.

Im wotking on the discrepancies right now.  This is what im changing for the 7.1v

1 Russia starting cash will be 15. Russia will receive full production income every turn but still have to roll to get to 48 for a declaration of war.

2 Japan sneak attack has to be done before the start of turn 7….so turns 1-6

3. German navy can be used on second impulse.

Any other clarifications or discrepancies please post or PM me. Ill be looking all weekend!!

All special units can be purchased at the beginning of any turn unless restricted by rules.

Minor Axis cannot build Tigers or any German special units.

Sounds good.

Will implement and report back.

Thanks again.

I don’t have any discrepancies to point out at the moment, I’m sure they’re being taken care of for the most part.

What concerns me a the moment is something a little different than what would normally be considered for balancing.  I mentioned this in a thread last year, but I don’t think it attracted much attention.

Has anyone considered that France, being a 20 IPC nation/power, just falls too early in the game?  It has the potential to do so much more than what it’s currently doing.  It’s comparable to Italy in almost every way.  Imagine Italy being knocked out on turn 1, every single time.  Does that help convey what I’m trying to explain?  Please let me know…

I might be biased when I say the 2 impulse ablilty Germany has is just overpowered; I’ve never liked it, even playing as Germany…  I’m not even looking at it from a historical perspective.  I’m thinking the mechanics at this basic level need a rethink.  It wouldn’t be the first time a well established game was revamped.  I’m sure you guys can cite your own examples…  I will also mention that I didn’t use the ability when I played as Germany once, and I still managed to make a huge punch and go on the offensive for the consequent turns.  This was with 6.1 rules and setup.  Eliminating the 2nd impulse rule will effectively eliminate the need to buff Russia like in 7.0 and still have France ultimately surrender and do the whole Vichy/Free French thing (which is something I find absolutely awesome in this game, btw) well before Russia enters the war.

I hope you guys don’t think I’m crazy when you finish reading this lol.  Do you guys think this is something to consider?

I will also mention that even though I love this game, I never get a chance to play it.  I won’t really be able to provide any reports on sessions for testing rules, unfortunately…

Ben_D.  I understand what you are saying. We have had games where Germany failed to take out France and France w as s a big player in the game.  We had one game where France never fell and Germany was beaten. We had a game wheee France never fell but the Axis still won because they took a few other victory cities….fun both times.  That being said, most of the time France will fall in turn 1 or 2.  Just the nature of the beast.

Glad you like the game.

Ben D.  When we played are first game Germany ( First time player for this game ) rolled for Vichy and only got a few ships and maybe 5 or 6 territories towards Vichy. He also had bad die rolls where he lost alot of navy on turns 1 and 2. Also German split his fronts where one went thru Turkey which was probably a mistake. Allies win. So alot  rides on that and a very good German player is Key. No Offense to first time player for Germany.
Last 2 games Allies and Axis even for 1 game and 2nd game Axis won due to good play, some good dice and bad decisions by us the Allies.

Agreed. If things go well for Germany via impulse attacks, wonderful. If things don’t go so great, catastrophe.

Note: A lot of it depends on your opponent(s). Mine are fanatical terrorists (I hope they’re reading) who take advantage of every little shred of bad luck, lapsed attention, and strategic weakness on my part. There was already a whole gaggle of underhanded schemes and tricks (and slanders!!!) viciously applied to me as the Axis before these rule changes. Now it’s going to be a monsoon of terrorism. I can say from experience that opportunism, skulduggery, scandalous campaigns, shameless posturing and downright scuzziness in general are the traits and activities of a dedicated Allied player :-P.  All this while the unfairly handicapped, dignified and altruistic Axis player merely attempts to hold their own.

This being said, I never leave anything to chance when I slap France. I’ve seen too many times when my Axis opponent had poor rolls and/or did not apply overwhelming force, or relied on air power for hits (only to see a bunch of planes shot down), and had to deal with a whole mess of French forces–duly supported by British reinforcements–breathing down Germany’s neck on turn two. Combine this with UK activation of pro-allied armies of Yugoslavia and Greece and the Axis are having a lousy outing. Not even mentioning the fact that the Russians are yuck yucking it up while building the Red Army.

Germany needs that two impulse move in order to break out and have even half a chance of success. This is even more acute given the recent rule and set-up changes.

The two impulse attack could also be defended as it reflects the historical reality of Germany’s early lead in terms of organization and revolutionary tactics in warfare. Not to mention the political dissension (France, it could be argued, did almost as much as the Germans to bring on defeat in 1940) and military ineptitude of the western allies.

No offence Ben, I know we’ve had this discussion about balance before.

My allied opponents would just love you Ben–-I’m beginning to wonder if you’re not one of them :wink:, it certainly wouldn’t be beneath them to come on here and masquerade as someone generally concerned about fairness and balance (the swine)—.

They’re probably reading your post right now and slobbering over the proposition of an end to the two impulse (at least until it’s their turn to be the Axis—the side they are generally not interested in playing—even less interested now).

Well, I’m just looking at the law of averages here with what’s been given to me on the board.  Yes, you can get diced,  but over 95% of the time, Germany’s standard opening move will defeat France everytime providing the German player is aware of how to play properly.  With the 2 impulse ability, you concentrate your newly created forces on Paris (you should not build navy or units that only move 1 for this to work properly).  Sea Lion preparation can start on turn 2 if that’s what you like.

I sunk the British home fleet and took France without the impulse with 6.1 in 2 turns, it is possible.  I will provide the math later if need be (I actually will this time if it’s requested) to show how Germany’s opening move can defeat France without a real risk of failure.

I stress here: I wish I could play a few sessions with you guys lol,  it would make things much more convenient, and let me enjoy the game :).  (And Koba, I believe you and I have yet to meet in person ;) ).

Anyway, the 2 impulse ability was what brought about Russia’s buff in 7.0, I truly believe, and what made the Axis overpowered in 6.1, as I’ve rhetorically stated before.  If I could, I’d show you what I mean, I just don’t have room or ppl to play with anymore.

I’ll try to write it out here though.  If I do get a chance, here is how I’ll do it (along with some minor house rules I’ve put in, which I can rehash if need be): obviously remove 2nd impulse and give Germany the ablilty to attack anything exactly like they do for the first surprise attack against Russia, except that it would be 5 battles or so (this also represents the upper hand Germany had at the start of the war); give Germany back their 2 U-Boats in the Baltic Sea from 6.1; start Germany with at least 40 IPC’s; setup Russia exactly as they were in 6.1; having Russia roll 1d12+1d6 for income instead of 2d12; restore Japan’s surprise attack to how it was in 6.1; and finally, keep everything else in 7.0.

I will admit that I do prefer to play the Commonwealth more than any other nation because I’m Canadian (can you tell?  Lol) and controling almost 1/3rd of the board at the start is awesome (British Empire FTW haha).  I will also state that I have played my share of the game as the Axis, which I would guess would be about 35% of the games I’ve played on that board.  So I’m not ridiculously biased, I am trying to give you guys my best objectional view here.

It doesn’t matter where Germany starts its Vichy rolls for territorys’ correct? Because we roll in Africa where the Legion was forced to the west off the map in Africa do to no Free French territorys.

Its up to the german player what territory to roll for. By the rules if all units in africa are Vichy then place the Legionnare in the closest free French zone. If there is no FF the place in the nearest friendly zone……I will change this to read if there is a closer friendly zone than FF zone place them there.