The US as an aggresive Axis power, Japan as a peaceful Allied power.

knp7765

Now here is the setups for Japan as a peaceful Allied power, along with changes to the China setup, Russia setup and Commonwealth (Canada) setup. By the way, I am using Young Grasshopper’s Halifax Rules setup with a single UK economy and a Commonwealth nation which includes ANZAC, Canada, South Africa and SW Africa.
I tried to make Japan’s setup as a peaceful, non-aggressive nation with a reduced military in order to show their peaceful intentions to the world and just enough to defend their own interests. The biggest change is NO Japanese units in China. In this reality, Japan did not go to war with China so they don’t occupy any Chinese territories. This of course cuts Japan’s income way down to just 15 IPCs while China gets a boost up to 23 IPCs.
See what you think about this:
JAPAN
Japan = 1 Industrial Complex, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 2 AA guns, 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Tank, 1 Fighter, 1 Tactical Bomber, 1 Bomber
Korea = 2 Infantry, 1 Fighter
Okinawa = 1 Infantry
Iwo Jima = 1 Infantry
Formosa = 1 Airbase, 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter
Siam = 2 Infantry
Marianas = 1 Infantry
Marshall Islands = 1 Infantry
Caroline Islands = 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter
SZ 6 = 1 Carrier w/1 fighter and 1 tactical bomber, 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
SZ 19 = 1 Destroyer, 1 Submarine
SZ 20 = 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
SZ 33 = 1 Destroyer
CHINA
Manchuria = 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Jehol = 1 Infantry
Suiyuan = 1 Infantry
Hopei = 1 Infantry
Shantung = 1 Infantry
Kiangsu = 4 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Kiangsi = 1 Infantry
Kwangsi = 1 Infantry
Yunnan = 2 Infantry
Szechwan = 2 Infantry
SOVIET UNION (Only territories listed where changes were made to original setup. The rest is like OOB setup)
Soviet Far East = 4 Infantry, 1 AA gun
Siberia = 2 Infantry
Amur = 3 Infantry, 1 AA gun
Sakha = 2 Infantry
Buryatia = 1 Infantry
Yakut SSR = 1 Infantry
Timguska = 1 Infantry
Novosibirsk = 2 Infantry
Kazakhstan = 1 Infantry
Volgograd = 1 Major Factory, 1 Infantry, 1 Mechanized Infantry, 1 Tank
COMMONWEALTH (Canada) (Only territories listed where changes were made to original setup. The rest is like OOB setup)
Western Canada = 1 Infantry
Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba = 1 Infantry
New Brunswick/Novo Scotia = 1 Infantry, 1 Naval Base

US Axis 1.JPG

Witt

That is brilliant.
Would you swap the turn order and put the US in Japan’s 3rd place?
Are you having any politics or playing all are at war? Will the US have to invade Brazil, if not an Ally now? That wi change things
Other than those questions , I probably think my only observation is that Japan will need a second Carrier And 2 planes. I would also drop a couple of the US’ TTs. Make it build some, to slow things up a bit.

Canada cannot hold, from what I am seeing. (They won’t our community happy, after all the Halifax rules you naughty man!).
Are you going to try it with friends?

CWO Marc

@wittmann:

Canada cannot hold, from what I am seeing. (They won’t our community happy, after all the Halifax rules you naughty man!).

Perhaps a way to strengthen Canada would be to imagine that, in the alternate timeline that knp describes, Canada’s Prime Minister is Adrien Arcand, the leader of the fascist National Unity Party of Canada. Arcand, whose love for Britain and devotion to its King translated itself into some peculiar ideas, “wanted to build a powerful centralized Canadian Fascist state within the British Empire.” So, in this alternate timeline, Arcand’s policy would be an interesting twist on Canada’s WWII role as a cultural bridge between the US and Britain: Arcard would approve of the US joining the Axis, so he’d offer to help persuade the beloved Mother Country (Britain) to come to its senses and negotiate peace with Hitler.

Arcand frequently corresponded with Arnold Spencer Leese, the head of the Imperial Fascist League, and one of his dreams was something called “Dominion power” – so perhaps in this alternate timeline the Halifax Rules would involve a situation in which the Commonwealth Dominons team up to form a Commonwealth Fascist Alliance of some sort.

knp7765

Hey wittmann,
That is something I forgot to mention. I would swap the US and Japan in turn order. As for Brazil, I was toying with the idea of making them Pro-Axis. The reason being in every other game, Brazil is already a part of the US. So I’m wondering if Brazil would have been on the US side regardless of their political leanings or if they were specifically pro-Allies.
I could go with losing a couple of US transports. Perhaps one off the east coast and one off the west coast? I got to disagree with giving Japan a second carrier. In this scenario, they just can’t afford it. They don’t have the resources.

CWO Marc,
Interesting bit of information. I was unaware of the fascist party in Canada, although it makes sense since it seems just about every country sprouted some sort of fascist or Nazi party back then. In fact, I was considering making this alternate US president the leader of the US Nazi party, but I couldn’t remember his name.
So Commonwealth joining the Axis? That would be an interesting change, although I doubt the Allies would stand any chance in that case. They already have too much against them.

CWO Marc

@knp7765:

In fact, I was considering making this alternate US president the leader of the US Nazi party, but I couldn’t remember his name.

Do you mean Fritz Kuhn, the leader of the German-American Bund?

Witt

As for Brazil, I was toying with the idea of making them Pro-Axis. The reason being in every other game, Brazil is already a part of the US. So I’m wondering if Brazil would have been on the US side regardless of their political leanings or if they were specifically pro-Allies.

I,too, have no idea if it was US influenced or “Allied”.

CWO Marc

@wittmann:

As for Brazil, I was toying with the idea of making them Pro-Axis. The reason being in every other game, Brazil is already a part of the US. So I’m wondering if Brazil would have been on the US side regardless of their political leanings or if they were specifically pro-Allies. I,too, have no idea if it was US influenced or “Allied”.

Unlike many Latin American states which joined the Allies in the days or weeks right after Pearl Harbor, Brazil stayed neutral (though on sympathetic terms with the Allies) until about the middle of 1942, as I recall, when it declared war on Germany. I can’t remember what was the cause. I believe it was the only Latin American country to send troops overseas to fight in WWII.

Witt

So, Marc, do you have any idea if it should be Allied or Axis leaning, in this game?
Perhaps it should stay Allied, but Argentina should be made pro Axis.
Might be fun to hot things up in South America.
Have just looked and Argentina is 3 SZ from Gib. and does not border Brazil. Might not be as fun as I thought. Does have 4 Inf. Is still 2 moves from SW Africa (4 SZs). One from French West Africa.

CWO Marc

@wittmann:

So, Marc, do you have any idea if it should be Allied or Axis leaning, in this game?
Perhaps it should stay Allied, but Argentina should be made pro Axis.
Might be fun to hot things up in South America.

When I get home tonight, I’ll check my files for a list I once prepared of the historical pro-Axis / pro-Allied leanings of the various countries on the Global map. I’ll see what the situation was in Latin America specifically. From memory, I’d say Brazil should definitely be counted as pro-Allied. I think there was one country in South America that I categorized in my list as pro-Axis; it may indeed have been Argentina, but I’ll consult my list to make sure. One country (Bolivia, IIRC) joined the Allies at mid-war, in 1943. A number of late-comers hopped into the Allied camp in 1945, which I think is the diplomatic equivalent of cheating (wait until victory is guaranteed for one side, then join that side just before the shooting stops), so I still classed them as neutrals in my list. I’ll post the details here tomorrow.

Young Grasshopper

gonna read this on the train to work tomorrow, it looks externally interesting.

Witt

Thanks Marc.

YG: I agree. Is always nice to have a different set up.

toblerone77

KNP I really applaud this type of customization! This is in a similar vane to something I’ve been working on for ages.

Secondly I finally got my Dad to platy Axis & Allies Revised on Labor Day after literally trying to persuade him for twenty years. I bring this up because he wants to jump straight to Global and asked if players can come up with alternative history/timeline scenarios. I grinned a wide grin and replied "oh yeah, me and a bunch of the guys I talk to on A&A.org come up with stuff all the time.

Kudos KNP!

knp7765

toblerone77,
I’m glad you like it. What did you think about my alternate history? A couple of points may have been pure fantasy, but I think a lot of it could have been plausible if certain figures made different decisions. Particularly in Japan. A little while back, I read the book “Japan 1941: Countdown to Infamy” by Eri Hotta. It covered a lot of the events in Japan that lead up to the Pearl Harbor attack. It was amazing to me how many of the government leaders in Japan that were actually wanting more peaceful resolutions to their problems with the US. They would often get together in private meetings and agree with each other that they didn’t want war. By the way, this includes Hideki Tojo. Then when they make more public speeches, they take this hard line, Japan is invincible stance. None of them wanted to seem “weak” in front of the others or the general public. Talk about the ultimate peer pressure.

wittmann,
Do you have first edition or second edition Europe 40 maps? I have the second edition and Argentina does border Brazil, right between Uruguay and Paraguay. They also share sea zone 85.

CWO Marc,
YES! Fritz Kuhn was the one I was thinking about.

Witt

I have both, but was using my tired old eyes and AAA.
Thank you for pointing out my error. Bordering each other makes it more fun if one is Allied friendly and the other Axis! Will look again later.

CWO Marc

@wittmann:

So, Marc, do you have any idea if it should be Allied or Axis leaning, in this game?
Perhaps it should stay Allied, but Argentina should be made pro Axis.
Might be fun to hot things up in South America.

Here’s my assessment of where the countries of Latin America stood historically (as opposed to what the Global game map says) in relation to the Axis and the Allies, with some ideas on how this might play out in A&A terms.

Central America
This map territory is actually a region consisting mostly of sovereign states: Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras (a.k.a. Spanish Honduras), Nicaragua, and Costa Rica. All of them joined the Allies in December 1941. The region also includes two foreign-controlled territories – British Honduras (a British possession in the years 1871-1964) and the Panama Canal Zone (controlled by the United States) – which both entered the war when their respective controlling countries did.
Assessment: they were Allied nations from the moment when the US entered the war.

West Indies
This is a region comprising a mix of sovereign states and foreign-held territories. The sovereign states were Cuba, Haiti and the Dominican Republic; all three joined the Allies in December 1941. The foreign-held territories consisted of American ones like Puerto Rico; British ones like Jamaica, the Bahamas, Trinidad, Tobago and some of the Lesser Antilles (including Barbados); French ones like Martinique and Guadeloupe; and Dutch ones like St. Martin. All of these entered the war when their respective controlling countries did.
Assessment: treated as a group for the sake of simplicity, they were Allied nations from the moment when the US entered the war.

Mexico
Declared war on the Axis powers in May 1942 after a number of U-boat attacks on Mexican ships.
Assessment: became an Allied nation about half a year after the US entered the war.

Brazil
Declared war on the Axis powers in August 1942 after a number of U-boat attacks on Brazilian ships. It became the only Latin American nation to send troops overseas when it contributed about two divisions to the European theatre in 1944.
Assessment: became an Allied nation about half a year after the US entered the war.

Bolivia
Joined the Allies in 1943 (the only country in the world to declare war in that year), but shortly thereafter its President was overthrown and was replaced by a new President with fascist sympathies. The country remained in the war on the Allied side, but made no military contributions.
Assessment: for the sake of simplicity, can be considered a neutral state; it entered the war in mid-stream, on a more or less nominal basis.

Chile
Initially neutral due to its commercial interests with Germany, but gradually distanced itself from the Axis nations, with whom it finally broke relations in 1943. Declared war on Japan in 1945.
Assessment: neutral until the last year of the war.

Ecuador
Stayed neutral until February 1945, when it joined the Allies.
Assessment: neutral until the last year of the war.

Uruguay
Neutral for much of the war. Broke off relations with the Axis in early 1942. Joined the Allies in February 1945.
Assessment: neutral until the last year of the war.

Columbia
Although it does not appear to have ever joined the Allies in a formal sense, Columbia leaned in their direction. It broke relations with the Axis soon after Pearl Harbor; it supplied the Allies with oil; it signed the United Nations Declaration in July 1943; and it declared a state of “belligency” against Germany in late 1943 following a U-boat attack on a Colombian ship.
Assessment: should at the very least be considered pro-Allies, but probably not an actual Allied nation.

Peru
Peru did not formally declare war on the Axis powers until 1945, but it supported the Allied powers from an early date. It broke relations with the Axis in January 1942; it allowed an American air base to operate from its territory and supplied it with aviation fuel; and its ships patroled the Panama Canal area.
Assessment: should be considered pro-Allies.

Venezuela
Venezuela did not formally declare war on the Axis powers until late in the war, but it broke relations with the Axis powers soon after Pearl Harbor and it was an important source of oil for the Allies throughout the war.
Assessment: should be considered pro-Allies.

Argentina
Stayed neutral for most of the war, despite being ruled by a succession of authoritarian and/or military regimes. This was due in part to the fact that neutrality was seen as being economically advatageous (since the country could sell exports to both sides), but also due to conflicts within the Argentine government between fascists and leftist radicals. The US pressured Argentina to join the Allies, but this was offset by Argentina’s traditionally close ties with Germany, with a resulting preference for neutrality. A small number of Argentine volunteers fought on the Allied side. Argentina broke relations with the Axis powers in June 1943 following a coup, but only joined the Allies in March 1945.
Assessment: neutral until the last year of the war, but politically volatile and with some potential to have tilted in either direction at an earlier date.

Paraguay

The country’s authoritarian government was openly sympathetic to the Axis, as was the country’s large German population. The US tried to decrease German influence in Paraguay with financial assistance, but had only limited succes. Paraguay did not act against German economic and diplomatic interests in the country until it joined the Allies in February 1945.
Assessment: should be considered pro-Axis.

Witt

Wow. A lot of time and effort has gone into that post. Thank you.
Probably best to leave Brazil Allied friendly then. The US probably does not need its 3 Inf in this scenario anyway.

knp7765

Hey guys. We started out this game and got through the first round tonight. Before we could start, I realized that I had to rework some of the National Objectives, then I ended up making a pretty big change with China.
United States National Objectives:
10 IPCs = US control of Eastern US, Central US, Western US, Mexico, SW Mexico, Central America, West Indies and Alaska.
5 IPCs = US Control of Hawaii, Midway, Wake, Guam and Philippines.
5 IPCs = US control of Borneo, Celebes, Java and Sumatra.
5 IPCs = US control of Japan (Tokyo)
5 IPCs = US control of New South Wales (Sydney)
5 IPCs = US control of Kiangsu (Shanghai)
5 IPCs = US control of India (Calcutta)
Japan National Objectives:
5 IPCs = Japanese control of all Japanese Pacific Islands
5 IPCs = Allied control of Borneo, Celebes, Java and Sumatra
5 IPCs = Japanese Control of Philippines and Guam
CHINA:
5 IPCs = (Once at war) Chinese control of all Chinese territories
I made China an industrialized nation, but a little less than others. They start with a Major Factory in Shanghai and can produce any units they wish with the exception of capital ships (Battleships and Aircraft Carriers). All new units purchased by China must be placed at their Major Factory.
With this rule, China is now allowed to purchase ships, including transports, and leave Chinese borders. Chinese air units can fly out over the ocean and attack Axis ships. Chinese units are allowed to enter Allied territories.
If Shanghai is captured, the Major Factory is reduced to a Minor Factory like any other. Now Chinese production is dependent upon the Burma Road and China may only purchase infantry and artillery. China may now place those new units in any Chinese controlled territory.
If the Burma Road is closed by Axis capture of Szechwan, Yunnan, Burma and/or India, then China can ONLY purchase infantry and place them in any Chinese controlled territory.
If Shanghai is liberated, China can resume purchasing any units they like within the limitations of a Minor Factory (no units over 10 IPCs) and they can upgrade the Minor Factory back to a Major Factory for 10 IPCs.
If Shanghai is captured, China will be able to collect the Burma Road National Objective (if all 4 territories of the Burma Road are held by Allies). If Shanghai is liberated, China can continue to collect the Burma Road NO. Once China regains ALL of it’s territories, the Burma Road NO will drop.
Burma Road National Objective:
6 IPCs = Allied Control of Szechwan, Yunnan, Burma and India. This occurs when Shanghai is captured by Axis forces and will not drop off until China captures all original territories again.
To incorporate this change, I have added the following to China’s setup:
Kiangsu = 1 Major Factory, 1 Air Base, 1 Naval Base, 4 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Tank, 1 Fighter

It is interesting to see China more active. Perhaps it won’t make the Allies as weak as I first thought they would be in making the US this big powerful Axis nation.

Witt

All makes a lot of sense. Good thinking.
Might be you can scrap the 10 for the US, as they will soon have conquered territories, like the Japanese would traditionally. I cannot see the US losing any of its starting 52. Otherwise it will be on a 100 within a few turns and that might prove too much.

knp7765

Here’s a quick report of our round 1.
GERMANY = Purchased 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine.
Attacked Normandy, France, Southern France and Yugoslavia. Won France, lost 5 infantry, 1 artillery. Won Southern France, lost 1 mech. Won Yugoslavia, lost 1 infantry. LOST Normandy, lost 2 mechs, retreated 1 tank to Holland.
Sank all Royal Navy ships in Sea Zones 109, 110, and 111. Lost 2 subs in SZ 110, no planes lost. Suffered 1 hit on battleship in SZ 111, no other losses. Both subs in SZ 109 survived.
Took Finland and Bulgaria in NCM. CA and TT SZ 114 moved to SZ 112. All ships placed SZ 112.
SOVIET UNION = Purchased 4 Artillery, 2 Tanks, 3 Infantry.
Massing units on border. New units placed at forward factories.
UNITED STATES = Purchased 2 Carriers, 2 Transports, 1 Submarine.
Took all Canadian/Commonwealth territories. Destroyed small Canadian Navy.
Attacked Japanese Navy in Sea Zones 6, 19 and 20. US sub killed IJN Cruiser and Transport in SZ 20. US FTR and TAC killed IJN Destroyer in SZ 19 but couldn’t touch IJN Sub. Destroyed all Japanese ships plus scramble aircraft in SZ 6, survived with 1 carrier, 2 fighters and 1 damaged battleship. Also used 3 transports to land 4 infantry, 1 artillery and 1 tank on Korea, Won that battle but lost 2 infantry.
Sent 3 transports and took Brazil. Lost 1 infantry.
Moved some units for attack on Japan. Other units in position to attack Commonwealth navy. Placed 1 CV, 1 SS, 2 TT in SZ 10. 1 CV in SZ 101.
JAPAN = Purchased 5 infantry.
Attacked US Navy in SZ 6 with 1 fighter from Formosa, 1 fighter from Carolines, 1 Sub from SZ 19, 1 DD from SZ 33 and 1 Bomber from Japan. Both sides wiped each other out so 3 US transports survive undefended.
Placed 5 infantry in Japan.
CHINA = Purchased 2 DD, 1 Transport.
Attacked Korea with 3 infantry, 1 artillery from Manchuria. Lost battle with no US losses.
Sent fighter to SZ 6 and sank US transports then returned to Shanghai.
Placed 2 DD, 1 TT in SZ 19.
UNITED KINGDOM = Purchased 6 infantry, 1 fighter, 1 transport.
Sent fighter from Scotland to attack German Battleship in SZ 111. UK fighter was killed, German BB survived.
Sent 2 FTR, 1 Bomber from UK, 1 CV, 1 CA, 1 DD, 1 TAC from SZ 98 all to SZ 97. Killed 1 Italian BB, CA, 2 FTRS and 1 German FTR with 1 TAC, 1 Bomber surviving.
Sent 1 FTR from Gibraltar, 1 FTR from Malta to attack Italian DD, TT in SZ 96. Killed Italian ships but lost 1 fighter.
All units from Alexandria, 1 mech from Egypt and 1 infantry,1 artillery via transport to Tobruk. UK won with 1 tank, 1 mech and 1 artillery surviving.
NCM = 1 infantry from Sudan to Kenya. Infantry/artillery via transport to Sumatra. CA DD from SZ 39 to SZ 41. 1 BB from SZ 37 to SZ 54.
Placed 6 infantry, 1 fighter on England. 1 transport SZ 39.
ITALY = Purchased 1 fighter.
CA, DD, SS from SZ 95 to SZ 93. Both French ships sunk, no Italian losses.
1 inf/1 art via transport from N Italy to Greece along with 2 infantry, 1 tank from Albania. Won battle with loss of 2 infantry.
Inf/Art from Libya attack Tunisia. Won battle, lost 1 infantry.
1 infantry from Ethiopia move into Sudan.
1 infantry/1 artillery from Ethiopia and 1 infantry from Italian Somaliland to Kenya. Won battle, lost 1 infantry.
1 tank, 1 bomber from N Italy to Normandy. Won battle, lost bomber.
Placed 1 fighter in Southern Italy.
COMMONWEALTH = Purchased 1 tank, 1 mech, 1 transport, 1 infantry.
Attacked Sudan with 2 infantry in Egypt. Won battle with no losses.
Moved fighter from New Zealand to Queensland. Moved transport from SZ 62 with infantry/artillery from Queensland to Java. Moved DD SZ 63 and CA SZ 62 to SZ 54.
Placed 1 tank 1 mech in South Africa. 1 TT in SZ 71. 1 Infantry in New South Wales.
FRANCE = Capital captured, no purchases.
Moved 1 infantry from Morocco and 1 fighter from England to Algeria. Moved 1 infantry from French West Africa to French Central Africa. Moved 1 Infantry from Syria to Trans-Jordan. Moved 1 DD from SZ 72 to SZ 81.

Well, that’s how it sits so far. The US did a lot right off the bat, but definitely had a set back against Japan. Allowing China more options looks pretty interesting so far. Looking forward to see how this works out.
So far Europe seems to be going as a typical game of G40. Germany had pretty good luck for the most part, Normandy notwithstanding. UK had a lot of good action against Italy, but lost a lot of RAF and Royal Navy in the process. I think Italy is still in fairly good shape. It will depend on what the Commonwealth does from S. Africa.

Witt

Does not seem to hopeful for the Allies. Can you see a chink of light?
What is the income differential end of the turn?
Did the Axis also start with more TUV? If so, surely it will win.

The US as an aggresive Axis power, Japan as a peaceful Allied power.

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