The "right way" to play Germany



  • I have been playing A&A since it came out, and Germany has always been my best country. Although in both games (A&A and revised) the axis have the odds stacked against them, I find victories with them are more rewarding because they are so much harder to come by. Be that as it may, this is what I have found playing Germany.

    In short, hit the allies where they are not strong.

    Although the first turn buy is important, I see it as being more of a “feeler”. I tend to wait and see where the allies commit themselves before I decide what my exact strategy is going to be. The exception being Russia on t1 (because they are the only ones b4 germany). If Russia does the standard thing on T1 and fully commits to the German front than you should hold off. If however they get “creative” and send more than usual amount of troops to fight the Japs, than you see the weakness and should exploit it with large attacks on Russia. However that rarely happens.

    As usual with most people who have some proficiency playing Germany, I knock the hell out of England turn 1 because they are spread so thin. The damage you can inflict on England before they can consolidate is never the same as on turn 1. Use your Air Force and navy to its fullest to exploit this.

    Now it is a waiting game to see how the US and UK plan to wage war. If the UK goes all after Navy in the Atlantic, hit Africa hard. Your 1 inf 1 tank a turn will force the British to put large amounts of troops in Africa. If they fully commit to Africa, slam them in the ocean removing the threat of a cross channel invasion. If they go to India, same is true. There are only so many places they can spend $ and be effective. If they try to “do it all” they only accomplish losing on all fronts.

    Now the real trick is with the Americans. If all 3 powers go all out against you, you have much fewer options. Thankfully in revised the Atlantic is not a quick jump over to the English sea square. Africa can still be exploited however because the US starts out with next to no navy in the Atlantic. Many games I have seen (if not most) develop into the UK building up an atlantic navy to threaten western Eurupe, and/or feed the Russians troops, while the US goes full force into Africa taking away much needed IPC. If this is the case, you really need to rely heavily on the Japs to do thier job and do it well since they are virtualy uncontested. However, your job turns into a delaying action to the inevitable. Airforce is huge in being able to do this well. 1 fighter or bomber a turn is huge in deturing an over ambitious US. With the threat of a large air reprisal on thier fleet where they land, the US and UK will need to overbuy ships to protect thier transports. Idealy, you never have to attack the allied shipping because they have gone to such a gross extreme over buying ships to protect it would be suicide. You still have your air force, and they have a bunch of ships that will never see combat (unlike your airforce which will see a lot of combat reguardless). This buys you time. If it is apparent that the Americans are going to go whole hog into Eurupe I suggest a very speedy conquest of Africa before the US can land in any force. You may be spread thin, but you get the short term IPC and than make the US chase you. Do not put your forces on the coast, put them one square away and make the Americans chase you. Move back 1 square every turn to stop the quick blitzkrieg. All the while they can never truly take you out because they will not have infantry support. If they try to take you out with only tanks and airforce than you got your $'s worth out of the Africa corp because they will be losing tanks to your infantry when they attack.

    Air force is the key to German victory. You must give the Russian front “its due” of men going into the meat grinder. But a plane a turn for Germany will ensure a constant threat to the allied forces on all fronts. If you feel lucky, long range aircraft DOUBLE (in my opinion) the threat your airforce presents, and if you can spare the IPC I suggest you get it.

    In my opinion a winning German player does not truly come into the game with a concrete strategy. As the Germans you need to look at it not as what you are able to do, but as what the allies are not able to do.

    Create a situation where the allies are trying to stop a damn from bursting. As they plug one hole, open up another one and leave the small crack they have filled for the one you are now trying to exploit. The allies can not cover every “crack”, and you need to use that to your advantage. Sooner or later they will run out of fingers to plug the dam. Above all, do not fight thier fight, meaning a heads up confrontation against an allied concentration is suicide. They will win every time, they can out build you. If they are funneling troops to Russia spend IPC to take Africa away. If they want Africa hit Russia hard. If they are going all out to kill you, make them over spend to protect thier navy while Japan gobbles up the rest of the world.

    The key to victory is the German airforce, with it you are a threat on all fronts. Without it you are fighting thier fight, and when that happens you better hope the Japs have thier shiznit together because if they don’t there will be hell to pay.



  • You have a very good grasp on Germany strategy. Definitely the fighter fleet is key to German defense/offense.

    My comment is that the Allies do not have to overbuy navy as much as you might think. If you don’t buy a carrier the first turn, as UK I would build 1 carrier + 1 fighter and destroy your Baltic fleet and invade Norway full on, and deploy the carrier/fighter with the battleship/2 trans. Only 4 German planes will be able to try to attack that fleet if the Germans invade Anglo-Egypt seriously. After that I would build one more carrier with the UK and have the US land his fighters on it. Along with the US’s two destroyers and 1 battleship, the combined navy is strong enough to repel any aerial assault on it unless you insist on building fighters.

    That’s quite an interesting thought about building 1 fighter every turn, though. I never thought of trying that to force the Allies to buff up their navy a bit to respond to that. The problem to me is that you could have gotten 3 infantry instead of that one fighter, and still have 1 IPC left over. If all the Allies are going after you, you pretty much want all the fodder you can get. Although maybe the fighter will be worth it if it forces them to build up more ships. It seems to me an economical waste overall though maybe, because every fighter costs 10 but transports only cost 8, which is what the Allies would be taking casualties on if you assaulted them. They could just overbuild transports and rely on 2 loaded carriers + 2 battleships + 2 destroyer for their firepower while you’re hitting easily replaceable transports with your costly air force.

    Another alternate strategy I thought of with Germany is trying to research rockets if you’re convinced they’re all out to get you; like spend 15 IPCs in the first few rounds on 3 dice to try to get it. The investment usually manages to pay for itself before the game is over, and it can really put the breaks on the Russians since they’re losing about 6.5 IPCs on average which is devastating. With Japan coming from behind with anywhere from 6-9 tanks from factories every turn, Russia can quickly collapse, allowing Germany to quickly blitz its territories back. Or potentially the game would be over if you’re playing with 9 victory cities if Germany hasn’t lost any of his.



  • I believe 1 fighter a turn is a good strategy because it puts pressure on the allied fleet which is essential to an allied victory. This buys you time, and as you know, time is money. Once the fleet is sunk, you have lots of time to take on Mutha Russia.



  • I am a strong believer in the 1 fighter a turn method, at least until it becomes hopeless and you are just defending waiting for the inevitalble conquest of Berlin.

    The scope of the effect the fighter or bomber would have is not only limited to an atlantic sea battle, although should the opprotunity arise you should seize it. Also, in your scenerio of having an over-whelming fleet you do not put any pressure on Germany for at least 3 turns. I am guessing you are holding your fleet back NW of Great Britian until more ships arrive. I would almost never attack the fleet you described. But if UK tries to land any troops (whether it be in Eurupe or Africa) before they can consolidate with the US fleet I will attack it (you can no longer hide from my airforce once you land somewhere). Also, you underestimate the power of the threat of an attack in the sea. Lets say that you force the UK or US to buy an extra carrier because they fear a german air attack. They just wasted 18 IPC. Yes, they may have a little bit more manuverability with the extra carrier… but that small perk is hardly worth 16 IPC (or imagine if they wasted 24 IPC on a battleship?). All the while you still have your versatile air force that can just go to another theater to inflict damage.

    As to the 10 ICP fighter issue compared to the 3 IPC infantry… A slowly growing German airforce gives you enormous versatility. And in general the German airforce should grow because if the German player is playing smart he will covet his airforce and not squander it foolishly. An end all battle with the atlantic fleet is a once a game thing, that can very easily decide the game. But barring game deciding moves, the german airforce should stay in tact for the most part. Lets say it is turn 3. The Germans have taken Egypt, the UK put a IC in south africa. Pretty standard game situation. Leaving a token air force behind in Eurupe to exchange territories with the Russians, move the rest of it to Africa. Lets say realisticaly that is 4 figheters and a bomber (leaving 2 fighters behind in Eurupe). Now the stalemate going south turns into a route (I feel stupid at the momment and can not remember how to spell that correctly - sorry). You march down Africa and take the IC. You may say the Americans or British will land troops in africa, ok. Now you have your airforce there to destroy any invasion force that lands. Of course they may take thier planes off the carriers to protect thier land forces. I will attack the navy just because I can’t stand empty carriers lol. You can see the versatility of this I am sure. You mentioned rockets… they are nice, but if you go for a developement I say it should be long range aircraft. You at least double the threat posed by your airforce if you are lucky enough to get it. In revised, the map is bigger. The US player usualy uses Canada as its jumping off point to Eurupe now. With long range aircraft they need to put some serious defense there to protect the gravy train of troops that comes. If you get so bold as to get an extra bomber or 2, even the eastern coast of the US is not safe from the German airforce.

    Airforce means versatility to the Germans. It has the range and the power to effect any theater of the war. You like infantry with the German, and lord knows you are right by knowing they will need them against the Russians. But you can not instantly transfer troops from one front to another the way you can airforce.

    I know that you are going to say that given what I have said the allies going whole hog after Germany can take africa, and have the gravy train of troops coming into eurupe while putting pressure on Western. True, it is inevitable in that situation. But the key to victory than is to make it take as long as possible for them to do it. I never claimed Germany has the ability to defeat all 3 powers by itself. It can’t. But by correctly choosing your fights, and making every advance cost the allies in wasted IPC from fleet, or reconquering taken IPC in africa you delay them long enough for the Japs to run rampid through the rest of the world.

    Last thing, a strategy I have used with my airforce towards the “end game” (meaning a dash to moscow) is upon making my big push to moscow I start it with a suicide charge into the atlantic with my airforce (suicide is relative, I mean going into the battle knowing I will lose my airforce to achieve time. Insane odds I won’t do this - but insane odds also means that I have made the allies over buy thier navy). If I can do an exchange, my airforce for thier navy I will do it (and buy 2 fighters that turn to keep a minimal threat to naked transports being placed). My airforce of course would be a great help in a russian offensive, but I will gladly trade them for 2 or 3 turns of “alone time” with the ruskies.

    Keep in mind, I am not advocating the first turn buy being 4 fighters or something insane like that. Just 1 fighter or bomber a turn (and if you feel lucky go for long range aircraft). Germany can afford that, and it will play hell with the allies ability to move troops. A short coming of the game is that subs play nowhere near the role they did in WW2. A German airforce can play that historical role, if done correctly.



  • just wanted to add, your first turn scenerio will not work out the way you are stating. You say you will attack my baltic fleet? with just your airfrorce? That is a close battle to say the least. Will you use the British Battleship to take the baltic? If so it does not have the protection of the aircraft carrier, and you just lost the battleship because you did not conolidate them. Bare min. you attack my fleet in the baltic with your airforce and destroy them, but in turn I destroy your airforce… I will take the trade. If you use your battleship, you lose your battleship. Even if you win, you lose because I get to trade a fighter for a battleship on my upcoming turn.

    And although you have a fighter on your british AC. You don’t have 2 BRITISH fighters on the AC. You lose your airforce attacking my baltic fleet like that. Your ability to attack is severly diminished because you can not consolidate a British offensive. Destroying the German fleet in the baltic does come with a price.



  • I like your idea on the germans key to victory. I have found it very effective to buy a bomber a turn and use all of them to bomb the IPC’s right out of the russians. I also buy bombers with the japenese and bomb the russians with that. I really find now need for africa but if possible I could use the IPC’s. I really need some tips in africa because I find it hard to hold of the russians for the first few turns and I don’t have enough money for Africa.



  • I like your idea on the germans key to victory. I have found it very effective to buy a bomber a turn and use all of them to bomb the IPC’s right out of the russians. I also buy bombers with the japenese and bomb the russians with that. I really find now need for africa but if possible I could use the IPC’s. I really need some tips in africa because I find it hard to hold of the russians for the first few turns and I don’t have enough money for Africa.



  • I find it effective to on T1, create infantry and artillery, T2, create tanks, and T3, create fighters. This way, you can continuously build up a force that at the same time all can strike one point on T4, then you can rinse and repeat.



  • -Africa Korps,
          I’m not sure if that would work since if u wait till turn 4 to attackthen Russia Will have had 4 turns to build up.Lets say you have 10inf and 6art (giving u benefit of the doubt), then 10 tanks and 5 ftrs. Lets say Russia buys 8 inf every turn, they will have approx 30-40 inf(including starting inf) and 3tanks and 2ftrs are u sure its a good deal you’ll get around 12 hits first urn and they’ll get around 13 then u have no inf and little art, and still have planes and tanks, they have around 20 inf left plus their planes and tanks. Are you gonna keep attacking? Now I know that this doesn’t take into account many other factors( one of which is that u are building anything for the other allies) but in my opinion is that u need to keep constant pressure on Russia or else they will get too powerful.

    IMHO - Veteran A&AR player



  • Giving me the benefit of the doubt, such a force could number 17 tanks[edit : 16 tanks - no way west russia tank survives], 13 infantry + 10 artillery, 10 fighters and 1 bomber. Most likely it will be less than this, but still larger than the force provided in your example (only 5 fighters?)

    Infantry only builds mean his entire force attacks on a one, and can only defend one area. You can easily take his IPC producing territories since he can’t move out of Russia in any significance.



  • @Robert:

    I like your idea on the germans key to victory.  I have found it very effective to buy a bomber a turn and use all of them to bomb the IPC’s right out of the russians.  I also buy bombers with the japenese and bomb the russians with that.  I really find now need for africa but if possible I could use the IPC’s.  I really need some tips in africa because I find it hard to hold of the russians for the first few turns and I don’t have enough money for Africa.

    I understand the pressure that the Russians can put on you.  More than likely they will go after you with 90% of their forces.  However, to put pressure in africa only really takes 1 inf 1 armor a turn.  With my proposed plane a turn that adds up to 18 IPC which means that 22 IPC can go after Russia.  The Russians will have to do something about the Japs encroaching on their territories, they make 24 IPC and I don’t think it is out of the realm of possibility that they will spend more than 2 IPC (not even an infantry) a turn to fight the japs.  At worst you see a stalemate on the eastern front.  I am basing this on the starting out $ each country recieves because there is no way to know exactly how the game will evolve turns into it (the game is a dice rolling game, and things change).  However, any $ the Russians gain against the Germans, will be lost to $ lost to the japs.  Conversely, any $ lost in Eurupe will be gained in Africa.  So for simplicity sake I am using the starting out IPC.

    As to how to stop the Russians, the game has not changed so much as to not have the same “territory swap” that was in the original game.  The Germans or Russians will only move up when they have an overwhelming force to hold the territory taken.  To go 1/2 a$$ed means that the forces spent there will be destroyed at great cost to the original attacker.

    In most of my games 90% of allied forces go against Germany.  The people I play against do not really spend any IPC in the pacific, or against the Japs in general barring the few Infantry the Russians buy to delay the Japs.  So playing Germany most times I have to be able to fight all 3 allied powers, and hold out for the Japs to gain enough power to make their move.

    That was the way to play in the old game, and the people I play against refuse to adapt to the new game thinking that is the only way to play.  I have played the other countries and showed how diff. strategies can be effective, but they just chalk it up to me being lucky or what not, and never really consider doing these things themselves.

    Suffice to say, I am used to having the whole burden of the allied attack come on me when I play Germany.  I know I can’t win against those odds, but it has taught me to pick and chose my fights (which is why I like a strong German airforce so much - versatility).

    I would love play a game (online, or whatever) with someone who has a different strategy other than kill germany first, and pay little attention to Japan.  That is my biggest shortcoming in the game.

    Any takers?



  • This sounds like a real viable first turn buy, but eventually you really need to replace those fighter losses you suffer from attacking the british navy, or if he builds fighters to at least match him when he makes carriers.



  • I’m not a fan of buying any airforce with Germany. I find I need every single IPC in land troops and some basic navy first turn. Germany has a lot of territories to defend from many angles and seazones. I need 3 infantry rather than 1 fighter to shore up the border territories. If the Allies want control of the sea they will have it. Building some fighters delays this a bit but has the negative effect of having less forces to defend against Russia.



  • Zooey- I agree with your assessment of the value of a strong Luftwaffe- to an extent.

    To me it depends on how you philosophically approach the interplay between Germany and Japan. If the allies are using a KGF strategy, then you find that trading territories, playing defense on your flanks, and harrassing allied shipping are all critical. A fighter a turn, with mostly infantry (sprinkle in an artillery, armor, or both each turn) will provide you with the ability to cash out a little over 40 deep into the game, while simultaneously providing defense for your flanks with fighters that return from the front (landing in France, Italy). If, however, the allies are distracted in any way from KGF, then a heavier purchase of armor is necessary to take and hold land on the Ost Front, to maneuver in such a way as to either knock out Russia or deal them a crippling blow.

    The question is, as Germany, are you the hammer or the anvil? The hammer needs armor, the anvil fighters.Â



  • Men & Tanks win the war!

    Firstly the allies really only have one chance at winning KGF.  The faster they do that, the sooner they can get on with japan! knowing that your gonna be the put into the meat grinder what to buy? first turn 10 men two tanks… attack Russia where you can… don’t make any foolish attacks, destroy as much of the allied navy as possible and for gods sake don’t go getting foolish with the 6 fighters you start with… and close down the Suez canal!!! the very last thing you need is the British AC in the Mediterranean, and that Baltic fleet… well do what you can with it, while you can… usually it becomes a focus of the British by turn two even if you don’t move it… Non combat fortify western Europe so the greedy Brit’s can’t get their hands on it… 4 fighters and  5 men should hold for this round…
    fortify in easter Europe, it’s connected to karelia, belorussia, and Ukraine so you can keep in close contact for a counter strike…

    Second turn 10 men two tanks maybe 3 if you have the money… just depends on how lucky you got… keep sparing / bleeding the Russians, keep your ipcs above 40 and keep running wild in Africa while you can even if the Americans have already landed there you should still be able to take some of it this turn… karilea is a strong point. i like to go over the top so i can keep norway in the long run… secondly it off balances the Russian player … making that IC in the Caucasus kinda useless … your just gonna ignore it… for the first few rounds… Cause i am not saying you don’t want it… i am just saying you don’t wanna have to fight their battle for it…

    third turn and every turn after fifty fifty split men and tanks… you should be well fortified along the Atlantic at this point … you should consider maybe even all tanks if the Russian player is making dumb attacks or all men once in awhile if the dice aren’t going your way or the allies hit you hard on a front… anyway at this point you should focus entirely on Russia… keep sparing in the Ukraine belorussia but fortify hard in karelia and push on archangel… next turn fortify hard there… usually that starts the stagnation of Russia… which leads to the Russian player abandoning/sparsely defending that IC in the Caucasus at which point you take it… hopefully the japan player gets to the back side of Russia… in which case you have won…

    men and tanks win the war… let the allies have naval superiority not much you can do about it… you can pop transports with your planes given the chance… i love to eat unguarded transports for breakfast, they taste good…

    lastly I would highly suggest against ever buying planes with germany for the basic fact that 2 tanks equals a hit on offense and defense, cost 10 ipc… sadly one plane equals 50% chance of a hit on offense and a 66% chance of a hit on defence, cost 10 ipc
    so regardless of how you use them offense or defence they just aren’t as good… because your fighting a land war… and inviting them all to come and fight it your way…



  • I fully disagree with geramany not buying planes. Yes men and tanks win the war. I know that. But one fighter a turn can save from many naval threats. If you don’t buy one a turn, at least replace them so you always have six. That works well also.



  • 6 is a great number to have… but five is min… ahh just don’t squander what you start with and you shouldn’t have to replace them… I just feel your very limited when you are under the allied gun… and fighters are generally a luxury you don’t have



  • If Germany makes no aeronaval purchases, the axis will almost always lose the game. If you agree to let the allies have naval superiority and refuse to purchase fighters, how will you stay above 40? You mention running wild in Africa… R2 the allies will have alot coming at Algeria. Say first round purchases, America uses it all for the Pacific, 2 CV + 1 ftr, and UK makes 1 CV 1 TP 2 inf. R2 that is 4-6 ( depending on if you used the atlantic sub to sink the TP, or if you used it to help sink BB or something else ) inf, 1 armor, 1 artillery, + 2 fighters ( from UK CV.) Then the Americans come with 2 inf, 1 artillery, 1 armor. Their fleet strength off Algeria will be 1 BB 1 CV (2 ftr) 1-2 DD 3-4 TP. If you didn’t take Anglo-Egypt you could counter-attack with 1 BB 1 TP 6 ftr 1 bmb.

    Axis
    4+12+4
    20/6 3.33 3
    Allies
    4+3+8+3+3 (using lower fleet estimates.)
    21/6 3.5 4

    Axis BB is damaged, 1 TP (empty) destroyed, 2 ftr. destroyed.
    4+6+4
    14/6 2.33 2
    Allies’ BB is damaged, 3 TP (empty) destroyed.
    4+3+8+3
    18/6 3

    Axis bomber and 2 ftr. destroyed.
    4
    4/6 .67 1
    Allies’ DD and 1 ftr destroyed.
    4+3+4
    11/6 1.833 2

    Axis BB destroyed.
    Allies’ 1 ftr. destroyed.

    This leaves 1 BB 1 CV (using lower fleet estimates) in the Allied Atlantic fleet to be moved back to the transport and 2 fighters on the following turn.
    This leaves Germany with no airforce and its baltic fleet ( if it has not been reduced by air attack )

    edit: Although T2 you may collect 44-46, I don’t see how you can have 45 at the begining of the second turn, for 10 inf 3 armor. I also realize you only meant staying above 40 for second turn, but the fact remains that while you might be ok on T2, you won’t be able to reinforce Africa without any TP. Then the UK will probably spend a couple turns ferrying men while the US 'shuck shuck’s troops over to England. Also, you dont even need that many ground units at first… you can leave more in England to defend it if you’re worried about an invasion.



  • firstly you don’t have to agree to let the allies have naval superiority… THEY HAVE IT… you can delude yourself but they are making 72 (england and us) the first turn more than your income of that was probably devoted to the navy and next turn probably more will be spent that way, next turn as well… they can build navy till the cows come home and they probably will

    secondly its easy to stay above 40… you start at forty Africa is only worth 2 in a loss 38 and well with the tactic that i am playing your going after Russia which is worth 18… anyway, your only chance when the allies are playing KGF is men and tanks mostly, men… you can’t take all three allies on all fronts… you can’t wager a decent land war while trying to wager a naval battle the units just cost too much… you can however be a juggernaut and have 15 men and 5 tanks on all coastal territory and make the cost of landing sooo high that the allies will have to play your war and will never catch you, cause the longer the game goes the larger your standing defence gets and you have been building since the beginning. the allies have been loosing money steadily due to a Japanese player left alone the entire game so with or with out planes you win…

    personally i will hardly ever buy a plane… unless i have Russia pinned / captured… and i have the main land well fortified, then i may turn around buy all fighters one turn and perhaps some subs the very next turn… cause i sure as hell don’t have to worry about buying men late in the game… cause i took care of that earlier

    PS- i have won many games without any fighters left… and with Bobo the retarded Japanese player…(shrugs and cringes) gawd i hate playing with Bobo he sucks… and lastly i hate this style of play… all men and a few tanks is hard and boring work… but it does work… it also drags the hell outta the game and is not for some. last time we played it took 10 hours to crack russia in half because of this but it did keep the allies from one successfull landing on western europe, germany, and southern europe (also 10 hours in germany still had 6 fighters and had eaten a few transports, no bomber though)… they did take norway a few times though… but germany always took it back with high casualties from them

    other things i don’t do, research… waste of money… your odds of getting it are 1 in 6 the same cost as a 10 stack of men… and well ain’t no ability worth that in my humble opinion



  • Most likely, not all 72 is going to be devoted to fighting Germany. 2CV + 1 ftr. in the Pacific is a great T1 buy for US, and its not too unlikely that UK sends a few infantry to India.

    Just because you ignore the Western Allies and Africa doesn’t mean you are going to capture Russia’s 18 IC. Secondly, you can’t stop an Allied landing by only buying infantry and armor, and also capture Russia. How much IC will be spent on units to guard coastal territories (Norway, Western Europe, Germany, Italy, Balkans, Ukraine, Eastern Europe) and how much IC will be left over to fight Russia?

    As far as your KGF strategy… How long would it take you to get 15 infantry and 5 armor in every coastal province?

    edit- By buying ~1 ftr. each turn, you can help your ground force at the same time you create a real threat to the Allied Navy in your theater.



  • muhahahaha

    this tactic works well against the group i play with… they go after germany with a vengance… they retreat everything from all the corners of world for the most part and pull to the atlantic just to put a wrench in the works for germany… they buy nothing without germany in mind… its 100 % devotion… it took 5 turns last game before i felt i could even make a real run at russia because i had to hold strong while japan got going…

    Edit: holding strong meant staying at 40 or above… i fell to 37 one turn but rebounded back after a little regrouping…


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