Why did Larry Harris gimp the allies so hard that it feels socially awkward?

  • TripleA

    Every time I play global it just seems socially awkward.

    Round 1 uk buy is always going to be the same, unless you want to lose your capital city and sit out while your friends play. Then you pray to the dice gods whatever battles you picked works out, because if they do not…. well you just spend the rest of the game trying to take back egypt / keep Italy there, you may as well have a robot do it for you.

    Russia is just this guy hoping for some battles that never happen except 6 hours later when it happens on Russia… unless of course Germany is outgunned in which case Germany moves backwards.

    Then there is this guy named America who only gets to do something when Japan feels like letting him.

    Everyone else gets to have fun.

    Solution. Slap 5 infantry on london before the game starts. Throw a bomber down on archangel. Give America the Obama stimulus package of 5 infantry in central usa. Wow now everyone can actually play the game.

    Trust me this is better than a 13 bid in a strategic location, because a 13 bid in a strategic location can eliminate a strategy. Example 4 infantry on top of the 4 infantry Japan always attacks round 1… now you just spent 12 ipc to save 12 ipc for a total of a 24 ipc bid to protect a national objective for the rest of the game giving you even more bid money.


  • I agree with your point cow and especially with Russia and U.K. it feels like at least in the beginning that there is virtually no strategy whatsoever and you just clap down inf and hope for the best. However i don’t quite understand your solutions.

    1: adding 5 soldiers to bolster Britain’s land defenses would allow for safe builds of navy and ic in Egypt and i would love that opportunity as a U.K. player. But we all know that Sealion is already a pain in the rear for the Germans and i feel like this addition would kill Sea lion outright unless you gave Germany and additional 2 trannies at the start as well

    2: U.S.A. is so far ahead from the start of the game in IC’s even without war time N.O.'s that I think America is fine, and besides, the U.S. is supposed to feel left out and just start building up forces for the first couple turns anyways

    3: It is incredibly hard to balance Russia and Germany together and Russia will always have to retreat and fall back for the first couple of turns, what will a bomber in archangel do? I mean maybe it will add more to Russian counterattacks but i still don’t understand the value of it

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  • TripleA

    Axis is overwhelmingly overpowered.

    1. If you place nothing on london, germany can still sealion you.

    2. USA is a non factor in most games, Germany 6 Russia is dead and you have not done anything significant in either theater yet.

    3. Yes Russian counter attacks are possible (it means Russia can do 2 battles a turn instead of just one).

  • TripleA

    There is reason I pushed out axis strategy guides and zero allied ones. Because there is no strategy to the allies except react to what the axis do and hope they get diced somewhere.

    The axis can easily take the income lead relatively quickly and turn things into an income game where they expand and you lose, because they can HOLD ON TO WHAT THEY GOT DOESNT EVEN MATTER IF THEY MAKE IT OR NOT THEY GOT EACH OTHER AND THAT IS ALOT FOR LOVE.  Once they go even on income guess what? USA is far away.

    I remember when axis and allies was about cracking open a beer and rolling some dice with your friends. In classic the axis were a desperate hooker looking for money and smackin you with her sandals. In Global the allies are the desperate whores and they start barefoot and thirsty for the d.

    I AM TALKING FREEDOM.  When the japs came in low on pearl harbor the allies made a vow, never again, NEVER AGAIN. WHY DOES AMERICA SUCK. WHY DOES RUSSIA SUCK. WHY DO THE BRITISH SUCK. EVERYONE SUCKS. EVEN THE FRENCH SUCK. CHINA SUCKS BUT THAT IS HISTORICAL OKAY, BECAUSE AMERICA WON THE PACIFIC BY ITSELF AND WE ALL KNOW IT.

    CAN I LOSE THE GAME AS THE AXIS ONE TIME, I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO LOSE ONE TIME.

  • Sponsor

    This is all your fault Cow!.. you’re the one who taught everybody how to win as the Axis with your J1, and/or J2 strategies. HE BROKE THE GAME!.. BUUUUURN HMMMM!!  😄

  • TripleA

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

  • Sponsor

    @Cow:

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

    LOL… sorry, I’ll let you get back to your rant.

    { soapbox }

  • '13

    Apparently the rules of AnA physics do not apply in my local basement games.  In probably 100 games over two years, the Allies rule the roost in my group with about an 80% win rate.

    3 of our group play TripleA and we’re bringing a 4th into the fold.  We have good success with the Axis online, so we do realize it is odd and are at a loss to explain it  :?

    V


  • I feel what you are saying, Vold. But for different reasons.
    In our group the Axis win rate is nearly 100% but it’s very hard to come to conclusions because of it. The level of our players differs too much. The axis side usually gets a stronger total player level and in the rare circumstance that this is reversed, the allies will also not win many games. See, if Germany faces only 1 significantly weaker opponent on either Russia or the UK, the allies are so easily doomed. ALL allies Major Powers are crucial to allied victory and they CANNOT afford a weaker/weakest link anywhere in their Ranks. Even the Chinese are crucial.

    So player level has a lot of weight in who wins this game. Experience is the second most important factor. How many different axis strategies does your allied opponent(s) know, and studies on?
    What I would like to know is how the balance will be with players of equal level (which is preferrably strong) and experience…
    Last but not least: the allies need good teamwork. All the level and experience on the allied side is nullified by bad or even average teamplay. They must be on the same page all the time.

    1v1 it becomes a completely different story in our play group since all the allied powers are automatically of the same level and on the same page. Given an equal player level and experience, the allies raise from about 0% win chance to a roughly 50% win chance.

    So far I found the balance of this game is on the sharp of a knife and I hope there is no loophole anywhere that guarantees 1 side to Always win if they follow a particular strategy. …Given equal player level and experience, that is and deliberatly not mentioning the dice.

  • TripleA

    For me.

    It goes like this.

  • TripleA

    First off check this out

    If tobruk is alive, move it to alexandria, land germany air on top, buy bombers if necessary. WOW EGYPT CANNOT BE HELD UNBELIEVEABLE.

    Once egypt is italian germany air can secure it and italy will never let go. So that is your middle east gone.
    ~

    Japan is powerful, like J1 DOW or setup for a J2 so you get 3 of the cash islands.  Pretty easy stuff.
    ~

    Germany can take Russia round 6-8 without a problem.  America does not put much pressure early in the game…. early game is when germany buys the land units necessary to take Russia. It is a timing attack the german player sets, he decides all in on g6 or g7 or g8 depending on player preferences.

    ~

    Bombers are ridiculous. What germany parks 4 bombers on east poland? OH SHNAP. Wow you got bombed for 15-20 Russia? UNBELIEVABLE.

  • TripleA

    You can play the boards by themselves and realize how the axis is super strong. Then combine the boards and the axis are even better.

    What do the allies get to compensate for the lower USA production when boards are combined? 18 infantry in siberia and 2 infantry in egypt.

    Granted the 18 inf in Siberia can screw up Japan. The 2 infantry in egypt helps to hold it. However America is making 30 less ipc than he would with income combined from both boards… considering a game lasts 7 rounds before a fast axis win (this is a really fast game to make my point) that is like 210 ipc you missing out on.  You need some immediate compensation.

    My suggestion is only fair. In fact my group does 10 uk infantry strait up additional. we slap 2 red chips under there at the start of every game. Slap a Russian bomber down on archangel. That is the allies bid.


  • Axis have the same problem, if you dont win fast you will lose it is a verry tricky balance.
    If the allies can keep the axis from winning in 5 turns or at least get close to winning the axis will lose.
    That is why you can win on 2 boards and the VC count is there.

    Axis need good odds at the attacks of the UK fleet, bad dice there and they are toast. Allies can react and scramble or not. Is the attack light scramble if it is heavy be glad he is slowed somewhere else for a turn.
    Allies dont have that problem when chosing you can go everywhere heavy a longer game favors allies anyway so no rush the axis have to gamble and that can work against them.

    Ofcourse use the 2nd edition setup not the original 1 where the allied fleets are dead in the north sea.

    And what prevents UK from doing the same to germany, Wow 10 bombers from UK and US on the UK, germany gets bombed for 50 each turn. See how long germany holds out while the US liberates afrika.

  • TripleA

    If you play strictly to stop axis from obtaining a vc win, you end up losing economically to the axis.
    ~
    Problems allies face:

    Lose the middle east = no fighters for russia = dead russia. + Rich Italy can defend Europe for Germany to allow even more units attacking Russia.

    The Atlantic fleet does not even matter. You just do that as Germany to prevent the allies from moving it to convoy Italy and because you start in position to kill it easily.

    2 sub 1 ship 3 fighter 3 tactical vs 2 cruiser 1 bship (+3 scramble if he decides)…. who is the heavy favorite? Germany, also germany could care less about 2 subs and 1 bship.

    2 subs 1 fighter 1 tactical 2 bombers vs dd crusier bship (+1 scramble)… Favorite? Germany, this battle sometimes goes awry, but who cares, just lose subs and retreat, it is not a big deal at all, it is not like you are ever going to attack naval anyway, usually you pretend so the allies buy more useless destroyers and stuff.

    Japan makes USA money round 3 or 4 at the latest.

    I lost count of how many times I won in the Pacific. I noticed most players are pretty bad with Japan including Larry Harris so he probably thinks the game is balanced.

  • TripleA

    That is probably why you have some players thinking the allies are good. Their Japan is bad or they do not know the tricks to getting the middle east.

    Tricks to middle east:

    Did UK leave Tobruk alive? If yes, move it to alexandria, land germany air on top, WOW UNBELIEVABLE, now you can take Egypt IT IS SO EASY. Even if you fail the attack, just let germany hit it with all his air, then you can just march in.

    This is the trick most players do not do and most players do not attack tobruk round 1 with UK.
    ~

    Once you know all the little tricks to getting Egypt and the middle east, your Germany/Italy will be unstoppable even against full atlantic allied players.

    Once you get decent at Japan, you can make big money and hold on to it for a freaking long time. Then you will learn all the tricks to taking calcutta with maximum odds. Then you will eventually learn all the tricks to getting that last vc by taking Hawaii or NSW.

  • '16 '15 '10

    Couple points, somewhat unrelated, but pertaining to the OP.

    -It’s true that Allies need a bid in Global to be competitive vrs expert Axis (vrs novice Axis, Allies usually win because of their income advantage).  So it’s true that if you want to dispense with bids, Allies could use some extra units.

    -It’s important to keep in mind that Global tactics are driven by national objectives…so if you want Global to have more strategic variation than Revised, then try playing Global without national objectives.  Same goes for Anniversary.

    -But imho, the national objectives (along with air and naval bases) are critical to what makes Global a success–my fav A&A yet.  Namely, Global is the closest A&A has gotten to historically interesting gameplay.  In addition, unlike Revised or Anniversary, there is always a pacific battle, always a med battle, always a battle in the Atlantic, always a hard fight for China and Russia, and so on.

    -Here are a few of the most common strategic errors vrs. expert Axis that I have been seeing…

    1. Not going mostly Pacific with the USA.  Japan is immensely strong and needs to be fought aggressively.  Containing Japan is more important than saving Moscow.  It’s easier for Axis to win in the Pacific than in Europe/Africa.
    2. Faulty UK Europe tactics.  I see alot of income wasted on factories and fighters and such.  UK Europe’s first priority is containing Italy–secure Egypt, prevent Italy NOs, get the UK NO.  The 2nd priority is to get a fleet going in the North Atlantic and get max use out of the London factory.  If both USA and UK have full fleets outside London than that is way way more effective than just a USA fleet or just a UK fleet.  Given that UK starts with 3 factories, I have a hard time justifying building an additional factory…  One more max, depending on circumstances.
    3. Not getting optimal use out of ANZAC.  This is related to #1, since you need to be mostly Pacific with USA in order to get optimal use out of Anzac.  Use Anzac for ships and transports, don’t just sit on Sydney!

    Overall, the most complex aspect of the game is the Pacific battle, and this is where experience (from previous A&A games and this one) comes most in handy.


  • Could be that i suck at the axis, or that your regular opponent or you suck at the allies. No offence ofcourse.

    But since you know and i clearly missed it how does japan gain parity with the US in terms of income in 3 turns? You start at 25 ish and US will be at 70ish when at war. Not counting 15 for anzac about 15 for india en 15 for china ( dont have the board here)

    Well if you dont have any navy then the UK does not have to worry about sea lion so guess their goes the italian fleet, round 1 you cannot attack egypt, Round 2 i could shuttle stuff there just like you a few extra figs in defence will make a decent change.

    So i dont see it might be obvious.

    The axis do need to gain income parity really quicky because the income difference is around 100ipc a turn. Just a few turns will negate the complete unit advantage the axis have.

  • Sponsor

    One reason I find why the Allies sometimes win is a lack of execution from the Axis, therefore, the Axis tend to be their own worst enemy in most cases. That being said, I like what I’m reading here.

  • TripleA

    "But since you know and i clearly missed it how does japan gain parity with the US in terms of income in 3 turns? "

    If you DOW on J1, you get borneo and phil. J2 3 mroe islands and J3 the rest.

    If you DOW on J2, you get phil and 3 islands, then on J3 you get the rest.

    Sometimes you get the rest of the islands on J4, because you killed 2 inf and 3 fighters on java during j2 setting you back an island or whatever.

    It is really not that hard.

  • Sponsor

    @Cow:

    "But since you know and i clearly missed it how does japan gain parity with the US in terms of income in 3 turns? "

    If you DOW on J1, you get borneo and phil. J2 3 mroe islands and J3 the rest.

    If you DOW on J2, you get phil and 3 islands, then on J3 you get the rest.

    Sometimes you get the rest of the islands on J4, because you killed 2 inf and 3 fighters on java during j2 setting you back an island or whatever.

    It is really not that hard.

    I play with guys who rarely challenge my ability to get all Islands turn 2, because they send their India fleet toward Africa.


  • @Cow:

    "But since you know and i clearly missed it how does japan gain parity with the US in terms of income in 3 turns? "

    If you DOW on J1, you get borneo and phil. J2 3 mroe islands and J3 the rest.

    If you DOW on J2, you get phil and 3 islands, then on J3 you get the rest.

    Sometimes you get the rest of the islands on J4, because you killed 2 inf and 3 fighters on java during j2 setting you back an island or whatever.

    It is really not that hard.

    Just checked your playbook J1 starter.
    But you will lose the borneo transport so only 2 islands more to be taken, UK might even get borneo back for good measure.

    But you are at 37 US at 70 and anzac at 20 UK pac at 14.and you have to still deal with 18 russian infantry that could mess your northern border as well.

    37 to 70 is still a 33 icp gap you have to cover with just 2 transports for J2 to actualy do something with.

  • Sponsor

    @ShadowHAwk:

    @Cow:

    "But since you know and i clearly missed it how does japan gain parity with the US in terms of income in 3 turns? "

    If you DOW on J1, you get borneo and phil. J2 3 mroe islands and J3 the rest.

    If you DOW on J2, you get phil and 3 islands, then on J3 you get the rest.

    Sometimes you get the rest of the islands on J4, because you killed 2 inf and 3 fighters on java during j2 setting you back an island or whatever.

    It is really not that hard.

    Just checked your playbook J1 starter.
    But you will lose the borneo transport so only 2 islands more to be taken, UK might even get borneo back for good measure.

    But you are at 37 US at 70 and anzac at 20 UK pac at 14.and you have to still deal with 18 russian infantry that could mess your northern border as well.

    37 to 70 is still a 33 icp gap you have to cover with just 2 transports for J2 to actualy do something with.

    The transport off Borneo will be protected by the aircraft carrier off Caroline Islands, it moves there during the non combat movement phase and it’s original planes land on it after they fight in the Philippines. I’ve been on your side of the argument before, and after I played a handfull of games where I did a J1 attack… I ended up apologizing.

  • TripleA

    J1 DOW is strong. I won tournament games with it and league games. It is unbelievable against those who have not seen it before. You end up winning in the pacific by turn 7 or USA is full pacific trying to stop you while Germany and Italy wins in Europe.

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