Germany R1 RUSSIA! Viable?
So I was tinkering with the Idea of Doing Round 1 Russia attack and heres what I came up with!
Everything that is from Western Germany on is pretty much Standerd for me as far as opening moves.
But what I was thinking was from Poland 3 Infantry to Baltic States alone with 3 Tanks from Slovakia and Romania,
Id also use the Battleship and Cruser to Kill the Russian Cruser and use the Transport to Drop off 1 more Infantry and 1 Artiliary
For a Total of 4 Infantry 1 Artilary and 3 tanks to Baltic States that only has 3 Infantry.
And From Slovakia 2 Infantry to Eastern Poland with 1 Fighter and 1 Tactical Bomber.
Id Keep the 1 Infantry in Romania and move one to Hungry to get the other 4 Goin
Move 2 from Norway to Finland and get those 4 going aswell
Id move the rest of the 10 from Germany and 2 Artiliary from Germany over to Poland.
And 6 Infantry and 2 Artiliary Slovakia.
Now the Kicker is id buy 7 Mech Infantry and place it into Germany for round 2.
After frances fall and everything said yeah id miss out on the 5 IPCs from being netural with Russia but i took out 5 russian Infantry (15 icps worth) of men which is well worth it and caught him off guard
Not only that but if he plans to counter attack with a sizable force its more men he will loose and get caught up in the grinder.
cause Germany round 2 ill have 17 Infantry 2 artiliary and my airforce to contest with. not only that but ill have 69 ipcs worth of Units to buy which i would do 7 Tanks and 7 more mech plus the 6 comming back from France that will make a non combat to Germany it self plus any left over Mech aswell.
Setting up a nice Round 3 push into Lenningrad!
I just dont see from the russian point of view that the only real counter it would have is to go with 7 Infantry 1 Artiliary and its 2 fighters and 1 Tactical to try to take out my “4 infantry 1 Artiliary and 3 tanks”
I feel that it sets up russia to loose to many men right off the bat when right behind on round 2 is 17 men and the Entire Germen Airforce… it leaves it up to be a Interesting set up cause by round 3 ill have 14 tanks and 7 Mech ready to go any which way and russia wont have the numbers to counter punch and by round 4 im already doing Stratigic Bombing in Moscow.
ItIsILeClerc last edited by
Lt. Aldo Raine says:
I have not studied on this but my ‘Allied instinct’ tells me a word: strafe. Strafe the Nazi and build up. So the Nazi cannot attack again. Untill his troops from France arrive, that is. Then our comrades must start retreating of course but the point is to delay this R1 attack so that it is basically the same as a R3 attack. In terms of when the Nazi can arrive at the gates of Moscow.
And when the Nazi arrives there, I will release Donny Donowitz the Bear(***). Â ;-).
I hope you have seen Inglorious Basterds so you understand what I am saying. In case you haven’t: it is over-the-top hilarious!
But seriously, The above course of events is exactly what I have been able to do a number of times against a R2 against Russia, so maybe it works as well against R1. Who knows. Be prepared!
It should be mandated to see Inglrious Basterds!.. the film is absolutly Briliant!..
But my reasoning behind it is even if the russians Strafe me it still should be to my advantage… ill have the reserve units comming up fast plus the 10 Infantry in Poland pushing in next… with Mech…
I have been only able to test this out my self being imparshal but still … im curious to see how it would work out in RL events…
yeah Russia can try to push back but with a smaller economey vs Germany and it grinding men away… Once the fast Units (Mech,Tanks) Roll in … Russia wont have a stack to fall back in Moscow thats Sizable … not only that at Round 3,4 i can start Stratigic Bombing it.
And the United States cant do ANYTHING effective till at minimum Round 5 but by then im at the Gate!..
As far as russia trying to prevent this… Â clearly there is no way to prevent a Round 1…
and also it will compound the situation if Japan also dose a J1 russia… and not by attacking them directly but Droping off units in the far East its not much but every point away from Russia down the road is one less unit to help defend…
Dont worry ill get my 100 Scalps!
Very interesting planâ€¦ I would purchase 6 mech and a tank though. Still 7 units and you get another armor.
Just curious but did you attack the British fleet?
I assume if the Russian CA hits your taking a hit on the BB. Thatâ€s a risky place to be with that sub in the Baltic because when combined with his planes he could take out your navy without losing a plane. Itâ€s nice to have that navy to shuttle troops to Leningrad.
Itâ€s a nice trap move to draw in more units but as ItIsILeClerc said he would just stafe. It really depends on whatâ€s left from the attack on the Baltic States.
I usually attack East Poland with 5 tanks and the 2 inf. He has only 3 units that border East Poland assuming Bessarabia is destroyed (2inf + fighter). I let Italy take Bulgaria.
As with any round 1 attack on Russia comes a risk though. I really like your plan. Russia is going to stall you at least one round so you might as well get it out of the way.
Kills Russian troops which would otherwise move back out of range.
Germany can’t win without conquering at least most of Russia. Early start could mean an early win.
Catches the allies off guard and can get in deep before the rest of the allies are in position to intercede. Especially if Japan doesn’t bring the US into the war by attacking the allies.
Allies are spread out and out of position early; Russia is spread out and out of position early. G1 attack takes advantage of this before the allies can start concentrating.
Lose the 5 IPC peace bonus
Russia gains 5 IPC war bonus unless Germany put a naval unit in sz125 (weakening attack against the RN+RAF)
Pulling the bb out of the opening attacks on the RN either leaves the attacks weak and greatly increases the odds of heavy Luftwaffe losses and the chance that some/majority of the RN will still be afloat on UK1. Or it gives up attacking one of sz110/sz111 which gives the RN a core of units to build a fleet around.
No Sea Lion threat leaves Italy vulnerable to UK moving against them in force and building units in Africa and maybe ME early.
-Poor odds in sz115 if Russia scrambles the fighter. Only 33% for Germany unless they bring an air unit (further weakening odds against either the RN or in E. Pol. A retreat from this battle exposes the remaining German ships open to attack on R1, potentially losing the transport and loaded units who couldn’t disembark.
If air is brought to sz115 and Russia doesn’t scramble and the sub dives, Russia can counter attack with sub + 3 air if they’re safe to land somewhere.
If Germany loses it’s navy, especially the transport, Russia could potentially push some troops into Scandinavia knowing Germany can’t reinforce with the transport for a 21 IPC swing each turn (+11 for USSR and -10 for Germany).
Even slightly below average dice in Baltic States, especially if Germany doesn’t bring the 2 troops brought by sea, could leave 3 expensive tanks vulnerable to a counter.
I think that your strat can be effective, but I’m concerned with how the naval situation plays out; both in the Atlantic and in the Baltic). London could build up a strong fleet for early landings either in Scandinavia or W. Europe since they’re freed from a threat of a SL and there’s likely some combination of a weaker Luftwaffe, stronger starting RN, or both. The balance of power early on favors the Germans as they push into Russia. But they need to keep those troops flowing east. An early allied landing or even threat of one can really sap or even stop it almost completely.
Overall, I think a G1 can be effective but there are a lot of variables to consider. What’s Japan doing while Germany goes for the G1 Barbarossa? How do the allies respond to such an attack? I can’t say that I’ve seen a G1 Barb exactly as you describe, but I have seen quite a few with minor variables in where Germany attacks, what units they use where, and what the buy is. I’ve seen some fail spectacularly with Berlin eventually being taken by Russia and I’ve seen others work with resounding success. I’ve also experienced the exact same strat working well in one game and failing in another due to dice or difference in allied play.
A G1 Barbarossa can be very fun to play and can work out for the axis. And it’s a quiver I keep in my axis play partly due to effectiveness and partly for the fun factor and to keep things fresh. The fact that so many different strategies (both axis and allied) is part of what keeps G40 fun to play again and again and again and . … . well you get the point! Experiment and find what works for you and against the opponents you play; be it a single friend, a local playgroup, or on this forum.
Oh right, forgot that Germany can’t get an air unit to S.Italy for Italy to have the potential to scramble 3 fighters into s97. Unless Germany forgoes hitting either sz110/sz111.
There has been a poll on this some time ago. Opinions varied, but a solid majority thought that a G1 attack on Russia was not a good idea. Here’s another thread where the plan was extensively discussed. And there are more if you go looking for them.
Just posting this to share existing knowledge and ideas.
Let’s think about this … Remember you can’t attack everything at once ad there are allways calculated risks to everything… With that being said!
The Main goal for Attacking Russiaround 1 is to cause confusion, to catch them off guard, and to take away as many men and set your self up for succsuss!
Your all wondering what I do as far as my navel with England sure!
I attack sea zone 111 with 2 subs 1 fighter 1 tactical and 1 Stratigic bomber!
And sea zone 110 with 2 subs 3 fighters and 3 tactical and 1 Stratigic bomber
The remaining sub I use in 106 it’s a fair fight and 50/50 let luck play it’s roll!
Now I find your putting to much emphasis on sea zone 115 with the battleship and cruser with my transport! Frankly speaking war is won with boots on the ground and not in the sea!
And I’ll explain say I win Baltic states round 1 I’ll have 4 infantry 1 Artiliary and 3 tanks there.
And when Russia goes round 1 and attacks the battleship and cruser it has no counter offensive agenst Baltic states at all it’s planes are used else where and all it can muster up is 7 Infantry and 1artiliary. Far to weak to attempt to take back Baltic states. So when Germany round 2 comes along I can further renforce it with the 10 Infantry from now Poland that was non combat moved there round 1 and my Roud 1 buy (1 tank,6 mech).
Novgorod can only produce 3 units there at a time and even if it renforces it with its 2 mechs 2 tanks 2 fighters and 1 tactical plus 6 more units from its previous 2 round … It will still fall round 3 regardless …
Baltic states will have its 4 men and 1 Artiliary 3 tanks from round 1 there… Round 2 will further renforce it with 10 men 2 Artiliary and 1 tank ,6 mech from its round 1 buy for a potential total of 14 men 3 Artiliary 4 tanks and 6 mech going round 3 not counting the potential wheight of the Germany Airforce or the 7 infantry marching from Finland to Karelia
And even if it kills or attacks my Fleat in 115 it’s fate will be sealed cause again it won’t be able to take back Baltic states plus if it marches west to Finland it’s gonna attack me with what 5 infantry with no planes (since there being used for sea zone 115) and it’s gonna attack 7 infantry? At a defense factor of 2 with 5 infantry at 1? I just don’t see it.
As far as Italy the game is not won or loss with Italy by far it’s a side show if Germany takes Russia by round 6 it’s to late for America to come to war to even begin to help and England is to pre occupied for atlest 3-4 round with Italy and if Italy stumbles in Africa guess what welcome to the Italian Atlantic wall that further secures the German victory in the west .
Not only that if Novgorod falls with all it’s Airforce tanks and mech in there to Germany you might aswell forfit the game…
England horrasing Italy and Germany isn’t gonna stifle there victory over Russia and worrying about " what if" isn’t how this game is played there will allways be an inherent risk in everything you do it jus has to be worth it in the end!
Fellas… “May the dice be forever in your favor”
My point about sz115 is that Germany only has about a 1/3 chance of winning that battle if the Russian fighter scrambles. Normally an attacker can ignore a sub, but once a battle starts the defender has the choice of whether the sub participates or not. If Germany loses that battle, then they won’t be able to drop of extra units for the assault on the Baltic States.
So in 2/3rds of these G1 openers, you have only have 3 inf and 2 arm attacking Baltic States. Because after looking at the map some more, I’m wondering how exactly you’re getting 3 tanks into Baltic States. I can only see 2 that can reach (Pol & Slov/Hungary). You could noncombat the Romanian tank assuming you win in E. Poland. But he can’t reach in time for combat. On average you can expect to lose an infantry or two in the attack, so now you have 4-5 units there after you bring the Romanian tank over. And that could easily be lower if the defenders get slightly above average dice or the attackers get slightly lower than average dice. With 4-5 units there, including 3 expensive and important armor units, that’s a prime spot for a counter.
Say Russia didn’t scramble or Germany wins the sz115 battle, than Russia’s probably not going to attack Baltic States in most cases. That frees up the air to hit sz115, especially if the Russian sub dived on G1 and is available on R1. And no, Russia wouldn’t go after Finland on R1. Russia could evac most of the troops out of Novgorod and still be able to hold it in some cases on G2 by staging it’s air there, bringing their northern troops down, and building units there. Granted it depends on whether that German transport is still around to bring more troops into the fight, how many (if any) troops Germany lost in Baltic States, and how much air power Germany has in range.
Any Russian move north would be dependant on the situation at hand and would happen on R2, not R1. But I would definitely consider it as Russia if Germany had no transport left. If Novgorod can hold and Germany brings his Finnish troops into range, I’d consider going north as Belarus wouldn’t be safe for them and going to Archangel likely means that the Germans can beat those units to Moscow. If Novgorod couldn’t hold on R2, then it’s time to consider whether to stake the northern troops as sacrificial goats and hope they take some Germans with them or hold north of the city and hope they get lucky against the Finnish troops in order to break into some NO bonus money.
But no Russian commander worth his salt would try making a stand anywhere he didn’t have good odds except at the gates of Moscow. So it’s unlikely that you’ll be fortunate enough to take out that much Russian equipment that early in the game. And if your opponent does so, then odds are it really doesn’t matter what round you launch your invasion in or what strat you use.
As far as UK goes, there have been plenty of games where Moscow fell and the allies were still very much in the fight because UK had a strong presence in the Med, Africa, and the ME. Without the threat of a SL, UK can build up there that much sooner. I’m not saying that it’s the end of the world for the axis if this happens. And I’m not saying that your strat is doomed to failure. I was just pointing out some things that concerned me since you did post your strat and ask for opinions.
questioneer last edited by
Yes there is a G1 gambit but against experienced players who can weather the storm it fails most of the time. Seen it, but haven’t played it much though, so take that opinion with a grain of salt.