• Should you take out the fleet in Hawaii???


  • Uhm, you should take a moment to look thru some other threads, this topic has been debated not too long ago.


  • In other words, yes, you should.


  • I prefer using all Japan’s air support to attack eurasia instead of using it up on Pearl Harbor. Charging China with all five planes and transports full of infantry is very effective. I don’t worry about the US Pacific Fleet at this point because it really isn’t much of a threat. After consolidating much of Asia, I have the extra resources to go back and build up a pacific fleet.


  • China can be taken without using all 5 planes. THat’s just overkill. Plus the fleet at Pearl Harbor is too much of a plum to remain unplucked.


  • The only way can see it might pay to leave the US Hawaii fleet untouched is if you take Australia T1. This way you “pinch” the fleet between 2 more-or-less equal fleets, and they must make hard choices about what to do next.

    Otherwise, just waste the USA fleet T1, while protecting your capital ships from harm in the counterattack; best way to do this–seize Hawaii as well…

    Ozone27

    P.S. TG is also right about the balance of FTR’s issue: You can attack and seize Hawaii (both land & sea) while ALSO attacking China w/ 3 FTR T1. Do it…

    [ This Message was edited by: Ozone27 on 2002-03-07 21:09 ]


  • Well the problem with not Pearl Harboring on T1 (to invade China or Australia) is that now Japan has to faced the combined US Pacific Fleet, instead or two seperate, and less powerful attack. Now instead of 1 sub, 1 carrier, 1 ftr, the Japan Navy has to face 1 transport, 1 sub, 1 carrier, 2 ftrs, and 1 battleship. This is an outcome that is very much in doubt for Japan. I do agree with Ozone that Hawaii should be taken in the process if you’re playing with 2-hit bb. Otherwise use the transport as fodder.


  • Battleships suck unless they are 2 hit
    The part about taking Austrailia; that always needs to be done turn 2 or 3

  • '19 Moderator

    The only reason I see to leave out the pearl atack is if you think it will draw the US out of Europe. Germany can handle russia and Britain if the Us stays in the pacific. At the same time the Japs can probably hold off the US for a long time in the pacific if they play defencive in the ocean and atack Asia


  • Always


  • Yes… always.


  • Always


  • …i won’t bother sayin ‘always’ I think you guys have got it covered


  • good point dezrtfish


  • i tried the pearl harbor thing more then once. Japan should focus its naval resources against india and china. attacking the US fleet is fruitles, because america could counterattack with fighters, a bomber and a battle ship and more. japan’s bread basket is Asia. go for asia and pinch russia be4 america pinches germany.


  • Asuming that you don’t protect your fleet with transports and are not interested in 2 hit BB will Japanese’s fleet suffer.
    Besides even if both fleets are destroyed (given this outcome)
    USA’s forces are more severly hit
    Japan’s losses
    2 BB
    2 fighters
    1 aircraft carrier
    1 sub

    USA’s losses
    1 BB
    3 fighters
    1 bomber
    1 aircraft carrier
    1 sub
    1 transport

    If USA’s forces aren’t hit, they could build up in the Atlantic or even take the war to Japan’s homefront by island hopping.


  • Japan should focus its naval resources against India and China. Attacking the US fleet is fruitless, because America could counterattack with fighters, a bomber and a battleship and more.

    Which is exactly why you take Hawaiian Islands while attacking the SZ surrounding it! You can take China AT THE SAME TIME! Check this out:
    Purchase 1 INF, 1 FTR and a TR. Save 2 IPC’s for later.
    Attack Move: TR in Sea of Japan loads 1 INF from Japan Home Islands, 1 from Wake Island, moves to Hawaii SZ and lands them on Hawaii. 1 FTR from Carolines (on CV) moves into Hawaii w/ 1 move left.
    1 BB, 1 CV from Carolines
    move to Hawaii SZ. 1 SUB from Solomons joins them. Throw in 1 FTR from Philippines (4 movement points), 1 BMR from Japan HI and the BB from Sea of Japan.
    Attack China with 2 INF from Manchuria, 1 INF from Kwangtung, 1 FTR from French IndoChina-Burma, 1 FTR from Manchuria, and 1 from Japan HI.
    Battle is joined; Now you’ve got 3 INF 3FTR against 2 INF 1 FTR in China. You should win w/ 2 INF (maybe even lose a FTR on this one if you have to to ensure you keep the territory). You’ve got 2 BB, 1 BMR, 1 FTR, 1 SUB and 1 CV (not counting the TR, which is a very unacceptable casualty) vs. 1 FTR, 1 CV, 1 SUB in Hawaii SZ. Shouldn’t be a problem-lose the SUB 1st the FTR 2nd if you must–remember at least 1 FTR is virtually guarunteed to be landing on the CV shortly. USA’s best bet is to withdraw the SUB if possible. Finally you’ve got 2 INF, 1 FTR vs. 1 INF in Hawaiian Islands–should be a total walkover.
    Non Combat: FTR in Hawaiian Islands lands on the CV there. FTRS in China land in French IndoChina-Burma and Manchuria where appropriate (though neither should be completely without FTR cover). BMR lands in Manchuria. 1 INF from Kwangtung moves to French IndoChina-Burma. 1 INF boards the TR in Philippines and moves to Sea of Japan. Loads an additional INF from Japan HI and lands both INF on Manchuria.
    Place all units on Japan HI and collect 28 IPC’s. You now have 30 in hand.
    If USA dares to strike, it will only be 1 BB, possibly 1 SUB, 1 FTR and a BMR (with maybe a TR for fodder) vs. 2 BB’s, 1 FTR, 1 CV and a TR. Do the math. Not only that, but you’ve got 8 INF in Asia–gearing up for a BIG push, plus a BMR within striking distance of Moscow. Next turn you can bring in 2 INF and an ARM for reinforcements.

    You don’t have to sacrifice Asia to lay the hurt on the USA. Nor vice verse…

    Ozone27

    [ This Message was edited by: Ozone27 on 2002-03-11 20:53 ]


  • Yes your strats is sound since it removes the extra ftr from landing in Hawaii. But why not transfer one fighter from China to Hawaii so you can pit three ftrs at Pearl Harbor? I think this would leave you better off defensively. Also why purchase 1 ftr? I think a transport and inf are better suited as Japan already has a large airforce and you need to get as many troops in Asia as possible.


  • An extra fighter from Japan HI or Manchuria would be cool, but you couldn’t land (the 2 FTR’s in Hawaii have 1 and 0 movement left respectively and the CV holds only 2). The other option would be to fly one in on NonCom but that leaves a FTR doing nothing on Combat Move, which I dislike.

    The reason I’d purchase another fighter is basically that FTR’s are Japan’s ARM. You can use them on both Sea and Land Zones so they are a good choice for japan, whose involved in both areas. I suppose you could just save the 14 IPCs and get something else later, but I prefer to maintain massive fighter superiority. Its up to you.

    My point though wasn’t necessarily “this is what you should do” only that it is possible to defeat both USA at Sea and build up on Asia T1 while sacrificing neither.

    Ozone27


  • Oh now I get it–you meant instead of 1 FTR,
    1 INF, 1 TR purchasing 2 TR, 3 INF instead! Yeah, that would be a good move. 😁 Sorry about my confusion…

    Ozone27


  • Sure no problem. The reason why I suggested three fighters instead of two was it order to absorb hits after Pearl Harbor. Most likely the defending player will hit for two so I remove the sub and 1 ftr. This leaves 2 ftrs ready to land on the carrier. In order to make up for China, I would instead send the bomber to Asia for attack. With 2 BB, 2 ftrs I don’t think you’ll have to worry about not getting enough hits. The great thing is that on the next turn I can then use the bomber to strat bomb Russia! Besides bombers don’t ake for great defence against an inevitable US counterattack. Again this is just my personal taste.


  • I get what you are saying, but the only FTR that can make landfall at Hawaiian Islands at all is the one on the CV, and it only has 1 move left afterward. Therefore, to make the attack you have to move the CV to the Hawaiian Islands SZ. This necessitates that you can only use 1 FTR TOTAL in the SZ battle, because all fighters must have a way to land at the end of the turn. If I designate both FTRs to land on the CV, that’s all I can get, 'cuz that’s all that can land (whether they’re destroyed or not). That’s why I use the Philippines FTR in the attack–Hawaii is just about the only place it can legally be used to attack T1.

    If I hold a FTR in Manchuria or Japan HI out of any battles in Asia, then I can land it on the CV on NonCombat (providing that USA has destroyed the one I used to attack the SZ) for 2 FTR’s defensively. But I personally do not think the extra FTR is that necessary (though it is certainly desirable), for reasons stated above.

    Alternatively if I chose to attack only the SZ and not the Islands (or to only attack the Islands with 2 INF or 1 ARM and NO FTR), then I could use up to 3 planes in the attack, since the one on the CV at the start of the game can land on an island nearby, if it must.The key is that all planes involved in an attack must have a legal landing place–or they can’t attack!

    The BMR can land on Manchuria after an attack on Hawaiian Islands SZ–putting it in a position where it can attack Moscow T2.

    Ozone27

    [ This Message was edited by: Ozone27 on 2002-03-12 17:57 ]

    [ This Message was edited by: Ozone27 on 2002-03-12 17:59 ]


  • You said that all fighters (3) must have a way to land at the end of the turn. If I designate both FTRs to land on the carrier, that’s all I can get, whether they’re destroyed or not. Now I did some play testing with the CD ROM game of A&A and found out that you don’t need to designate which ftr lands on the carrier before the battle actually starts. Only after the battle do you decide where the planes must land. So if you plan to land 3 planes on the carrier and 1 is destroyed, then you can land the remaining two on the carrier.

    Of course I could be wrong and this may just be another bug in the A&A CD version (which isn’t the first time). Can someone shed some light on this?

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