• I’m playing a game of A&A 1914 tomorrow and plan to advance on France as my main objective. I’d like suggestions from you as to the best way to assault France.
    Cheers


  • Hi,
    well, it pretty much depends on france player, but my fav is to get Switzerland on G1(this will force france spread defense between lorraine and burgundy) push hard on belgium and lorraine too. Its crucial to get as many fighters as possible there ASAP, they give you huge advantage in massive battles (France already has one in reach of front, so you really need them there quickly).
    Buy lots of inf too, you will need them as cannon fodder.
    Later in game, tanks give you some advantage when attacking, but they are more efective in smaller battles (western front is definitetly not).


  • @Starlight:

    I’m playing a game of A&A 1914 tomorrow and plan to advance on France as my main objective. I’d like suggestions from you as to the best way to assault France.
    Cheers

    If you’re making advancing on France your main objective, you will lose.  Germany and AH need to concentrate on killing Russia or forcing the Russian Revolution (preferred) first in order to win.  Hold the line in Belgium until troops from the east can start heading west.  Start building tanks as soon as you can, and send them west along with your leftover troops from the eastern campaign.  The key to a CP victory is knocking out Russia early, not France.  Besides, taking out France early is nearly impossible if the Brits are doing their job.


  • Hello, all,

    I have had a general strategy for Deutschland against Frankreich that has worked well, every time (6 times now).

    Germany has so many land units in the beginning that they can simply go all-out navy-builds if they use their troops efficiently (something the Germans were usually known for). By using a land strategy of “Boom-and-Bust” sending overwhelming forces into one territory at a time, Germany loses very few soldiers. You will then move all armies in West and Central Germany to the west (only East Prussia and Silesia need to hold down Russia, especially when the Austro-Hungarian and Turkish players are attacking them).

    Following this rule, the best thing to do on land would be to send all 14 infantry and 6 artillery into Belgium. On the second turn, use all 30-something units available (including Munich forces) to take Lorraine. Third, take Picardy. Fourth, storm into the capital with about 30-something units. And finally, the Berlin force of nearly 20 units will be “having lunch in Paris”.

    As for its navy, the Germans can become a nightmare for the UK if they spend all on 2, and later 3-4 battleships, per turn. The Brits, and later the Americans, do not stand a chance on the high seas.

    Once again, this strategy has worked very well for me, and I would be delighted to see how it comes out with someone else.

    • Chris

  • @Preussener:

    Hello, all,

    Following this rule, the best thing to do on land would be to send all 14 infantry and 6 artillery into Belgium. On the second turn, use all 30-something units available (including Munich forces) to take Lorraine. Third, take Picardy. Fourth, storm into the capital with about 30-something units. And finally, the Berlin force of nearly 20 units will be “having lunch in Paris”.

    Which forces should take Picardy R3 ? As France you can produce every turn 8 Inf which creates a massive resistance against the attackers.

    Lets see how France acts R1 after Belgium was taken by Germany:

    It builts 8 Inf .

    6 Inf + 2 Art from Burgundy to Lorraine makes 12 Inf 4 Art + one Fighter from Paris in Lorraine.
    6 Inf + 2 Art from Paris to Picardie, 1 Inf from Brest to Picardie makes 13 Inf + 4 Art in Picardie.
    1 Inf from Bordeaux to Burgundy.
    2 Inf from Marocco/Algeria to Portugal makes 5 Inf + 1 Art that could be shipped to Picardie in the next Round.

    R2 Germany attacks Lorraine from Belgium (lets say they suffered two hits R1 so 12 Inf 6 Art) and Alsace (11Inf 3 Art).

    Makes 23 Inf + 9 Art against 12 Inf 4 Art 1 Fighter.

    Battle calc says GE takes Lorraine and looses 33 IPcs so it has 12 Inf and 9 Art in Lorraine left.
    In Belgium were 9 Inf and 4 Art from R1 Setups of Kiel/Hannover.

    France builts 8 Infantry.
    8 Infantry built in R1 go from Paris to Burgundy so it has 9 Inf there. (or they could throw everything into Picardie!)
    5 Inf and 1 Art were shipped from Portugal to Picardie so it has now 18 Inf and 5 Art awaiting German troops from Belgium and Lorraine Round 3.  (All-in scenario would mean 27 Inf 5 Art of France in Picardie)

    Another Question is how many german units were left in Belgium and Lorraine to make sure to hold this tts
    (possible British amphibous assault in Belgium, French troops from Burgundy could cut off the whole German army).

    I cannot see how GE could take Picardy R3 - if you play strictly defensive with the Frenchies - and we didnt even mentioned the BEF yet…

    I agree with you that Germany should go into a massive naval build up. But on the land the OHL should throw everything against the Russians (troops from Preußen, Schlesien, Berlin and Hannover), only take Belgium but then play defensly on the western front.
    After the fall of the tsar the CPs must (!) move towards India before the Turks have surrenderd.

    And maybe risk a naval battle for the Atlantic with all these German Battleships build in the first 3 Rounds…

    I still believe that the key to win this game for the CPs is the Austrian player.


  • I to have found that as the CP’s you should, when it is opportune and practical, fight for the seas. I have now a 4 game win streak because I refused to give up the naval fight, and used transports to rapidly crush russia and then using them to get troops quickly from berlin to holland, cutting to the distance from 5 spaces to 4 😛


  • For better game balancing besides more powerful USW and one additional german cruiser near East Africa, I suggest one german transport in the North Sea. Britain has transports of course, France has 3 (!) transports, even Austria and Italy do have one from the start.
    Why the Hochseeflotte is represented so weakly is beyond me…


  • The way to attack is from two territories into one. By the time Germany reaches Paris, their forces have consolidated (somewhat like a snowball) into a large army at the capital. However, if you send the Hanover or Berlin armies to Russia instead, you run the risk of not having enough to take France (though you could if you were decently lucky). I send all forces West, except for a minimal force on the Eastern Front. By using all this, you have a very good “buffer” of troops.

    @Chacmool (on land strategy):
    If France puts their dozens units in Lorraine, they get easily crushed by a full German attack from Belgium and Munich (and the Ruhr, if you play with 2-move).
    If, on the other hand, France puts all their armies in Picardy (or even Burgundy), you can simply build one more turn when you once again have a force nearly double what the French have. Just remember to resist the urge, and to not advance until you have enormous forces ready to swiftly and surely destroy the opponent.
    As you pointed out, the French can send 8 infantry to the front each turn. However, the Germans essentially have a dozen infantry and 3 or 4 artillery (along with planes when you’re this rich) coming in each “wave”. Therefore, they can take Picardy with minimal effort.

    @Chacmool (Sea-strat):
    As long as the Kaiserliche Marine is pumping out 2-4 battleships per turn, the Brits can say “Au revoire” to the French coasts. (The Portuguese would meet a similar fate, too.)

    The Germans are essentially fighting a one-front war against only France (the ideal situation for Germany).

    @Gtsg:
    I hear you also tried a naval approach. How exactly did the transports work?

  • Customizer

    My only question with this “snowball” strategy is: what is France doing while you’re combining all of your troops into one territory? Why wouldn’t they just go around you and drive through high-IPC areas like Munich and Berlin?


  • @Gtsg:
    I hear you also tried a naval approach. How exactly did the transports work?

    yes, I normally buy one transport and sub round one and round 2 it goes to russia ( my fleet stays in port, consolidate my 2 subs from seazone 5 to 10, and hit the canadian cruiser and tranny with the 2 subs in seazone 7). I have found that if you use the baltic as your sea and your german fleet as a shield and constantly adding ships (my golden standart is no more than 18 IPS’s) it is verry hard for the allies to break.  my preference goes to cruisers and subs however because subs can threaten seazone 8 and 9 from 10 and cruisers, if the allies are sloppy, can also hit seazone 8 😛 . now transports russia first !!! and no more than 4 transports are needed so 1 every turn in the beginning is doable and of course luck to survive the mines :p. once your in the seazone leave the transports in the seazone and use your reinforcements from poland to enter the transports do not move them untill russia is finished so you can threaten finland, livonia, karelia and with decent teamwork from the other CP’s russia is fighting a 4 front war that is to much :p.

    and once you are finished with russia use the transports to shuttle between berlin and holland while the fleet is used to protect your logistics 😛  it seems to work against my friends 😄 ( mind you we are no pro’s but we are no noobs either so yeah we love this game and we only play OOB)


  • @Preussener:

    @Chacmool (on land strategy):
    If France puts their dozens units in Lorraine, they get easily crushed by a full German attack from Belgium and Munich (and the Ruhr, if you play with 2-move).
    Therefore, they can take Picardy with minimal effort.

    @

    You cannot attack Lorraine from Ruhr if you play with the 2-movement-rule because its a hostile tt. You can only move 2-tt into friendly or contested zones.

    Well as I pointed out earlier, with its initial forces Germany can not take Picardy with “minimal effort”. I would say its nearly impossible if France plays as I described it earlier. Maybe I need a battle report from you ;-). You didn`t answered what happens to Belgium. Do you risk that the big german snowball is getting out of supply letting the Brits land there R2/R3?


  • @Chacmool:

    @Preussener:

    @Chacmool (on land strategy):
    If France puts their dozens units in Lorraine, they get easily crushed by a full German attack from Belgium and Munich (and the Ruhr, if you play with 2-move).
    Therefore, they can take Picardy with minimal effort.

    @

    You cannot attack Lorraine from Ruhr if you play with the 2-movement-rule because its a hostile tt. You can only move 2-tt into friendly or contested zones.

    Well as I pointed out earlier, with its initial forces Germany can not take Picardy with “minimal effort”. I would say its nearly impossible if France plays as I described it earlier. Maybe I need a battle report from you ;-). You didn`t answered what happens to Belgium. Do you risk that the big german snowball is getting out of supply letting the Brits land there R2/R3?

    First, thanks for the clarification. I have not played 2-move that way before.
    However, I have always won with this strategy with 1-move (i.e. Munich and former-Ruhr/Alsace forces are all that are needed for Lorraine).

    As for Belgium, a good general rule is to move into a stronger territory in the next turn (like moving all forces to Lorraine). If France is foolish enough to subsequently move all its forces into Belgium, you can then move in and overwhelm them. If the French player is a little more wise, you simply allow another wave of troops to arrive for one turn (Kiel/Hanover forces if 1-move, Berlin if 2-move).
    After that, you can easily storm into Picardy.

    Remember, France is producing only ~25 IPC’s per turn, while Germany is sending about 40 IPC’s worth per turn (preferably with newly-bought fighters, for extra firepower).

    Finally, there is really no chance of Britain landing in France when Germany is making 2-4 battleships per turn (and has destroyed much of the initial Royal and French navies). That is the purpose of going all/mostly naval builds.


  • Let’s look at the OOB Paris rush + naval buildup in a vacuum, with Low Luck for consistency.

    G1 purchase: 2 BB, 1 inf, 2 art = 0 IPCs

    Movement:
    14 inf, 6 art->Belgium
    9 inf, 4 art, 1 fig->Ruhr
    11 inf, 3 art->Alsace
    13 inf, 3 art->Hanover
    2 sub->Canadian fleet
    High Seas Fleet->Royal Navy
    Prussia & Silesia hold/do stuff on the Eastern Front
    G takes Nigeria, Fr. Eq. Afr., and P. E. Afr.

    G1 combat:
    Belgium falls, G loses 2 inf.
    Canadian fleet destroyed, G loses 0-1 subs
    Royal Navy destroyed, G loses 2 subs average

    G collects 40 IPCs, end with 40.

    F1 purchase: 8 inf = 0 IPCs
    Movement:
    18 inf, 6 art, 1 fig->Picardy (leaving 1 in Lorraine)
    Bordeaux inf->Burgundy
    Tunisia inf->activate Albania
    Algeria inf->Sp. Morocco
    Morocco inf->Portugal
    Fr. W. Afr. inf->Gold Coast
    2 BB, 1 CA-> Canada SZ

    F1 combat: Canada SZ retaken

    F collects 26 IPCs, end with 26.

    The Western Front: G: 12 inf, 6 art/F: 24 inf, 8 art, 1 fig

    G2 purchase: 2 BB, 1 inf, 2 fig = 1 IPC

    Movement:
    23 inf, 6 art, 1 fig->Lorraine
    9 inf, 4 art->Belgium
    13 inf, 3 art->Ruhr
    1 inf, 2 art->Hanover
    High Seas fleet pulls back to Kiel SZ to repair next turn

    G2 combat:
    Lorraine falls, say G lost nothing

    From this point forth, we will assume G has 5 IPC in Africa
    G collects 40 IPCs, end with 41.

    F2 purchase: 8 inf = 2 IPCs
    Movement:
    31 inf, 8 art, 1 fig->Burgundy (leaving 1 in Picardy)
    Portugal 1 inf, 1 art->Brest
    1 Canadian TT, 1 Italian TT-> Portugal SZ
    Canadian navy->Brest SZ

    F collects 24 IPCs, end with 26.

    The Western Front: G: 23 inf, 9 art, 1 fig/F: 32 inf, 8 art, 1 fig
    High Seas Fleet: 5 BB, 2 CA

    G3 purchase: 2 BB, 1 inf, 2 fig = 2 IPC

    Movement:
    32 inf, 13 art, 1 fig->Picardy
    13 inf, 3 art->Belgium
    1 inf, 2 art, 2 fig->Ruhr
    1 inf->Hanover
    High Seas->Scotland SZ (to avoid mines)

    G3 combat:
    Picardy falls, say G lost nothing

    G collects 42 IPCs, end with 44.

    F3 purchase: 8 inf = 2 IPCs
    Movement:
    31 inf, 9 art, 1 fig->Paris (leaving 1 inf in Burgundy)
    Portugal 3 inf, Sp. Morocco inf->Bordeaux

    F collects 22 IPCs, end with 24.

    The Western Front: G: 32 inf, 13 art, 1 fig/F: 40 inf, 9 art, 1 fig
    High Seas Fleet: 5 BB, 2 CA

    G4 purchase 10 inf, 2 art, 1 fig=0 IPCs

    Movement:
    13 inf, 3 art, 2 fig->Picardy
    1 inf, 2 art->Belgium
    1 inf, 2 fig->Ruhr
    1 inf->Hanover
    G can take out French fleet by going through 2 mined SZ if they wish

    G collects 40, end with 40.

    F4 purchase: 8 inf = 0 IPCs

    Movement: 4 Bordeaux inf->Paris

    F collects 22 IPCs, end with 22

    The Western Front: G 45 inf, 16 art, 3 fig/F: 52 inf, 9 art, 1 fig

    Round 5 result: G: 15 inf, 16 art, 3 fig/F: 22 inf, 9 art->G: 16 inf, 18 art, 5 fig/F: 31 inf, 9 art (R6 beginning)
    Round 6 result: G: 1 inf, 17 art, 1 fig/F: 9 inf, 9 art->G: 2 inf, 17 art, 1 fig/F: 14 inf 9 art (R7 beginning)
    Round 7 result: G: 1 inf, 7 art, 1 fig/F: 1 inf, 9 art->G: 2 inf, 7 art, 1 fig/F: 6 inf, 9 art (R8 beginning)
    Round 8 result: G: 1 inf, 1 art, 1 fig/F: 1 inf, 8 art->G: 11 inf, 3 art, 2 fig/F: 11 inf, 9 art (R9 beginning)
    Round 9 result: G: 2 inf, 3 art, 1 fig/F: 4 inf, 9 art->G: 14 inf, 4 art, 1 fig/F: 16 inf, 9 art (R10 beginning)

    So while you may be just starting to overwhelm Paris, it’s taken you 10 rounds to do so. And one of Italy or Russia should be doing very well since Austria can’t hold them both off and the Ottomans’ full attention is on the Brits (since all of Britain’s money is going to India because they can’t get across the channel), and Germany had to stop buying navy R4 to make the seige of Paris mildly successful, so America’s navy (that they should be focusing on with all the German ships built) should easily be big enough to push the High Seas Fleet back into port and allow Brits across now that the Ottomans are no longer a threat.

    @Preussener:

    Remember, France is producing only ~25 IPC’s per turn, while Germany is sending about 40 IPC’s worth per turn (preferably with newly-bought fighters, for extra firepower).

    Finally, there is really no chance of Britain landing in France when Germany is making 2-4 battleships per turn (and has destroyed much of the initial Royal and French navies). That is the purpose of going all/mostly naval builds.

    So is Germany sending about 40 IPCs at France or building 2 battleships/turn? 2 battleships leaves Germany with only a piddly 16 IPCs to send at France, which will barely outmatch them even when Paris is contested. But if they don’t build those ships, Britain can send troops across the channel to help France out.


  • @ColonelCarter:

    Let’s look at the OOB Paris rush + naval buildup in a vacuum, with Low Luck for consistency.

    Round 9 result: G: 2 inf, 3 art, 1 fig/F: 4 inf, 9 art->G: 14 inf, 4 art, 1 fig/F: 16 inf, 9 art (R10 beginning)

    So while you may be just starting to overwhelm Paris, it’s taken you 10 rounds to do so. And one of Italy or Russia should be doing very well since Austria can’t hold them both off and the Ottomans’ full attention is on the Brits (since all of Britain’s money is going to India because they can’t get across the channel), and Germany had to stop buying navy R4 to make the seige of Paris mildly successful, so America’s navy (that they should be focusing on with all the German ships built) should easily be big enough to push the High Seas Fleet back into port and allow Brits across now that the Ottomans are no longer a threat.

    First of all, the Deutsche army should have virtually all of their forces in one place by the time they reach Paris. With a higher attacker/defender ratio, the defender tends to lose all of its units in the first roll, and the attacker loses relatively few. It is extremely efficient. I march into Paris in 5 turns, and completely capture it the next turn. There are usually about 10 infantry, all 15 initial artillery, and a couple fighters left over in the end.

    Once again, this strategy has been successfully tried numerous times.

    @ColonelCarter:

    So is Germany sending about 40 IPCs at France or building 2 battleships/turn? 2 battleships leaves Germany with only a piddly 16 IPCs to send at France, which will barely outmatch them even when Paris is contested. But if they don’t build those ships, Britain can send troops across the channel to help France out.

    Clarification: The ~40 IPC’s worth of units that Germany sends is each of the initial “waves” of infantry it had in the beginning. Therefore, it is not buying any land units except a few from the leftover IPC’s. Instead, it is predominantly purchasing battleships (and lots of those). The British have no choice but to surrender their waters.
    Side point: I prefer to use the Ottomans to simply send all Bulgarian and Turkish-produced forces to Russia. They do not need to survive (pessimistic, I know, but I care for the good of Germany much more). Also, by attacking only one territory on a front at a time, the Austrians can lose very few units, too. This strategy has also been experimented with, and enabled Austria-Hungary to hold Italy with its Tyrolean, Trieste, and Bohemian armies, while the rest challenged the Ukraine. Even if Russia is able to hold off the Austrians (which is unlikely), the Ottomans easily side-step to Tatarstan, and threaten Moscow.

    @ossel:

    My only question with this “snowball” strategy is: what is France doing while you’re combining all of your troops into one territory? Why wouldn’t they just go around you and drive through high-IPC areas like Munich and Berlin?

    Same thing as if they went into the “Scorched Belgium” Trap: If one or two infantry side-step, send 4 or 5 to stop them. If a larger French army does this, annihilate it with your whole force.


  • Thanks for all the great opinions. I’ll let you know what the final battle looks like in about a week.Here’s some of my thoughts.

    -  It always seems the French bite me in the ass because I don’t give them enough credit (based on previous versions).
    -  I’m intersted in repulsing landing, british troops with the artillery prefire shots.
    -  The 1 + 2 punch of the Austrians then Germans could spell the end for the French.
    -  A cheap german sub fleet might be enough to delay british amphibious re-enforcements.
    -  The Austrians could help by keeping Italy pinned down and wiped out at the same time as Paris.


  • @Preussener:

    First of all, the Deutsche army should have virtually all of their forces in one place by the time they reach Paris.

    What I listed for the Round 5 attack is every starting German west of Prussia and Silesia (-2 inf for taking Belgium). I actually failed to include one French purchase so the French would actually defend with every starting unit + 4 turns of buying 8 inf + 6 units from Portugal/Africa. So the actual Round 5 attack is G: 45 inf, 16 art, 3 fig vs. F: 60 inf, 9 art, 1 fig. Not winnable barring insane dice. And since you have only been building ~15 IPCs of ground/turn, postponing the attack will only yield worse ratios, since Paris won’t be contested. I suppose you could dive in R5 and then not attack for a while, but again, Russia or Italy is going to be threatening something by then.
    @Preussener:

    With a higher attacker/defender ratio, the defender tends to lose all of its units in the first roll, and the attacker loses relatively few. It is extremely efficient. I march into Paris in 5 turns, and completely capture it the next turn. There are usually about 10 infantry, all 15 initial artillery, and a couple fighters left over in the end.

    Exactly what is France purchasing to allow this?

    @Preussener:

    Once again, this strategy has been successfully tried numerous times.

    And the 4-move checkmate in chess has been tried successfully numerous times. That does not make it a sound strategy.

    @Preussener:

    Side point: I prefer to use the Ottomans to simply send all Bulgarian and Turkish-produced forces to Russia.

    So how is Britain not able to prevent this from Persia? Or supporting Russia through Kazakhstan? Are they even building in India or engaging in a futile naval buildup with Germany?

    @Preussener:

    Also, by attacking only one territory on a front at a time, the Austrians can lose very few units, too. This strategy has also been experimented with, and enabled Austria-Hungary to hold Italy with its Tyrolean, Trieste, and Bohemian armies, while the rest challenged the Ukraine. Even if Russia is able to hold off the Austrians (which is unlikely), the Ottomans easily side-step to Tatarstan, and threaten Moscow.

    You’re using 18 inf, 6 art to hold off the Italians for an indefinite amount of time? Italy can attack Trieste with 17 inf, 6 art Round 2. That increases to 24 inf, 8 art for a Round 3 attack. This also leaves only 30 inf, 6 art starters to challenge a conservative 26 inf, 11 art in the Ukraine (4 inf in Sevastopol). Plus you are required to send unit(s) into Serbia. Plus Russia has those Romanians if you don’t kill them.

    So, in my opinion, Paris can never be the CP’s initial objective. Germany can build straight ground and send almost everything into France, but the goal of this is actually to lift pressure off the Ottomans. The other strategy I think might have a chance of success is if Austria tackles Russia on its own (one big army is better than two split), the Ottomans focus on India (don’t mess around in the Balkans), and Germany tries to hold down France and Italy in the west until Russia is subdued (preferably revolted so you don’t lose as many Austrians).


  • @ColonelCarter:

    @Preussener:

    First of all, the Deutsche army should have virtually all of their forces in one place by the time they reach Paris.

    What I listed for the Round 5 attack is every starting German west of Prussia and Silesia (-2 inf for taking Belgium). I actually failed to include one French purchase so the French would actually defend with every starting unit + 4 turns of buying 8 inf + 6 units from Portugal/Africa. So the actual Round 5 attack is G: 45 inf, 16 art, 3 fig vs. F: 60 inf, 9 art, 1 fig. Not winnable barring insane dice. And since you have only been building ~15 IPCs of ground/turn, postponing the attack will only yield worse ratios, since Paris won’t be contested. I suppose you could dive in R5 and then not attack for a while, but again, Russia or Italy is going to be threatening something by then.

    Huh? Nearly 70 French units in Paris? Where did they come from? Perhaps they all retreated and France is broke on IPC’s? Where did France get the money?

    @ColonelCarter:

    @Preussener:

    Once again, this strategy has been successfully tried numerous times.

    And the 4-move checkmate in chess has been tried successfully numerous times. That does not make it a sound strategy.

    I whole heartedly agree. That is why I intend to continue experimenting with this in real games (not just calculations).

    @ColonelCarter:

    @Preussener:

    Side point: I prefer to use the Ottomans to simply send all Bulgarian and Turkish-produced forces to Russia.

    So how is Britain not able to prevent this from Persia? Or supporting Russia through Kazakhstan? Are they even building in India or engaging in a futile naval buildup with Germany?

    @Preussener:

    Also, by attacking only one territory on a front at a time, the Austrians can lose very few units, too. This strategy has also been experimented with, and enabled Austria-Hungary to hold Italy with its Tyrolean, Trieste, and Bohemian armies, while the rest challenged the Ukraine. Even if Russia is able to hold off the Austrians (which is unlikely), the Ottomans easily side-step to Tatarstan, and threaten Moscow.

    You’re using 18 inf, 6 art to hold off the Italians for an indefinite amount of time? Italy can attack Trieste with 17 inf, 6 art Round 2. That increases to 24 inf, 8 art for a Round 3 attack. This also leaves only 30 inf, 6 art starters to challenge a conservative 26 inf, 11 art in the Ukraine (4 inf in Sevastopol). Plus you are required to send unit(s) into Serbia. Plus Russia has those Romanians if you don’t kill them.

    That is for an Eastern Front discussion.


  • @Preussener:

    @ColonelCarter:

    @Preussener:

    First of all, the Deutsche army should have virtually all of their forces in one place by the time they reach Paris.

    What I listed for the Round 5 attack is every starting German west of Prussia and Silesia (-2 inf for taking Belgium). I actually failed to include one French purchase so the French would actually defend with every starting unit + 4 turns of buying 8 inf + 6 units from Portugal/Africa. So the actual Round 5 attack is G: 45 inf, 16 art, 3 fig vs. F: 60 inf, 9 art, 1 fig. Not winnable barring insane dice. And since you have only been building ~15 IPCs of ground/turn, postponing the attack will only yield worse ratios, since Paris won’t be contested. I suppose you could dive in R5 and then not attack for a while, but again, Russia or Italy is going to be threatening something by then.

    Huh? Nearly 70 French units in Paris? Where did they come from? Perhaps they all retreated and France is broke on IPC’s? Where did France get the money?

    France starts with 26 inf, 8 art, 1 fig on the mainland. They don’t have to lose any of these armies if they don’t wish, since the territories that they would put ‘blockers’ in are going to be massively stormed by Germany anyway.
    Round 1 buy 8 inf, collect 26 (+Portugal +Sp. Morocco -Fr. Eq. Afr.), end 26
    Round 2 buy 8 inf, collect 24 (-Lorraine), end 26
    Round 3 buy 8 inf, collect 22 (-Picardy), end 24
    Round 4 buy 8 inf, collect 18 (-Brest, -Burgundy) end 18
    This brings our total up to 58 inf, 8 art 1 fig.
    Finally, France can transport the Portuguese 3 inf, 1 art as well as 2 inf from Africa into Bordeaux by R2-3 to make it into Paris by R4, to achieve the maximum troops in Paris before a R5 German attack of 63 inf, 9 art, 1 fig. However, I would suggest putting 1-2  inf in each of Brest and Burgundy R3 to force the Germans to put some risk into taking them. If you can use Italians to block Burgundy, even better.
    To summarize: France is surprisingly durable economy-wise. They have 8 virtually untouchable IPCs not part of mainland France, Fr. Eq. Afr. is fairly easily liberated, and Bordeaux and Marseilles aren’t threatened for a while. That’s 4 inf even when their capital and over half the country is under siege.


  • @Preussener:

    Hello, all,

    I have had a general strategy for Deutschland against Frankreich that has worked well, every time (6 times now).

    Germany has so many land units in the beginning that they can simply go all-out navy-builds if they use their troops efficiently (something the Germans were usually known for). By using a land strategy of “Boom-and-Bust” sending overwhelming forces into one territory at a time, Germany loses very few soldiers. You will then move all armies in West and Central Germany to the west (only East Prussia and Silesia need to hold down Russia, especially when the Austro-Hungarian and Turkish players are attacking them).

    Following this rule, the best thing to do on land would be to send all 14 infantry and 6 artillery into Belgium. On the second turn, use all 30-something units available (including Munich forces) to take Lorraine. Third, take Picardy. Fourth, storm into the capital with about 30-something units. And finally, the Berlin force of nearly 20 units will be “having lunch in Paris”.

    As for its navy, the Germans can become a nightmare for the UK if they spend all on 2, and later 3-4 battleships, per turn. The Brits, and later the Americans, do not stand a chance on the high seas.

    Once again, this strategy has worked very well for me, and I would be delighted to see how it comes out with someone else.

    • Chris

    You must be playing against French and British players who have no idea what they’re doing.  The French should generally be building nothing but infantry and the occasional plane until the Brits have landed enough troops in Picardy or Belgium to make a counteroffensive viable.  With the French doing this and the Brits also landing troops, I don’t see any way the Germans can take Paris in time.  I say in time because the U.S. is entering the war in Turn 4 and will also be able to dedicate amphibeous forces and navy to support the French and Brits against Germany.  Not only that, but by that time and with no offensive towards the eastern front, not only will Russia have likely avoided the revolution, they will also be able to consider making an advance on German territory.

    Simply put, the Ottomans and AH are not strong enough by themselves to take down Russia without Germany’s help.  If AH dedicates everything to Russia, they will pay the price in Italy and the Balkans.  And if the British player is doing his job in India and Persia, Ottoman won’t be able to contribute much to Russia besides the Bulgarian forces and possibly one turn of infantry out of Constantinople without having to worry very soon about the loss of their own territories.

    This game is a pretty simple race against time.  Can the CPs knock out Russia before the U.S. gets involved in the war and the Americans, British, and French have assembled enough troops in Belgium, Holland, or even Picardy to end Germany’s dreams of taking Paris?  If so, then the CPs have a good chance of winning.  If not, then they don’t.  I’m not saying Russia has to be revolted or taken over by Turn 4 or even Turn 5, but it needs to be well on the way to happening.  Germany and AH need to be able to start sending those troops to the Western fronts (France and Italy, respectively) as soon as possible in order to really compete.  Ottoman just needs to stay alive.  If Russia survives and can hold off the revolution, the game is over for the CPs.  That is the game.  On the other hand, if Russia is knocked out relatively quickly, it’s looking good for the CP particularly once Germany can start building tanks to accompany their forces returning from the east.  The combined forces will prove to be devastating against the French.

    Based on my experience Germany really needs to develop a tank stack before they can successfully take out the French, and that can’t start to happen until turn 5 at the earliest.  If they go after the West like you suggest, by turn 5 the Brits and French should be holding a pretty good line and may have even been able to divide the German forces.  (As the allied player, I smile whenever Germany is wasting money on navy.  It’s a battle they won’t ever be able to win in the long run, especially once the U.S. joins the fight.  All that is doing is preventing them from buying more ground troops to threaten the Russians or French.)  Alternatively, they can send the bulk of their forces after Russia and have either forced the RR by then or be well on their way.  That is a much better use of their first few turns based on my experience and a better overall strategy.

    I’d be willing to bet that if you surveyed everyone on this board, the vast majority of the games that involved a CP victory included taking out Russia first.  When the CP are not able to take Russia or force the RR early in the game, even if they somehow are able to get Paris as you propose, these games will inevitably result in a CP loss.  (Unless of course, the French and British players totally don’t know what they’re doing, as I mentioned earlier.)  Based on all the games I’ve played and all the strategies I’ve seen and used, the battle for Russia is 90% of the ballgame for the CP.


  • Leaving Russia alive spells doom for the Central powers.

    Especially when you fail to achieve any other objective. Taking France as Germany is simply not doable, or viable. Attacking players need almost twice the amount of troops the defender has to defeat him.

    This is incredibly difficult to achieve against France, if not impossible without taking extreme measures.

    Besides, why attack France when you can attack Russia instead?


  • Unfortunately, we ended up playing the Europe side of the Global Axis and Allies. I achieved a Victory by Surrender playing as the Allies. A steady purchase of cheap destroyers as the UK prevailed against the Axis navy.

    I’ve been reading some of the replies on this posting and I’m getting the idea that attacking France is not the way to go. I am in agreement. Russia is the easier, hitable target and best to get out of the game early. But this is such an easy and standard option, I was looking for a new way to beat up on my friends, lol. On the next game night I’ll suggest the 1914 edition and hopefully I can put some of the suggestions to good use.

    If France does nothing but defend and retreat then it’ll be a very hard nut to crack. We’ll have to see what purchases the French player makes (they sometimes try for an attack force instead of a defensive core).  Sticking to the coast seems the safest way to go as long as you’re not short on men for defense. I’d try and hit Paris a little later than Turn 5, maybe allow the Ottomans to take the first strike or at least knock out the air force in Paris (a great sacrifice move I call "The Gord Maneuver )  If somehow you can clear the Med of allied forces, you could also transport Ottomans or Austrians to France. Like I said, I’ll post the results on the next game of 1914 we play. Wish me luck in the takedown of Paris . . . . .

    Starlight Sniper

  • Customizer

    Thinking of making it a hard rule that the USA will not declare war unless Russia is defeated or has collapsed.

    This represents the fact that Wilson did not want to align America with the absolute Tzarist monarchy. Using PTR any collapse represents the fall of the Tzar and a republican Russia, meaning USA can declare war (though still not before turn 4).

    How would this effect the KRF strategy outlined above?

    Would CP players push Russia to the brink of collapse, but deliberately avoid tipping it over?

    Would a KFF strategy become more viable given the indefinite postponement of US intervention, or do the CPs still need the income from a conquered Russia to defeat the western europeans?

    In other words how important is the ticking clock of American involvment in determining CP strategy?


  • Flash, you were absolutely right. The US-war-declaration just followed the February Revolution in Russia.

    But why not say US only enters war after it loses its income because of USW ?

    If I do remember it correctly, THIS was the reason told to the world.

    If the Germany player doesn´t start USW, this game won´t see an US intervention!

    And here we are again - reconsidering the useless USW rules…


  • On the topic of going Paris first:

    We took this route a couple of times OOB, only change was reducing French sz15 fleet to just a cruiser, by swapping out BB, and removing the transport (we were doing this even before the tourney rules). The eastern crush Russia first strat gets boring (and also seems to fail), so we wanted to look at the west. It didn’t go well, but to be honest we only did it a couple times, and I think it could be improved.

    We basically had Germany go full tilt West, and A/H go East (with some assistance to both). As stated one very strong axis army tends to work better then two weaker multinational armies side by side when on the attack.  All available German units went west except Prussia and part of Silesia (needed to help def against Russia). You also need to have a small 9-12 unit A/H contingent with you in the west to watch your flank (probably hit the Italians in Venice to weaken/threaten them, then move into Switzerland etc…).

    The Germans can gain temporary control of the North Sea OOB w/o a major navy build up (reduction of French sz15 fleet helps), but I have to say we didn’t buy BB’s for Germany to prolong it, interesting idea though (could this be a key to success?). Yeah buying a couple BB’s would weaken your reinforcements coming in from Berlin, but if you had long term control of the sea, besides keeping the Brits out of France you could transport German units to Picardy from Kiel faster then if they had to make the long walk. The problem here of course is that the English mines from sz9 could cost you the game when your transports move back-n-forth to Picardy, even if you have full control of sz9 w/escorts. This happened in one of our games, the Germans kept loosing transports to mines (not saying this is a flaw, but if you have establish complete control of an enemy mined sz and are simply moving transports back-n-forth the next turn should they be subject to mines? or should the sz be considered cleared of mines).

    Anyway, the French can put up a monster defense by themselves by pulling back/turtling, buying mostly inf, and pulling in reinforcements from Portugal etc… It is also next to impossible to put a dent in the French income because of untouchable territories in Africa/Portugal etc…, plus the French territories along the border are only worth 2 IPCs (unlike their counterpart German border territories worth much more).

    Once the Italians figure out you aren’t gunning for them, they can also reinforce thorough the Med (could send inf/planes by transport?).  The Brits may not be able to put many boots in France, but if they manage to get a couple ground units over, they might be able to send a couple planes to Brest via Whales  to help gain air superiority (might need to sacrifice A/H air to tip the scales for the main German assault for Art boost). Just a thought, but a bold French player might even take out Spain turn2 (from Portugal/Bordeaux) to collect 4 more IPCs (risky, maybe wait and have an ally weaken it first?).

    A/H will have their hands full w/Russia, but if they are patient and get a little help I have seen them rival what the Russians can bring (and even turn the tables). Italy does become a problem though, and they will start to invade the Balkans, and can also help out the French by Sea. This is why I think an early German navy build could work. It could draw much of the allied Med ships to the Atlantic, then would the A/H navy have a chance? (probably not, but would make for an interesting game none the less).

    BTW, I also think that USW is a joke in this game (non existent). They should look at couple things. Add sz’s that can be attacked by USW, and have a threshold of USW that needs to be crossed to bring in the Americans, and/or make it harder to kill subs. The allies didn’t have an answer to sub warfare especially in the early days (couldn’t spot them). The allies main defense against subs were threats that the US would join the war (the Germans would back off, then reengage to test the US resolve). Even destroyers weren’t effective at this time, but they used air to spot subs though.

    Maybe expanding the the roll of a fighter should be looked at. Fighters are already used to spot for art (boost attack/def), so maybe you should also be able to use fighters to spot subs in adjacent sz’s. This would cause a bit of a problem with the one movement phase, and would create an exception (might be worth it). You would have to allow fighters a NCM, but they can only use it if they use just one move in the normal move phase. This would allow a fighter to fly out 1 space to an adjacent sz, spot subs for their warships to attack (at full values), and move 1 more space afterwards to land (plane still only moves a total of 2 spaces max). It would also allow a fighter to move 1 space in a ground battle, then retreat if it chooses to (could retreat or stay depending on situation). If the fighter moves 2 spaces to get to a ground battle it must stay in that territory (used all its movement).

    IDK, maybe you have a rule that says if an enemy sub submerges, you can’t hit it, unless you have a fighter spotting for you (maybe a submerging sub can only be hit with a roll of 1 if not using a plane to spot, still defenders choice?). If you have a fighter spotting for you, then all your warships fire at their normal values. That way if the enemy sub stays on the surface to fight (maybe fodder for other ships), then it can be taken out at normal attack values. This would have no effect on subs used in an attack, because all defending ships would defend at normal values because the sub attacked, didn’t submerge (gave up its position).


  • Good discussion. I see a few things:
    1. Focus on Russia.
    2. Hold off France (Deutsche Army).
    3. Hold off British (Kaiserliche Marine).

    Yes, guys, I have been slightly changed on my position (for the better, right?). If France retreats all its forces, let it go.
    However, I still hold that whenever France starts trying to go on the offensive (and losing more troops than you), punish it soundly.

    Going after the British Navy is very rewarding, also…
    @WILD:

    We basically had Germany go full tilt West, and A/H go East (with some assistance to both). As stated one very strong axis army tends to work better then two weaker multinational armies side by side when on the attack. Â

    The Germans can gain temporary control of the North Sea OOB w/o a major navy build up (reduction of French sz15 fleet helps), but I have to say we didn’t buy BB’s for Germany to prolong it, interesting idea though (could this be a key to success?). Yeah buying a couple BB’s would weaken your reinforcements coming in from Berlin, but if you had long term control of the sea, besides keeping the Brits out of France you could transport German units to Picardy from Kiel faster then if they had to make the long walk.

    This is the strategy that has worked for me to keep Britain from the coasts of France (even when I play against experienced players).

    By buying all/mostly navy on its turns, Germany has been able to accumulate ten battleships by the time the US becomes involved, with the UK hopelessly attempting to challenge them with their purchase of two BB’s a turn. This forces UK to focus on the Turks instead, who can then simply contract and pile infantry (sort of like France).

    From the discussion, it seems that many have fallen into the trap of “following France into its den”. If France retreats, just focus on Russia until the French gain back their nerve.

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