Sealion? Is there a perfict set up?

  • So I posed my self a question. Is there a soild enough setup for Sealion and toyed around a game with my self. I’ll go over why I did it this way and let me know what you all think ill first post my complete attack and setup and brake it all down after.

    Sub 124 >111
    Battleship 113 >111
    Fighter Norway >111
    W.G T. Bomber>111
    G. S. Bomber >111

    Sub 103 >110
    Sub 108 >110
    G. S. Bomber >110
    W.G. 3 Fighters >110
    W.G. 2 T. Bombers >110
    G. 1 T. Bomber >110

    Sub 117 >91
    Sub 118 >91

    W.G. 3 Infantry >France
    W.G. 3 Tanks >France
    W.G. 1 Artilary >France
    Belgium 4 Mech > France
    G.S.G. 3 Tanks >France
    Poland 1 T. Bomber >France

    G.S.G. 6 Infantry > Yugo
    G.S.G. 2 Artilary > Yugo
    Romania 1 Infantry > Yugo
    Romania 1 Tank > Yugo
    Slovakia 1 Tank > Yugo

    Belgium 2 Infantry >Normandy
    Belgium 2 Artilary >Normandy

    Romania 1 Infantry >Bulgaria

    Norway 3 Infantry > Finland

    Ok so the battle is Sea Zone 111 is critical for me and I’ll explan why I choose to go some wah light here as a attack for one I’m hoping that the fighter joins the attack my whole idea is just to straff this seazone and retreat with the battleship and hope that Either I leave with there entire navy but the fighter gone or there battleship is tiped and the rest is gone. The reason for this is I don’t feel it’s nessasrly to leave my battleship in the open left for counter attack jus to watch it die. When I can use it to help deter a counter attack if ine decides to come. Also when it’s England’s turn that crippled battleship can move only 2 spaces and has no where to hide that I can’t get to G2 (depending on what I have left from the attack)

    Sea Zone 110 I Just went with an over kill approach even if England scrambles it will completly destroy any chance of defense of England should I choose to do a Sealion

    Seazone 91 Now I understand that leaving the 2 destroys and Transports leaves a lot of play but it’s a calculated risk. I choose to take out the cruser cause of a counter attack if England feels they are threatened with a Sealion. And I was England I would use the Destroyer from seazone 109 the Crippled Battleship from 111 the 3 Fighters in England (if the one in Scottland is alive) and the Bomber and the Cruser agenst seazone 112. This way with that cruser gone it takes out a lot of punch and really makes England think is it worth the gamble. Also it takes a lot of Preasuer off Italy in the Medatranian

    The ground battles is all Relative to your own Interpatation as far as how you choose to attack

    Non Combat:

    Depending on how the battle won in seazone 111 went bring back the Battleship and Sub if possible but Battleship for sure to 112
    Cruser and transport to 112
    Carrier bought and placed with 2 fighters in 112

    All T.Bombers to Belgium
    3 AAA moved from W.G to Belgium

    You can move the AAA from Germany to W.S.G but it’s not nessasrly needed since the only attack is 1 bomber from England which would be wasted

    1 Fighter from Slovakia to Southern Italy

    Now I didn’t move my Infantry from Germany or Poland Just yet cause I don’t really need to and gives me an option to see how Everyone else Responds and Places there buys and troop movements also if all else fails I can hard swap to Barab and push East if all else fails

    My ships are safe with a carrier with 2 fighters and the possablitly to scramble more if needed.

    Now my Buys are 1 Carrier and 1 Bomber only cause I plan to Stratigic Bomb Englads Airfirlds and Industry Complex the following turns and Possably attempt a Sealion with 10 transports instead of 12. But that’s moot and subject to change if it’s shown that it’s needed in future games. Let me know what you think etc?

  • I have learnt a couple of things from my group’s attempts so far:

    1). An alarmed UK can perfectly counter any SL, even without hurting itself too badly in Africa.
    2). If GE buys 2 turns worth of ships and transports a 3rd turns’ worth of land units into London, Russia has a great opportunity of spreading communism into Eastern Europe.
    3). A pyrrhic victory is to be avoided because otherwise the USA can easily liberate London US4.
    4). GE loosing more aircraft than the UK has to be avoided.
    5). IT2 can and should raid the UK AB if the axis decide to give it a go. Italy goes after the UK and therefore the AB cannot be repared before GE3 (invasion turn). No possible scramblers hurts the UK.
    6). GE must keep some 75% of its luftwaffe alive during SL, otherwise Russia becomes unstoppable.

    Regarding the above, ‘countering’ SL means for the UK that it must try to make sure that at least no more than 11 German units survive the SL battle if  US4 intervention looks promising. If the USA is hard pressed in the pacific, UK wants to lower GE survivors to about <=5, but better plan for a clear victory (requires to call a lot of med. forces back home).

    In the last game me and some friends played as the axis, we took London by surprise. I told my German and Italian friends how I 'd see a surprise attack on London turn into a good axis game and luckily they were willing to try. Germany prepared for Barbarossa, buying 7ART and doing all the standard opening moves against the RN, France, etc. EVERYTHING looked like a typical preparation for a GE3 Barbarossa.
    The UK was caught completely off guard when GE2 enough German troops marched back into Germany. GE2 bought 10TRS so we had 11 TRS total in 113 without protection, other than 1CA + 3FTR (Scramble). But no more protection is needed there if all the RN is gone.

    London fell with 20 German units left. US3 sank all the kriegsmarine but that’s the price for having an unprotected SL. GE could have bought protection in the invasion turn if we wanted (placing a CV and/or DD in the channel at the Normandy IC and/or an AB in Holland) but Russia looked too strong so we decided on no more ship construction to Sac the Kriegsmarine. Kept all the Luftwaffe alive (2 lost during the opening AAA fire), so GE had a large garrison in London too big for the USA to overcome, because it was challenged too hard in the Pacific (Japan threatened to take and hold 6VC at once from turn 3 and onwards)…

  • I agree that anything givin enough time can be blunted for sure and most attacked even planed out don’t come or go as planed for any number of variables for sure.

    I thought to my self that if I sit on my IPCs then (any smart player) can guess it’s gone be Either a Sealion or a Barbarosa so you prepare for both and hope for the best when your dealing with nearly 100ipcs turn 3 there’s little you can’t do.

    My idea was to Stratigic bomb them to a point where they can’t produce enough men to counter effectively with the aid of the Italians ofcorse sorta helps tip the sides heavily jn your favor exspecialy if I’m able to roll with my Battleship cruser and Carier really puts a squeese on the Americans and is still formidable also you still have G4 to get out of the way of the Americans so I don’t see the need to loose that force exspecialy that you still have an entire turn to place 3 more units there and still fly 3 fighters in England makeing it Inpregnatable.

    I’ve noticed that by Its true Russia dose grow big but again there supply lines are very long by comparison and it dose take some time and you have an option to bait them using your Navy and transports and taking even half swinging hard G4 to Poland and crushing them with your English plunder and the remaining Airforce effectively closing shut any serious Russian offensive

    All this is clearly subject to change all cause of chance ad luck of the die and positioning

    Also I do like knowing that the subs in 91 helped out the Italians by making the Meditranian just a hair easier not much but it’s presiance is felt.

    England can still do a Taranto but it’s Moot if it sees a Sealion cause there’s bigger things to worry about

    I personally used Italy to help renforce the Germans if need be but it dose help a lot

    With England gone and Russia on your door step I feel Africa is good if it’s possible but nothin less then a side show until Russia is Contained.

    Again I did this all by playing an Inparshal game agenst my self and gave England plenty of benifits to see how it will play out.

  • Customizer

    I have found that Sealion tends to be a curse for Germany, unless it is one of those opportunistic grabs, like if Germany has a few transports available that were used to take Leningrad and the UK player lets his defense get lax in London.
    However, a planned Sealion seems to spell doom for Germany. It takes so many resources to pull it off that oftentimes the Eastern Front will get neglected and Russia just has themselves a good old time.
    Also, as stated before, if Germany wins London but has very little left to hold it, the US can usually easily liberate London. Then Germany is dealing with the “two front war”.
    We had a game a while back where Germany took London and had a pretty decent size force to garrison it. The US fixed that problem by not bothering to liberate London. The US Navy crushed the Kreigsmarine and all those German men and tanks were stuck on England. Meanwhile, the US landed in France while the Russians kept hammering in the east and the two of them squeezed Germany into submission.

  • I think you would almost want to entice a Taranto raid when looking at pulling off Sea Lion so you don’t have to defeat the RAF when taking London (watch what you wish for lol). Taking out the sz91 cruiser is a good move for reasons you gave. I like the hit & run on sz111, to retreat the damaged German BB. I think you have a pretty good chance of this happening with units you posted, but with my luck they wouldn’t scramble and I would get 4/5 hits knocking out the British fleet in one round lol (damned dice, so unpredictable).

    I like the carrier/bomber buy G1, to SBR London, and protect your transports, but it defiantly tips off the English when you mass a good size navy in sz112 along w/buying extra air power. With this German buy and placement, I think you are pretty transparent and any good UK player would keep the RAF close to home, and buy some inf, maybe another ftr. On the bright side you may have just spared the Italian fleet in the process, and the Germans won’t have to help out so much in the Med early on anyway (England still has some tricks up their sleeve). I think the carrier is a pretty normal G1 purchase, and I like consolidating the German fleet, and adding to it in sz112. I think you will have a pretty good fight over London on your hands though, and the US will be preparing for Europe.

    Not saying it isn’t worth playing out, because it is ultimately up to you to buy all those transports G2. The carrier/bomber buy can be used to your advantage even if you abort the SL mission.

  • Thanks everyone! Yeah I really like the set up and there’s tricks you can do to bait US after Englad falls I’ll get to that shortly I do like the Bomber buy cause you expect England to E1 absolutly buy as much for defense as possible (common scense )

    They also have at the beginning of there turn a fighter in Gibralter that will fly up to England and a Transport and Destroyer in sea zone 109 and and like wise in 106 sonits safe to assume that England has Options it can bring over the 1 Infantry and Tank from Quebec to reneforce England still a good move and understandable so my moves would be to use the fighter in Gibratler and the 2 destroyers to attack to 2 subs in seazone 91 again a smart move and keeps the subs from becoming more danagerus.

    There isn’t much else England can do but that and Possably a Taranto which I doubt (again what ever happins in Africa is moot and a side show)

    As Italy R1 my main Objective is to Take Gibralter If I have 2 transports I use them Both and I shut the door from the Americans getting in and the ENGLISH getting out! Really important also it takes away the Navel port from America to shoot straight up to England when round 4 comes. I take southern France with 2 infantry and 2 Artilary with Italy and move the rest from Soutern Italy North (depending on where the English meditranian fleet is) I crush them with the combined Airforce and fleet but again the objective still stands  Gibralter!

    German turn 2:

    This is where I truely tip my hand and show if the attack with the battleship works out in 111 and I didn’t loose it I’ll go full Sealion if I did I may choose hard swap to Barbarossa! Say I go Sealion your basic turn 2 is to clean up England and set it up for the big down fall I kill off the battleship that was tiped in its seazone again I can reach it with any ship from 112 so that’s done and I use my 3 bombers in England to Devastate the Complexs and airfields with overwhelming air power they won’t go up to intercept cause they need all the help it can for te invasion
    Germany dose some minor troop movements etc and buys it’s transports and places it in 112 and done

    England turn 2 dose what repairs what I can and buys more men and again anything minor it can get over Germany it can perhaps some minor troube Africa maybe the second transport to England with 1 Artiliary and 1 infantry and that’s it

    Italy turn 2 bombs the airfield from England so I can scramble and takes out the transport in 109 and again renforces Gibralter with the men it used to take southern France so Gibralter if it works right can have a force of 6 infantry and 2 Artilary after Italy turn 2 the med should be cleaned up by then and you collecting at minimum 1 bounes but most likely 2

    Now here’s the kicker Germany round 3 everyone understands that once England falls Amerca plans to rush in and Liberate it understandably so Now I would place my German Navy in 109 cause I have Options! Once England falls where will America move it’s fleet to try to intercept me? I’ll get back to this shortly

    Amerca round 3 is at war! Now it can move 3 spaces from 101 so your looking at Possably seazone 91 which normaly makes sence but if you look at where Germany is Possitioned it can take its fleet and rush over 3 spaces and land in Quebec and really scare America by landing all it’s men there since America just took its men on a transport it would we left open no? So I don’t think sea zone 91 is a option perhaps 108 as a blocker? Right?

    G4 now if America places it’s navy in 108 off the coast of England to block Germany’s threat to North American. What is stoping Germany from using its vast Airforce. It’s 1 battleship 1 cruser and 1 air craft carrier to decimate the American fleet to ensure Germany completly holds England?

    Basicaly what I am saying is once you take England you have to Deal with America comming over and Russia closing in! It forced you to deal with 1 Allmost instantly so I do and did you can basicaly effectively take out all of Americas Navy and use your transports to bring half of your troops to Germany from 109 and with the vast plunder from England you can build a incredably counter offensive cause Russia army’s Lines are to extended and can’t hold all this teratory!

    This little write up again all is subject to change by how you need to react to your opponent but it should show a general idea of how I see it can play out

    I also didn’t mention tha if Japan pressed America Hard R3 by takeing peral with the entire combined fleet and push Possably SF also round 4 to really press how much America can respond and where!

  • Whitshadw, I liked many of your opening moves, after that not so sure.

    With your German buys, you have consented that the UK will most likely max defend England. You’re leaving both UK Atlantic transports alive, so this adds 4 more ground units to London. It’s a given that the UK will kill any surviving German subs, and bring in all available air to def London. UK1 I would hit sz96 (Ita dd/transport) with all air (hope not to lose the tac which lands on Gib if it survives), place the Med fleet in sz 92 w/2 ftrs (off Gib), but leave the Med dd in sz 94 to work as a blocker in conjunction with the French fleet in sz93. This will effectively block the Italians from getting to Gib, or using their navy to attack my Med fleet in sz 92 (denying them both NOs). Italy can use all air though, but if they do I lose the carrier and my planes go to Gib, then on to England (and Italy isn’t bombing my bases). My damaged BB off Scotland probably goes to sz104 (as much as it pains me lol) to block out the Germans from landing in Gib killing my air units. Do some def moves to hold off an Egyptian invasion attempt for a turn or two until things settle out. BTW if the Germans decide to air raid my Med fleet off Gib, then they can’t do Sea Lion (air out of position).

    That’s just what UK can do, the US has some options like a couple loaded carriers in sz102, and bombers from E US doing an air raid on your German fleet in sz109. Bombers land on Erie activated w/UK mech UK1, and US carriers move up to land their planes. London w/max defense means very few German ground units left, and the Luftwaffe should be cut in half. The Pac will be interesting, but the Japanese can’t be everywhere. They can’t take Hawaii and India/Sidney at the same time, so it gives the allies a bit of breathing room (admittedly not much).

  • Very interesting thread/discussion!

    A successfull Sea Lion is about the trickiest possible strategy for the Axis.
    I find that the key to success for the axis in London is not to plan taking London, but (only) seize it if  the opportunity arises!
    One way or the other, GE wants 70IPCs ready for GE2 to buy a timely 10TRS. Part of the ‘plan’ is not to alarm the UK, giving it a false sense of security. Attacking SZ106 with 2sub also helps a lot.

    If the UK makes a tiny mistake, go for London, if it doesn’t, continue Barbarossa. No big deal  😉.

  • '15 '14


    Very interesting thread/discussion!

    A successfull Sea Lion is about the trickiest possible strategy for the Axis.
    I find that the key to success for the axis in London is not to plan taking London, but (only) seize it if � the opportunity arises!
    One way or the other, GE wants 70IPCs ready for GE2 to buy a timely 10TRS. Part of the ‘plan’ is not to alarm the UK, giving it a false sense of security. Attacking SZ106 with 2sub also helps a lot.

    If the UK makes a tiny mistake, go for London, if it doesn’t, continue Barbarossa. No big deal � 😉.

    Agree! Only go for London in G2 if being invited. Difficult to say when an invitation starts exactly but a sea lion is certainly almost only a bad idea by definition against e.g. a 1 Fig 6 Inf build in UK1.

  • '14 Customizer

    Even if they build 6inf and a fighter its still very possible.  It mostly matters how many other fighters they have left after scramble and/or attacking Italy.  You can go for the massive transport attack all once on turn 3 or you can do it in steps which I find much better.  You don’t need 10-12 transports to do a Sealion.  I actually find building the CV + 2TR on round 1 and then land 6 inf  in Scotland on round 2.  Then buy another CV + 4 TR + 2 Fighters to protect the split navy.  If you purchase 10 transports they are only used once unlike another CV which really protects your navy in London.  USA now has to really send a huge navy to compensate vs just one CV, BB, CA and 12 TR.

    After round 2 if your 6 inf survived then you can do the sealion.  Make sure you bomb the IC on round 2.  If you need more units to do the sealion then add more to Scotland and do it on turn 4.  You might only need to buy 3 TR on round 2.  Depends on the situation.  Another plan is to take Erie with the 6 inf on round 2.  Then join the navy together and put 12-14 units in Scotland turn 3.  On Round 4 you can take UK with those 12-14 inf (Scotland, add some art if you want) + 7tanks + 7 inf from transports + planes.  If you want to stop sealion then stop attacking Italy on round 1 and keep the RAF at home…  A Pink Floyd song comes to mind, hehe

  • Haha  😄

    Good song, Cyan!
    A long time love of mine, Pink Floyd.

    Last but not least: I agree. If the UK buys 6inf+1ftr and bring a lot into the med, London is still a very good option for Germany.
    To add to the deception, you could buy all land GE1, buy all TRS GE2, and buy your TRS protection (if you want to protect them) GE3 in Normandy. Normandy has a minor IC that definately is axis controlled by GE3 and you can place a 2 CV + DD there if you want.

    The (only!) problem I have with a planned Sea Lion (buying ships from GE1 already), is that the UK will see you coming and a good UK player will start chuckle at you  :lol:.
    He/she will ‘bring the boys back home’, produce a lot of stuff in London and might barely survive, or GE takes London by loosing everything except that last tank (sort of), leaving GE way too vulnerable for Russia. Not to mention that the USA will liberate London pretty soon.

  • What I like about my post is that if everything goes as planed and I don’t loose my battleship and able to do a hit and run back I don’t even need a carrier them and can swap my buy to 2 subs also that way it’s Likely to look like a Sealion and just as a general buy say 2’subs 1 S.bomber and say a Tank

    As far as any blockers from England to prevent Italy to get Gibralter it won’t happin England goes first and Italy can clearly see what it dose react accordingly to make sure it takes it

    Also I forgot to mention that if you can also get any few pot shots in Convoy raiding to help
    Bleed England will help along with Stratigic bombing and taking there airfield away the norther have to repair the less they can put units in England

    Plus if England leaves the door open press Africa get as much attention where you think they may need to react

    Basicaly you have the ability to react and counter anything that England dose

  • '14 Customizer

    Germany starts wit subs in SZ 103, 108, 117, 118, 124.  The subs in 117 and 118 cannot hit 91. The subs in 103 and 108 are the only ones that can hit 91.  Now that leaves 117 which can only hit 106 and 109.  118 can hit 106, 109, 111.  124 can hit 111 and 109.

    Sub 124 >111
    Battleship 113 >111
    Fighter Norway >111
    W.G T. Bomber>111
    G. S. Bomber >111

    • This attack is fine but I usually bring the sub from 118 if I’m not attacking 106 with it.

    Basically it comes down to this. Whatever subs you use to hit 110 cant hit 91.  118 and 124 could reach 110 but they cant move through 111 or 109 because there are destroyers there.

    I would definitely buy a CV to protect that navy.  If you leave a smoking BB in sz 111 and UK did not scramble they can hit your smoking BB, CA and 3 fighters with a smoking BB, DD, S.Bom and 3 fighters.  In a low Luck game UK is going to get 3 hits and roll a (1) and Germany gets the same on UK.  UK loses BB, DD, Fighter and Germany loses CA and 2 fighters.  Now UK has 2 fighters and a S.Bom  vs  Smoking BB, and 1 fighter. They will get 1 hit and roll a (4) and Germany will get 1 hit and roll a (2).  If Germany gets 2 hits and UK only gets 1 they still have a another shot at that BB with their bomber.  But the odds are in favor of UK getting the 2 hits on round 2 of the combat.  Its risky but if you don’t take out the CA in 91 it can move up to 112 and help the attack making it more in the favor of sinking Germany’s navy.

  • '14 Customizer

    If you don’t want to buy a carrier then leave your navy in SZ 113 and send the subs from 103 and 108 to hit the cruiser in 91 and send the BB to 110 to absorb hits.

  • @Whitshadw:

    As far as any blockers from England to prevent Italy to get Gibralter it won’t happin England goes first and Italy can clearly see what it dose react accordingly to make sure it takes it

    Basicaly you have the ability to react and counter anything that England dose



    UK1 I would hit sz96 (Ita dd/transport) with all air (hope not to lose the tac which lands on Gib if it survives), place the Med fleet in sz 92 w/2 ftrs (off Gib), but leave the Med dd in sz 94 to work as a blocker in conjunction with the French fleet in sz93. This will effectively block the Italians from getting to Gib, or using their navy to attack my Med fleet in sz 92 (denying them both NOs). Italy can use all air though, but if they do I lose the carrier and my planes go to Gib, then on to England (and Italy isn’t bombing my bases). My damaged BB off Scotland probably goes to sz104 (as much as it pains me lol) to block out the Germans from landing in Gib killing my air units.

    You’re 100% right, the turn order has everything to do with the above block of Gib by Sea. So if UK does this, how exactly are you taking Gib w/Italy? Not happening unless the Germans took out the French fleet in sz93 G1 (which you didn’t). Italy is totally blocked out from reaching Gib by sea on Ita1.

    It is possible for Italy to attempt an air sweep of the UK Med fleet in sz92, but that is highly unlikely because Italy has 2 ftrs, 1 S bmr attacking UK’s 1 cruiser, 1 carrier, 2 ftrs. Italy would lose its tiny air force, UK would lose the carrier, then cruiser if need be (2 ftrs land on Gib, then move to London UK2). If Italy try’s an air sweep of sz92, then Italy has a hard time clearing the French (sz93) and UK dd in sz94 w/o air power. This leaves the Germans to clean up the Med, and if they do there will be no Sea Lion G3 because German air is out of position/range.

    The damaged British bb from sz111 (your hit and run) moves to sz104 to block the Germans from hitting Gibraltar from the Atlantic. If the Brit BB off Scotland was sunk then the UK could block w/dd (you left both UK dd’s in the Atlantic). Italy could use their s bmr to attack this blocker in sz 104 1vs1 for the Germans, but UK could have the damaged bb and a dd there, if so Italy won’t risk it (UK uses their other dd to take out surviving German subs in sz91).  Of course Germany could air sweep the UK Med fleet, but then they are out of position for a G3 Sea Lion, and their brms didn’t SBR London on G2. If the axis do a double hit, then the axis don’t do SBR runs, and German air is out of range to set for G3 Sea Lion.

    I’m not saying the average UK player would see this and do it. Your moves, and buys w/Germany sends up some red flares though, so in our group it is very possible the UK would react in this manner (defensive posture). Much depends on the group, and how many Sea Lions, or risky moves they see in games/opponents. Sounds to me that you are a little unpredictable, which is a good thing (keeps them off balance).

    I’m just pointing out that your Sea Lion plan, as good as it sounds could be interrupted, and the UK isn’t quite the sitting duck if they go all out max def. If the axis do some risky moves that cost them air power, or puts some of their planes out of position along the way Sea Lion will be more difficult. If the axis don’t perform attacks on the UK Med fleet coming into the Atlantic this again will put much more pressure on the Germans. If UK does max def which would include the above Med navy move into sz92 IMO and buying 6 inf+1 ftr for England, even if the axis get London was it worth it? No the cost is too high it will be hard to recover. If they loose the SL fleet afterwords, take a hit on the Luftwaffe, and have only a couple ground units left after taking London they are doomed IMO. Plus you have to deal with the Reds, and if the Luftwaffe and Italian air force took a beating good luck with that.

    The US can also do some stuff that will make you think twice about pulling this off as well. As I said a couple loaded US carriers sitting in sz102 on US2 with some protection (dd’s/cruiser etc…), and a couple bmrs from E US that can land on a UK activated Eire will also cause some trouble for the axis after Sea Lion, especially if the UK was able to soften up your SL fleet when you attacked, or they can double hit it after you take London.

  • Ofcorse all this could and would
    Be possible if and only if England truely knew what my goals and objectives were

    With that round 1 buy it’s telegraphing quite a bit but also sets me up for the safety of knowing a counter attack in 112 won’t go England’s way

    As far as that damaged battleship from 111 it can only move 2 spaces so anywhere from 123 to 104 my navy from 112 is capable of reaching it and since it’s crippled I just need 1 more hit

    As far as the whole issue with Gibralter it boils down to did England do a Tarantino if not then did you leave a blocker in 94 but honestly let’s face facts it’s England R1 do you honestly belive your gonna just randomly leave a blocker in 94 cause you know my plan? If that’s the case then Egypt is left open and and with no Tarantino I have what? 2 crusers and a Battleship for Bonbardment my S.Bomber 2 infantry and 2 tanks to easily take it

    But honestly no one round 1 will leave a blocker in 94 for no reason. Exspecialy since I didn’t tip you off with Italy so say you consolidate all your ships in 92 you really think then everything in 92 can stand up to 1 sub, 1 destroyer, 2 crusers, 1 battleship and 1,S.Bomber?

    Also with the whole Erie thing it would be G4s turn after London falls you don’t think that I wouldn’t send even 1 tank up to Scotland and across to Erie to prevent that? That’s allmost a gimie

    If England made that big of a blunder in Africa I would probably forgo Sealion and help Italy take Africa and push Barba round 3 but again it boils down to what England dose

  • Lets be honest here, Sea Lion is a cat and mouse game.  Germany signals to the UK player that I’ll do Sea Lion if you don’t hedge against it by buying 6 Inf and 1 Ftr on UK1.  As a German player, I want you to turtle.  I don’t want a carrier on top of 2 Destroyers and a Cruiser with 4 fighters scrambling over it before I make my second purchase.

    So, I’ll buy enough navy to make you play honest and not try to land in Europe all by your lonesome before the Americans arrive to save your ass.  Those ships on G1 pay dividends for a couple rounds, and maybe I’ll augment them with a few subs to keep you worried about my Air Force swinging over the top of my navy and subs if you expose your Navy too early.  After that, those ships I bought on G1 can be scuttled, they really aren’t going to be stopping a US landing, and they are just fodder to an ever growing RAF thats just waiting for carriers to land on to seize control of the English Channel.  In the end, that Navy buys me another round in the early / mid game before you can threaten landing on W.Germany and ruin my Major Complex.

    If you are playing against someone who ignores your Sea Lion threat, you continue with the purchase on G2 and get those TT out.  As a German player, you REALLY don’t want to buy them, but if the UK insists on building a minor in Egypt, putting ships off of Canada or anything other than playing turtle you’re obligated to at least make it a reality you will be sacking London by flying a SBR and turning off that industrial complex to limit the units pouring out of it.  As a German player, this is the least beneficial play, but you’re obligated to turn London off and possibly for good in the following rounds.  You’re hoping Russia was expecting an all out blitz and played defensive on R1, backed off and purchased artillery for a potential counter attack, but if those Reds are in cahoots with those tea drinking Brits and they staged it you’ve gotten Germany caught between the hammer and the Anvil.

    The problem with spending all those IPC on a slew of TT is that you’ve effectively severed the head or the spear in less tanks or the shaft of the spear in one less purchase round of 10 Mechs for fodder.  Even diverting TT and INF to land amphibiously is less than opportune for Germany - you could have gotten those same INF to the same position for a G3 attack on Russia without the TT by simply stepping from Berlin to Warsaw on G1.  So, what to think about?

    Unfortunately, once you have those TT and SBR’d, UK is likely going to repair and do everything she can to defend London.  This is the gambit both sides play.  Can you take London without losing your aircraft?  How many units do you need to keep the United States from reclaiming it right away?  Will you lose your transports, stranding anything that ends up surviving?  Are the Americans in a position to take your navy out with bombers?  Can you hold off the Russians?  Are you SURE?  The Russians can be pretty solid on the offensive and Poland is the only thing between Berlin, a Red Europe and a GG.

    Its a ballet that you have to play, and a wise player from the UK forces a German player to start one way, and then forces the Nazis a different way when a course reversal is less than opportune.  This is what Sea Lion is.

    So, how do I play?  I threaten Sea Lion by purchasing a CV, DD and SS on G1.  I can buy enough TT on G2 to take London if the UK player plays very loose.  Generally UK plays a conservative 6INF 1FTR, so I abandon Sea Lion and G2 is a combination of Armor and Mech as I prepare to move on Russia on G3.  I think G2 advance on Russia exposes my starting INF stack too much.  I could change that by going all out ground purchases on G1 and not threatening Sea Lion, but I’ll be diverting resources on rounds 3, 4 and 5 to deal with the RAF and the Royal Navy if I didn’t purchase those ships on G1.  I’d rather have an uninterrupted stream of Mech / Armor advancing during those rounds and replacing losses for multiple consecutive rounds than stranding a stack of Armor with no fodder in front of them and facing a choice to retreat, delay or sacrifice them.

    Sea Lion, in my experience is reserved for use against UK players that don’t know what they are doing yet, or one who completely invites it on purpose.

  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator


    Sea Lion, in my experience is reserved for use against UK players that don’t know what they are doing yet, or one who completely invites it on purpose.

    I agree with this.
    This is why:

    So far in my experience, the most effective strategy is to put maximum pressure on Moscow ASAP

    If you are going for Sealion, shouldn’t this include Japan keeping USA out of the war until round 4?  Then the USA cannot even approach the UK until USA5.  And this of course is a sacrifice for Japan, and allows USA to send more resources to Europe because India and Australia are rich.

  • '14 Customizer

    Sealion isn’t always possible but if you do proceed then don’t buy 11 Transports.  That’s a waste of a navy for one purpose.  If you buy 1 CV + 2 TT on round 1.  Round 2 buy another CV + 4TT.  Move your first navy into SZ 109 and take Erie with 3inf + 3art.  Round 3 move the 3inf + 3 art to Scotland.  Join both Navies inn 111 and move 4inf and 4 tanks to Scotland.  Round 4 attack from Scotland and use your navy to transport whatever else you need.  I would not advise doing this if UK has 4 fighters plus the French fighter.  But if they have 2 fighters and 1 French fighter then continue.

    USA cannot land in Erie, Germany saves their planes and puts more troops onto London, Germany now has 2 CVs and CA to defend that navy instead of 1 CV, CA and 12 transports. USA can’t destroy that navy easily and will need another round or two to send reinforcements.  This gives you time to move your tanks and art back to Germany.  You will need to defend against Russia but only a couple rounds.  Its no doubt this gives Russia an advantage but Italy will most likely be in better shape and have an economy in the 30’s or more.  With UK Europe captured the middle east will fall.  There will be no saving force for India which Japan should project to take on J5 or J6.  Now that makes Hawaii the game not UK.  So in essence by taking UK you are setting up for a Pacific win not a European one.

    If your going to do a sealion Japan and Germany must be on the same page.

  • Also, just because germany buys all ground round 1, does not mean sealion is 100% off the table.

  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    Good point

  • '14 Customizer

    @ghr2 - very good point.  And it may be by buying all ground you tip UK to send the air to the Med.

  • Customizer

    Yeah, but as soon as Germany buys those 10 transports round 2, UK will just fly all their air right back to London. Plus, with no carrier to protect them, those transports will have to be built in SZ 113 to be out of reach of any UK fighters. They can still get to London, but with less warships to protect them, if UK even has 1 ship around they can send it to SZ 112 to block. Either that or UK will scramble and you will have to use more air to fight the scramble planes which means less Luftwaffe for the actual battle for London.
    Not saying it couldn’t be done, but it would be harder for Germany. Maybe creating one of those pyric victories.

  • '14 Customizer

    I am suspecting that the air sent to the Med will be to supplement the attack on Italy’s BB and wont be coming back.  But even if they move to Gib. they can’t make it back in time to attack sz 112.  The fighters land in London and then Germany performs Sealion on G3.  The risky part about doing a Sealion without a CV is you rely on Italy to bomb the Airfield.  I would rather do Sealion in steps and buy 2 CV’s and 6 TTs over 2 turns.  At least this way I don’t invest in 10 TTs for one move and I know my Navy will survive before and after the attack.  Plus if I abort Sealion I can always move one of the CV’s and TTs to the Med to help Italy or to get Germany’s Egypt NO.

  • Customizer

    There is something else that I don’t understand. I have seen a number of people mention Italy using it’s bomber to attack Britain’s air base so they can’t scramble when Germany comes in with it’s invasion force.
    I don’t see how this is possible. If Britain has fighters on London, and they usually do have around 4-6 fighters there, wouldn’t England send up those fighters as interceptors if Italy tries to bomb the air base? I know sending fighters up as interceptors can sometimes really suck, especially if the attacking bombers and/or escorts get some lucky “1” rolls. However, Italy has 1 bomber and 2 fighters to escort. If Britain has 4-6 fighters, wouldn’t it be a good choice for them to send them up as interceptors since they greatly outnumber the Italians? It seems to me like the Brits stand a good chance of wiping out the Italian air force.
    Even if the interceptors don’t get the bomber, it still has to face the AA fire from the UK base. Granted, AA fire is weak @ 1, especially if you are only rolling 1 dice, but hits do happen.
    If Germany is relying on Italian success in bombing the UK air base for Sealion to happen, it just seems to me like that is just too sketchy.
    So I take it the reasoning behind this idea is that it releases more German air units for fighting in London if the Brits can’t scramble. Then if the Italians fail, and some of the Luftwaffe has to be diverted to protect the transports, if UK scrambles then that’s three less fighters defending London itself. The worst part in this situation is Germany commits “X” number of air units to fight scramblers and then Britain doesn’t scramble. Then they have total fighter defense but the Luftwaffe is coming up a little short. Germany could even lose the battle.
    This is why I hate trying to plan out Sealion. Too many variables. If this happens, AND that happens, AND the other happens, then it will be a German victory. If one of these things fail, then Germany is screwed.
    Of course, I guess you could decide to cancel Sealion and use all those transports to invade Leningrad, although 10-11 transports full of troops and equipment plus Luftwaffe support kind of seems like overkill in taking Leningrad unless Russia really tries to defend it heavily. Then I guess you could always have those transports hanging around in the Baltic to launch a surprise Sealion later on. Maybe you will make the UK so nervous, they never really get a good offensive steam against Italy. At least until they have around 35-40 defensive units sitting there to repel an invasion.

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