2nd Edition Wish List

Funny thing is, i actually wrote a full-set of rules regarding the following changes i wanted to see in 1914.

Rail-road movement
Convoys
More dynamic neutrals
A dynamic Italy/U.S.A
Pacific theater/Japan/Australia
Colonial mobilization
Docked Navy and Canals

@robbie358:

1)  Eliminate Africa

Without more units e.g. Askaris it does seem pretty pointless. But more units, a German cruiser off Zanzibar and native infantry it could still be interesting.

2. Add East Prussia

Needs more tts in Eastern Europe period; Moscow should be further from Berlin than Moscow. Prussia/Poland & Bulgaria/Greece borders need correcting.

3. One Round Naval Combat

Agree. See my thread. Same for air combat.

4. Increase The Scope

Yes - bite the bullet and remove the US as a stand alone player power - the Russian player takes over America when Russia has a collapse. Until then US is neutral.

5. More German U-boats

And more powerful SW

6. Eliminate Neutrals

Can’t agree with this, but neutral rules need tightening up.

7. Add More Austrians

Austria is over strength if anything - add more Germans instead!

8. Make Most Of The Tournament Rules Permanent

New movement is needed. Rest is still under review… the Collapse “Thresholds” are too fiddly; need to be in reverse, i.e. the income a power need to retain to survive.

9. Unique Pieces

I really don’t care about this; it would just make a new edition more expensive. Does anyone really care if a Turkish artillery looks different from an Austrian piece?

10. Navy Battle Board

Not needed, especially with one round combat.

In brief, I was expecting a WWI version of the original A&A: Europe and instead of the steak I got the salmon.  I hope Larry reads this.

I very much doubt there’ll be another edition; my hunch is that this didn’t sell too well (too expensive?), and there’s little scope for expansions compared to WWII.

Some of my additions:

Morale level rather than loss of tt causing collapses, OR Victory cities

Cavalry units

Indian builds restricted

Aircraft at 4 levels, with ability to SBR

Turkey & Italy start neutral; neutral powers (including USA) do not have a turn - American income 30-35.

Usable Production Chart/turn tracker

Map changes too numerous to list, most important being:

Prussia/Poland & Bulgaria/Greece corrected

Burgundy erased

Nejd desert (impassable) added

TJ divided with Hejaz in the south

Sevastopol divided with Caucasus in East

Albania neutral 1 IPC

SZ 8/9 border changed

Yorkshire/Scotland border corrected; NB in Scotland not Wales

SZ 18 expanded to include all Albanian coast

Rome given Adriatic coastline

Switzerland 4 IPCs

In addition to what you have already listed:

*Add more sea zones to the Med, sz 17 is ridiculous.

*Mines, I’m not against them, but the port sz’s should be much smaller where ships are deployed and get free mines IMO (more like a harbor w/mined entrance like sz 18 for Austria, not sz 17 1/2 of the Med for the allies). Not a fan of a mined sz halting enemy ships either (LHTR). I think if the mine didn’t hit you, you should be able to continue on (expand movement phase?). If you had smaller harbor type sz’s though you wouldn’t be stooped in what would be open waters or sea routes though. It might be cool to be able to buy and place mines in other sz’s adjacent to your orig territories (excluding sz w/enemy ports of course). Maybe they should roll a mine dice and a 1 is major damage (sink unless a 2-hit BB), but roll 2 and you have to remain in that sz (need minor repairs, or caught in sub net). Once a mine that was purchased is rolled for then it is removed or needs to be reactivated (home port mines are always active).

*Straights
Needs to be a way to at least control surface ships passing through Danish, and Gib straights. Some enemy subs managed to pass through them. Turk straight need to be closed by whom ever controls Constantinople (could split sz 20 into 20a, 20b but only the side that controls Constantinople counts them as one sz in movement).

*Africa, wouldn’t eliminate it, but defiantly cut it down to expand Europe

Would love some NOs.

Would like to see Axis navy encouraged.

Tech? Maybe if they did it a la 50th Anniversary?

Much improved USW.  I mean, Global did it perfectly.  And it was SUCH  a big deal for Germany in WW1.

Impassable Switzerland.

Bigger Western front. And fix the map so that the seam of the boards runs through the Med, and not Europe. Seriously, what the heck?

@Flashman:

@robbie358:

1)  Eliminate Africa

Without more units e.g. Askaris it does seem pretty pointless. But more units, a German cruiser off Zanzibar and native infantry it could still be interesting.

2. Add East Prussia

Needs more tts in Eastern Europe period; Moscow should be further from Berlin than Moscow. Prussia/Poland & Bulgaria/Greece borders need correcting.

3. One Round Naval Combat

Agree. See my thread. Same for air combat.

4. Increase The Scope

Yes - bite the bullet and remove the US as a stand alone player power - the Russian player takes over America when Russia has a collapse. Until then US is neutral.

5. More German U-boats

And more powerful SW

6. Eliminate Neutrals

Can’t agree with this, but neutral rules need tightening up.

7. Add More Austrians

Austria is over strength if anything - add more Germans instead!

8. Make Most Of The Tournament Rules Permanent

New movement is needed. Rest is still under review… the Collapse “Thresholds” are too fiddly; need to be in reverse, i.e. the income a power need to retain to survive.

9. Unique Pieces

I really don’t care about this; it would just make a new edition more expensive. Does anyone really care if a Turkish artillery looks different from an Austrian piece?

10. Navy Battle Board

Not needed, especially with one round combat.

In brief, I was expecting a WWI version of the original A&A: Europe and instead of the steak I got the salmon.  I hope Larry reads this.

I very much doubt there’ll be another edition; my hunch is that this didn’t sell too well (too expensive?), and there’s little scope for expansions compared to WWII.

Some of my additions:

Morale level rather than loss of tt causing collapses, OR Victory cities

Cavalry units

Indian builds restricted

Aircraft at 4 levels, with ability to SBR

Turkey & Italy start neutral; neutral powers (including USA) do not have a turn - American income 30-35.

Usable Production Chart/turn tracker

Map changes too numerous to list, most important being:

Prussia/Poland & Bulgaria/Greece corrected

Burgundy erased

Nejd desert (impassable) added

TJ divided with Hejaz in the south

Sevastopol divided with Caucasus in East

Albania neutral 1 IPC

SZ 8/9 border changed

Yorkshire/Scotland border corrected; NB in Scotland not Wales

SZ 18 expanded to include all Albanian coast

Rome given Adriatic coastline

Switzerland 4 IPCs

Restricted india, more german u-boats and land units, much delayed US entry, what is being given to the allies to balance it out?

An enemy with a fighting chance…

More Russian tts makes it harder to defeat;

US troops able to move to Siberia to fight the Reds.

Native troops in Africa should generally favour the Allies.

On another note, what about allowing new units to be placed in any “homeland” tt, the maximum number in each being its IPC value?

NB still needed for naval builds
Capitals still unlimited, can place here if contested
Non capital tts must be controlled (uncontested) by original owner to be utilized

India would count as Homeland for these purposes, maybe South Africa & Canada (though why would the UK want to place new units in Canada?)

Aligned neutrals might be included, but not true neutrals (I’m not having the USA build 4 tanks a turn in Spain!)

Maybe even extend this to Africa, though this could go hard on Germany.

Better if African units raised are restricted to Askaris:

Native (African, possibly UK Arabian units) Infantry
Cost 2
Fights only at 1-2, cannot be promoted
Must be accompanied by a “regular” infantry; i.e. cannot be left as last unit.

The UK for example would not be able to “spawn” units in empty African tts, but could place one Askari per turn in such a tt if there is a regular UK infantry there. Restoring the German infantry deleted in the PTR (Togo, Kamerun) would restore some balance.

Indian & Canadian builds would be regular units, as Indian, ANZAC & Canadian troops can be considered equivalent to European divisions.

The extra unit in Egypt 1/1? might be considered to be ANZACS dropped off by boat.

Couple more map considerations not mentioned above:

Africa, Arabia & Persia should be one space movement only (no trains)

Karelia should not have a naval base in the White Sea

First of all this game needs a bigger map!! (historical borders and sizes of tts would be a dream)

Western front is otherwise not playable.

Second is to give the CPS more power for a real chance to win the game in 4-6 Rounds…

I like my home-map with a new Setup: (sorry its all in German i´ll translate it as soon as possible)

Österreich-Ungarn: 21 IPCs

Wien: 13 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie
Böhmen: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Tirol: 2 Infanterie,
Triest: 2 Infanterie,
Budapest: 13 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie
Galizien: 7 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Seezone 18: 1 Schlachtschiff, 1 Kreuzer, 1 Transporter

Russisches Reich: 25 IPCs

Finnland: 1 Infanterie  
Karelien: 1 Infanterie
Livland: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Polen: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Weißrussland: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Moskau: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Ukraine: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Tatarstan: 3 Infanterie, 1 Artillerie
Sewastopol: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Kasachstan: 1 Infanterie
Seezone 12: 1 Schlachtschiff
Seezone 21: 2 Kreuzer

Deutsches Reich: 40 IPCs

Berlin: 13 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie, 1 Flieger
Kiel: 7 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie
Ruhr: 7 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie
Elsaß: 7 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie
München: 11 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie
Hannover: 7 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie
Schlesien: 6 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie
Preußen: 6 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie
Togo: 1 Infanterie
Kamerun: 1 Infanterie
Deutsch-Ost Afrika: 1 Infanterie, 1 Artillerie
Deutsch-Südwest Afrika: 1 Infanterie,  
Seezone 5: 2 U-Boote
Seezone 7: 2 U-Boote
Seezone 10: 1 Schlachtschiff, 2 Kreuzer
Seezone 26: 1 Kreuzer

Frankreich: 24 IPCs

Bordeaux: 1 Infanterie
Brest: 1 Infanterie
Lothringen: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Paris: 11 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie, 1 Flieger
Picardie: 7 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie
Tunesien: 1 Infanterie
Algerien: 1 Infanterie
Franz.-Marokko: Infanterie
Franz.-Westafrika: 1 Infanterie
Seezone 15: 1 Kreuzer, 1 Transporter
Seezone 16: 1 Schlachtschiff, 2 Transporter

Großbritannien: 30 IPCs

Schottland: 1 Infanterie
Kanada: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Indien: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Ägypten: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Sudan: 1 Infanterie
Britisch-Ostafrika: 1 Infanterie
Rhodesien: 1 Infanterie
Südafrika: 1 Infanterie, 1 Artillerie
Seezone 2: 1 Kreuzer, 1 Transporter
Seezone 9: 1 Schlachtschiff, 3 Kreuzer, 1 Transporter
Seezone 19: 1 Kreuzer, 1 Transporter
Seezone 24: 1 Kreuzer
Seezone 29: 1 Schlachtschiff, 1 Kreuzer, 1 Transporter

Osmanisches Reich: 16 IPCs

Konstantinopel: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Smyrna: 6 Infanterie, 1 Artillerie
Ankara: 6 Infanterie, 1 Artillerie
Mesopotamien: 2 Infanterie, 1 Artillerie
Syrische Wüste: 1 Infanterie
Trans-Jordanien: 2 Infanterie, 1 Artillerie
Seezone 20: 2 Kreuzer

Italien: 14 IPCs

Piemont: 3 Infanterie,
Venedig: 7 Infanterie, 3 Artillerie
Neapel: 1 Infanterie
Toskana: 3 Infanterie, 1 Artillerie
Rom: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Libyen: 1 Infanterie, 1 Artillerie
Somaliland: 1 Infanterie
Seezone 17: 1 Schlachtschiff, 1 Kreuzer, 1 Transporter

USA: 20IPCs

Washington: 6 Infanterie, 2 Artillerie
Seezone 1: 1 Schlachtschiff, 1 Kreuzer

If they ever made a 2nd Edition of this game with some of the above changes I would definitely buy it as I still need this one. But the game just seems a bit of a mess to me at the moment. But if no further edition is forthcoming then I will just buy at (one day) and go with all the new rules on here.

I appreciate the original post. It was very concise and wrapped up much of what others have been suggesting all over this board.

I have to say, however, that the responses to this post were disappointing. Allow me throw in my two cents on all posts regarding “fixing” or “balancing” AA1914. I’m not trying to be negative in this post, but I want to give an honest critique of some of the posts I see on here that call for drastic changes to this or that aspect of the game.

First of all, when I open up a thread and it starts with a yards-long wall of text regarding adding cavalry/gas attacks/railroads/zeppelins/telegrams/supply lines/Mexico/etc./etc./etc., I can’t close the thread fast enough. I, like others, think that the game in its OOB state is not complete. I like tweaks to add realism here and there, but doing a massive overhaul of the rules so that it simulates EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the war is inane. This is a high level strategy game. It is not a perfect war simulation. I’m in favor of the added tournament rules, because they add things like rail movement without having to draw little ladder lines all over the board.

In the introduction of the rules, Larry says explicitly that he’s not trying to represent machine guns and gas attacks in the game, those things are low level aspects. Other things like cavalry and zeppelins had no measurable impact on the war, so it makes sense that these things are not represented.

Just take a step back, people. The reality is that no one is going to want to play with house rules that require a law degree to master.

Again, I agree with OP in that we need changes that are realistic to a reasonable degree (correct map, etc.), but we can’t hope for a perfect simulation.

Unique Pieces- They’ve had unique pieces for every country in every A&A game since 1999.  What the hell what this all about?  They really mailed this one in.

Let me also comment on this point, and note that my anger here is directed at WOTC and Larry, whomever is responsible for this debacle.

I am absolutely confounded as to how this game made it out of the gate in its current state. Every time I open up my Global 1940 games, I’m dumbfounded as to how these games are only $75, and they include many more pieces (quantity) and many different types of pieces (many of them new to G40) and much higher QUALITY pieces (look at the arty pieces in 1914 and 1940 and you’ll see what I mean).

I mean, 1914 retails for 100 freaking dollars and not only does it not have unique sculpts, but it barely comes with enough pieces to play the freaking game!!

And if they weren’t planning a second edition as some have suggested (which I tend to believe since it is the centenary and no announcements have been made) then they should have freaking put some freaking unique sculpts in the box for 100 freaking dollars.  :x

I first saw this game in Gettysburg last June and they wanted $99 for it… I bought it online on Ebay a couple of months later for $60… Personally I like the game but also agree it needs some tweeking

Cavalry had a measuarable impact in that all armies had lots of them, and they were expensive to maintain. Contrary to popular belief cavalry were not all disbanded or converted into infantry regiments, but remained an important element of most armies till the end, and indeed until and including WWII.

It is still a matter of debate as to Germany’s decision to use all its cavalry on the Eastern front after 1915 cost them the war, as they failed to exploit the breakthroughs of Spring 1918 due to (according to some) a lack of cavalry.

All of us who’ve contacted Wizards have received a generous supply of extra pieces; as I’ve said I’m not bothered about the lack of unique artillery or cruiser pieces.

However the game is unbalanced with OOB rules, hence the debate about fixes and tweaks.

@ossel:

I appreciate the original post. It was very concise and wrapped up much of what others have been suggesting all over this board.

I have to say, however, that the responses to this post were disappointing. Allow me throw in my two cents on all posts regarding “fixing” or “balancing” AA1914. I’m not trying to be negative in this post, but I want to give an honest critique of some of the posts I see on here that call for drastic changes to this or that aspect of the game.

First of all, when I open up a thread and it starts with a yards-long wall of text regarding adding cavalry/gas attacks/railroads/zeppelins/telegrams/supply lines/Mexico/etc./etc./etc., I can’t close the thread fast enough. I, like others, think that the game in its OOB state is not complete. I like tweaks to add realism here and there, but doing a massive overhaul of the rules so that it simulates EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the war is inane. This is a high level strategy game. It is not a perfect war simulation. I’m in favor of the added tournament rules, because they add things like rail movement without having to draw little ladder lines all over the board.

In the introduction of the rules, Larry says explicitly that he’s not trying to represent machine guns and gas attacks in the game, those things are low level aspects. Other things like cavalry and zeppelins had no measurable impact on the war, so it makes sense that these things are not represented.

Just take a step back, people. The reality is that no one is going to want to play with house rules that require a law degree to master.

Again, I agree with OP in that we need changes that are realistic to a reasonable degree (correct map, etc.), but we can’t hope for a perfect simulation.

The brilliance of this post cannot be overstated! In a word, it’s all about “abstraction.” I love the mechanics of A&A1914, especially the combat. I thought it balanced, at a high level, the feel of this period. I love zepps (even lead ones), but you are correct, their impact was limited (using them as one example among many).

@Flashman:

Cavalry had a measuarable impact in that all armies had lots of them, and they were expensive to maintain. Contrary to popular belief cavalry were not all disbanded or converted into infantry regiments, but remained an important element of most armies till the end, and indeed until and including WWII.

It is still a matter of debate as to Germany’s decision to use all its cavalry on the Eastern front after 1915 cost them the war, as they failed to exploit the breakthroughs of Spring 1918 due to (according to some) a lack of cavalry.

All of us who’ve contacted Wizards have received a generous supply of extra pieces; as I’ve said I’m not bothered about the lack of unique artillery or cruiser pieces.

However the game is unbalanced with OOB rules, hence the debate about fixes and tweaks.

I see where you are coming from cavalry, but it also has to do with the level of their deployment. Pretty much every country had attached cavalry to their infantry corps, but when you represent that with a piece in the game, you are talking representation at a divisional or, probably closer, corps level. Most cavalry divisions, were rougly about 6,000 men in number (depending on nation, give or take) with limited artillery support? So the amount of arses in the saddle is about a half to 2/3s less than boots on the ground at your average division size.  My point isn’t to parse numbers of this and that, but the level of deployment does matter. Arty in the game don’t bother me because they represent a large concentration of artillery as opposed to a set number. But this is something that was pivotal in the war.

@ossel:

I appreciate the original post. It was very concise and wrapped up much of what others have been suggesting all over this board.

I have to say, however, that the responses to this post were disappointing. Allow me throw in my two cents on all posts regarding “fixing” or “balancing” AA1914. I’m not trying to be negative in this post, but I want to give an honest critique of some of the posts I see on here that call for drastic changes to this or that aspect of the game.

First of all, when I open up a thread and it starts with a yards-long wall of text regarding adding cavalry/gas attacks/railroads/zeppelins/telegrams/supply lines/Mexico/etc./etc./etc., I can’t close the thread fast enough. I, like others, think that the game in its OOB state is not complete. I like tweaks to add realism here and there, but doing a massive overhaul of the rules so that it simulates EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the war is inane. This is a high level strategy game. It is not a perfect war simulation. I’m in favor of the added tournament rules, because they add things like rail movement without having to draw little ladder lines all over the board.

In the introduction of the rules, Larry says explicitly that he’s not trying to represent machine guns and gas attacks in the game, those things are low level aspects. Other things like cavalry and zeppelins had no measurable impact on the war, so it makes sense that these things are not represented.

Just take a step back, people. The reality is that no one is going to want to play with house rules that require a law degree to master.

Again, I agree with OP in that we need changes that are realistic to a reasonable degree (correct map, etc.), but we can’t hope for a perfect simulation.

Good to see someone else understands the way this game works. As such, I suggest you take a look at the OP of the “Balancing 1914” thread (the thread itself went off topic pretty quickly like you said happens, but the OP is well-written and lists some options that don’t aim to create “1914 Historical Edition” or whatever.

And in general, instead of posting a wish list and hoping it will be implemented, take some initiative and start testing some of your suggested changes out to see if it helps make the game an actual contest.

Well said.

Reminder:

The topic title is “wish list”.

That includes pretty much anything anyone would like to see, so what’s the beef?

@Flashman:

Reminder:

The topic title is “wish list”.

That includes pretty much anything anyone would like to see, so what’s the beef?

Honestly Flash (can I call you Flash?), I don’t have much of a problem with your posts. For the most part, you just want to make the game slightly more realistic, although you can get carried away at times.

I didn’t want to point anybody out, but mainly what I’m talking about is posts like this one: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=33029.0

I would need a Sherlock-style board with pins connected by string to decipher this. Nothing against the author, I too have gotten crazy with house rules that I later realized weren’t practical.

On the other side of the spectrum, I don’t like posters who are opposed to house rules just for the sake of being opposed to house rules. Even if the game is balanced (which it is not), house rules can add flavor and interest. I’ve seen some on this particular forum discourage all forms of house rule talk (cough, IL, cough), and I think this is extreme.

I’m simply promoting moderation when it comes to game tweaks. Keep in mind that if you want people to play them, house rules have to be fun and somewhat simple. And of course this is a wish list. But the thing that I liked about OP’s post was that I could see his changes actually becoming part of the game.

Remove Africa except eqypt Adds nothing to the game and the removal may make it easier to enlarge certain parts of Europe where the board is frankly to small.

Make Italy completly neutral round1 with its seazone passable Have tried this as a house rule and it works wonders to balance the game.

Germany may build in Munich Used this as a house rule together with the Italy rule and its nice.

What about Turkey neutral until its own turn?

Could do with the protection from Russia and Britain before it gets started, particularly with the PTR giving Russia extra units in Sevastopol. This would be historical, as Turkey invaded Egypt and the Russian Caucasus after declaring war. Otherwise, it is likely to face the Russians in Mesopotamia and the Brits in T-J and have nothing to do but fall back to defend the capital.

Guess what? Map.

Not particularly relevant, but I wanted to post it anyway.

No beef, really. I just draw a distinction between what might foreseeably happen in a new, 2.0 version vs. what would occur with house rules/tweaking.

Given the WotC delivery on generic sculpts, no cold, hard, IPCs, and the like, I doubt anything like cavalry would make an appearence. Changes in the rules, however, are a more likely thing. Africa, especially, needs some simple but specific rules (ie. restrictive movement, reduced unit attacks/defense, etc.)

However, they would be something I would consider adding in a house-rule/variant derived from A&A 1914. But they would need to add something significant or unique to the game play. I know that’s been discussed in other threads, and personally, I’m split on the issue. I am more likely to add trains and fortresses to the mix (e.g. the latter did significantly affect the course of the war, such as in Liege or Przemsyl). It gives another focus for artillery/infantry, and siphons off troops from the otherwise attritional wars o’ stacks.

Point being, I’m just drawing distinctions between “what might” and “would if”. And nothing personal was intended.