Russia escalates things

I don’t think so. Were just talking about the issues with the 2 country’s and how there involved and any future country’s. I agree with Mallery29 but need to resolve peacefully. To bad there’s so much corruption involved in this world.

@Nozdormu:

Question. Given this topic is about politics (one way or another) and I just saw a topic “Why politics are not allowed on this board”. Isn’t this topic a violation of the rules?

I had thought this was a topic of a significant event in Russia and Ukraine, slightly different than a political discussion.

The moderators are the sole judge if a topic is too political (it is impossible to completely isolate politics in any discussion of geopolitical events).  As they have not yet taken actions such as warnings to participants, thread locking or the like, then this thread still falls within the bounds of acceptable discussion.  If you still think this it too political, feel free to report it to the moderators for their consideration.

One of the big items you are overlooking is that the conversation here, at least so far, is reasoned discourse without any flaming, name-calling, etc.

My deal with Russia would be simple….US/Russia security team…and you give us Snowden…

I’d agree you have to resolve it peacefully.  Unfortunately I do not seeing this end well for Ukraine.  I do agree this would not actually start WWIII, but more innocent people are going to get killed here. There are too many instances in history where two groups have met at a standoff (the infantry base for example) and somebody blinked or got scared and shots got fired.  Our history is rich with it.  Both sides of the aisle have fudged this up.  Either we’re doing to little or we’re not doing enough.  Well, all it would have taken Day 1 was call Russia and say, let’s work together on this.  What gain do you get from an illegal coup to a legitimate government just because you didn’t like the previous regime’s best friend?  Stop the chess game and learn to move pass the differences.  Some of our best work with Russia came in the 90s when we put the mistrust aside and looking what we have….a joint venture along with other countries on the ISS.  Why put so many eggs into one basket when the basket has very little to offer?  Ukraine is SO not worth the effort.  I support people wanting change, but their “revolution” against a legitimate government was incorrect and will be their undoing.  The guy had just over a year in office left.  This would be like the Tea Party revolting and kicking out Obama during the 2016 primaries…does that make any sense? No…so why should this.  If this was a dictatorship, then I could see a “possibility” for change.  But revolutions/drastic changes in government very rarely work out with no blood shed.

@Razor:

If the White house was run by McCain and Palin today then Russia would never dare this, so I blame this on the americans

WTF are you smoking

@Gargantua:

I think Russia’s going to do what Russia’s going to do, and no one is going to say f-all.

Yep.

Obama and Kerry are talking about sanctions and political/economic consequences… big whoop.

How do you isolate the largest country on the planet. They can be self sufficient if they want to. Plus, they have an easy hand in everything that goes on around them.

A good compromise would be that Ukraine enters EU but not NATO.

@Amon-Sul:

A good compromise would be that Ukraine enters EU but not NATO.

Won’t happen. Crimea asked the Russians to come over in the first place. Given the fact that Crimea is already autonomous. They have their own parliament and most of their duties are performed in Russian. Given the fact that current Ukrainian ‘government’ isn’t even elected, you could say the Russians are following the only real government in the Ukraine. Now you could argue that Russians should have waited till the new elections, but we all know what could happen if you wait. During this period Crimea could easily have been overrun and this is now being prevented. Also don’t forget that Crimea has tried to become a separate state before. They even had a president for a short period of time.

But if Russia and EU sign a deal, Crimea will accept it.

The deal would be that Ukraine enters EU, but not NATO. If the deal is broken by Ukraine entering NATO, Crimea should have the option to leave Ukraine.

@Amon-Sul:

But if Russia and EU sign a deal, Crimea will accept it.

The deal would be that Ukraine enters EU, but not NATO. If the deal is broken by Ukraine entering NATO, Crimea should have the option to leave Ukraine.

I live in Europe and my impression is that EU don’t want poor states like Ukraine and Turkey to join the union. We have enough problems with the Eastern Europe and Balkan states, and some of the rich countries like Schwitzerland and Britain want to bail out already. I was told that EU offered Ukraine a poor trade agreement, and Russia offered a good trade agreement, and the Ukraine leaders choose the Russian deal. Then a very few people, less then 1 % of the population, start a riot and overthrow the president. And this is the situation today. Russian forces moved into Crimea to protect their military bases and the ethnic Russian population there, and the neo Nazi  party of Western Ukraine want NATO to liberate them and later get member of the EU, so they get rich and don’t have to work in the grain fields no more, but can sit home and get welfare benefits from rich EU. Now it all depends what the clown Obama can do

U re probably Russian. ;)

The elites want Ukraine in EU. What ordinary people in Sweden think, is more or less irrelevant. If the politicians decide that Ukraine can join, and they have decided, then it is done as for Europe`s side.

Russia gives ultimatum to Ukrainian forces in Crimea: Clear out within 11 hours or face ‘military storm,’ Russian state media report.

Shit’s about to get real.

The thing I find funny is while Southern Europe (Spain, Greece, etc) grumbles about the austerity policies of the EU (Austrians and Germans perfected the practice) you have people from the outside clamoring to get in. As they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.

Just split the country up, the ethnic lines form a convenient east-west longitudinal border.

The Americans have about as much business mucking around in Ukraine as the western powers had in the 1850s.

@variance:

The Americans have about as much business mucking around in Ukraine as the western powers had in the 1850s.�

Well, we have treaty obligations. If Ukraine falls or is allowed to be divided by military action, how long before NATO countries like Poland and Hungary feel Russia breathing down their neck?

Here’s a BBC article which includes a graphic showing a comparison of the forces on the Russian and Ukrainian sides, plus a map of the Crimean Peninsula showing some of their dispositions.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26421703

If things heat up sufficiently, I wonder if this conflict will eventually be called the Second Crimean War?  Ironically – since the current events over there can be followed in real time over the Internet – the original Crimean War had the distinction of being one of the first wars to receive extensive print and photo coverage in international news media, with telegraphed reports reaching British newspaper audiences in a matter of hours.

Berlin and Moscow should find a solution for this. War in Ukraine would be a disaster for Europe as a whole. Washington and London should keep their fingers off Ukraine. It is not their business.  :wink: