• According to Zogby, Bush’s approval rating hit 41% on Sept. 8, the lowest it’s ever been. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a_85Pjjx7jAQ

    Bush might as well vacation the rest of his term out in Crawford. Unless Iraq pulls a democratic govt. out of its ass in the near future, Bush is finished. Has anyone seen a more ineffectual president since Carter or even Nixon?


  • To be fair, the lowest approval rating since WWII belongs to Harry Truman. And we look back at him as one of the best.


  • W. Bush will go down as the most inept,corrupt,stupid,immoral and worst president this country has ever had.He is nothing more then a privileged little rich punk,sheltered by mommy and daddy,who has bought and lied his way to the presidency…This idiot hires his buddies,who are incompetent business failures,etc, to key positions,like FEMA and they dont know anything about their new position,so we get disasters like Katrina and noone to run the ship…I absolutely hate this president.He is pure f*** evil as far as Im concerned…

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    To be honest all second term presidents had a drop in their approval rating, even your beloved FDR.

    As for Bush’s remembrance, no one can know, however, he might be seen as the man who freed the world from the crip of terrorism, the man who brought democracy to the oppressed and the man who set the stage for a strong centrallized world government (that last thing would be a BAD thing.)

    He might also be remembered for the guy who singlehandedly did everything the democrats wanted on the domestic side and still got yelled at for it by EVERYONE including the republicans.


  • @Jennifer:

    As for Bush’s remembrance, no one can know, however, he might be seen as the man who freed the world from the crip of terrorism

    i’m quite certain the Iraqi’s would see it that way :roll:


  • But what when the “flaming” is the truth?
    I mean … really … who can believe that GWB is promoting a strong centralized world gov’t ?

    And honestly, i would appreciate your warning much more if you had told Jen how inappropriate her comment “Why don’t you just elect another hitler and get it over with” was.


  • The mans a nationalist, hes looking gout for America, is that a bad thing?


  • @F_alk:

    @Jennifer:

    As for Bush’s remembrance, no one can know, however, he might be seen as the man who freed the world from the crip of terrorism, the man who brought democracy to the oppressed and the man who set the stage for a strong centrallized world government (that last thing would be a BAD thing.)

    i am left speechless.
    You are … i don’t know how else to say it… plain stupid.

    Well that was a witty retort. Anyway, I could give a flying fig over democracy in Iraq, and I think Bush in the end could care less too. But wars have to be presented to be moral wars. Civil war was not fought over slavery, it was fought over tax appropriations and tarrifs. But doesn’t “free the slaves” sound so much nicer? This war was not fought over WMD or freeing the Iraqi people. It was fought so that we would have a strong presence in the middle east to scare the living hell out of any country that supports terrorist.

    What did Bush do? Next country that is found responsible for flying planes into buildings can expect to have a real quick regime change. He is speaking to the middle east in the only language they understand - force.

    I think he has conducted the war badly. If you go in, go in to win or don’t go in at all. He is doing it 1/2 assed and it is costing us American lives. His reaction to 911 was stupid “just live your life like normal”. What a crock. The American people would have done anything he asked after 911 and he asked them to do nothing. His hydrogen car BS is just naked corruption IMO. He sold us out to big oil - period. He is throwing away $ in aid to Africa for aids, like we have it to spare… and as if we don’t have people in America with AIDS. If there was any justice he would be impeached for his policy of amnesty for illegal aliens.

    Oh ya, he has made some HUGE screw ups. But I voted for him, and even knowing what I know now I still would have voted for him because I can not stand kerry. If kerry were in office things would be much worse IMO. The dems need to run someone worth voting for instead of extremist. They ran a guy who called our troops in Vietnam rapists and murders… He has admitted to commiting war crimes while HE was in Vietnam. He had no solutions to the problems the country had - he wanted to get elected on “bush is stupid”.

    Now it looks like they will run Hillary in 08. They will never learn. I just hope whoever the republicans run is a better leader than what Bush is. Because we sure as heck need it now.

  • Moderator

    @F_alk:

    But what when the “flaming” is the truth?
    I mean … really … who can believe that GWB is promoting a strong centralized world gov’t ?

    And honestly, i would appreciate your warning much more if you had told Jen how inappropriate her comment “Why don’t you just elect another hitler and get it over with” was.

    I couldn’t debate the subject whether he is or not because I haven’t studied it enough…

    because that was a counter argument not a direct insult… It is one thing to say “well you guys just elect Hitler after Hitler that mess the world up so terribly”… there is a difference between saying “why don’t you?” and “you are…”


  • @The:

    W. Bush will go down as the most inept,corrupt,stupid,immoral and worst president this country has ever had.He is nothing more then a privileged little rich punk,sheltered by mommy and daddy,who has bought and lied his way to the presidency…This idiot hires his buddies,who are incompetent business failures,etc, to key positions,like FEMA and they dont know anything about their new position,so we get disasters like Katrina and noone to run the ship…I absolutely hate this president.He is pure f*** evil as far as Im concerned…

    ?
    for one thing it is the biggest person that the blaim falls upon. if it was anyother president, they would be in the same position. it was a bad term for the presidency, the worst in a while. but all of the blaim usually falls on the person who is in charge of everything, a.k.a. the president.


  • @Guerrilla:

    because that was a counter argument not a direct insult… It is one thing to say “well you guys just elect Hitler after Hitler that mess the world up so terribly”… there is a difference between saying “why don’t you?” and “you are…”

    I have in great length explained to WN why i don’t think that i am in a position to explain anything to Jen or even treat her honorably. Unfortunately, the virus has killed that post. Anyway, she has not changed her behavior, as you can see from her posts about hybrids and their mpg (and the way she defends her spelling of “hybrid” vs. how she defends her understanding of “tax evasion”), her french bashing again, her laziness to look up polls (see the now deleted “DM’s media bias” thread and on the other hand her eagerness to curse all lazy people and her eagerness to argue against the polls’ results without even knowing the poll (and after knowing the poll -which i gave her a link to- she didn’t stop but sidestepped), and last but not least:
    her tax evasion. I hate people who evade taxes: They are only parasites.
    And this is not going into detail as much as i did when i explained it toWN.

    WHY MUST I ALWAYS EXPLAIN MYSELF AGAIN AND SHE CAN GO ON AND ON WITHOUT ANY INTERFERENCE?

    I am tired of her. I want her to leave.
    You probably know my feeling: I am right, but i can’t win because my opponent won’t even listen.

    edit:
    She called my grandfather a liar. She still hasn’t excused herself but is sidestepping the issue. Where are you there?


  • Personally, I think he will go down much more on the corrupt side than the great President side. But hey, Reagan’s spot in the history books is still up in the air (People love him, but I get a sense that historians will blast him, and rightly so).


  • @Yanny:

    Personally, I think he will go down much more on the corrupt side than the great President side. But hey, Reagan’s spot in the history books is still up in the air (People love him, but I get a sense that historians will blast him, and rightly so).

    To tell which president will be on which side is a hard call on anyones watch.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @F_alk:

    @Guerrilla:

    because that was a counter argument not a direct insult… It is one thing to say “well you guys just elect Hitler after Hitler that mess the world up so terribly”… there is a difference between saying “why don’t you?” and “you are…”

    I have in great length explained to WN why i don’t think that i am in a position to explain anything to Jen or even treat her honorably. Unfortunately, the virus has killed that post. Anyway, she has not changed her behavior, as you can see from her posts about hybrids and their mpg (and the way she defends her spelling of “hybrid” vs. how she defends her understanding of “tax evasion”), her french bashing again, her laziness to look up polls (see the now deleted “DM’s media bias” thread and on the other hand her eagerness to curse all lazy people and her eagerness to argue against the polls’ results without even knowing the poll (and after knowing the poll -which i gave her a link to- she didn’t stop but sidestepped), and last but not least:
    her tax evasion. I hate people who evade taxes: They are only parasites.
    And this is not going into detail as much as i did when i explained it toWN.

    WHY MUST I ALWAYS EXPLAIN MYSELF AGAIN AND SHE CAN GO ON AND ON WITHOUT ANY INTERFERENCE?

    I am tired of her. I want her to leave.
    You probably know my feeling: I am right, but i can’t win because my opponent won’t even listen.

    edit:
    She called my grandfather a liar. She still hasn’t excused herself but is sidestepping the issue. Where are you there?

    Because I’m right.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Yanny:

    Personally, I think he will go down much more on the corrupt side than the great President side. But hey, Reagan’s spot in the history books is still up in the air (People love him, but I get a sense that historians will blast him, and rightly so).

    Historians will write about him in the light of current events. If it’s currently popular to consider him a bad president, then that’s how he will be written. If it’s currently popular to consider him a good president that’s how he will be written. This is why I like to get history from books written as close to the actual time the events occurred rather then hundreds of years later.

    F_alk, if your grandfather disagreed with me, then he is a liar. No need to apologize. You called my family members with 1st hand experience liars all the time and you’ve never apologized. AFAIK, you’re the worst person on the planet to be talking to anyone about being misinformed and miseducated.


  • I understand you Falk but she does have a right to be here. I just stopped reading the majority of her posts. Every now and then, I’ll see what she has to say and hope it is something to learn. Nothing so far. The only reason that I’ll halfass defend her is the fact that she is surprisingly resiliant (sp?) to our constant insults and keeps coming back for more. So, the hell with it. Let her stay and blow out her hot air rhetoric. It’s not like it is going to change my way of life. :wink:

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @stuka:

    I understand you Falk but she does have a right to be here. I just stopped reading the majority of her posts. Every now and then, I’ll see what she has to say and hope it is something to learn. Nothing so far. The only reason that I’ll halfass defend her is the fact that she is surprisingly resiliant (sp?) to our constant insults and keeps coming back for more. So, the hell with it. Let her stay and blow out her hot air rhetoric. It’s not like it is going to change my way of life. :wink:

    And vice versa.


  • Historians will write about him in the light of current events. If it’s currently popular to consider him a bad president, then that’s how he will be written. If it’s currently popular to consider him a good president that’s how he will be written. This is why I like to get history from books written as close to the actual time the events occurred rather then hundreds of years later.

    Ah, now thats where we disagree monumentally. I do not believe that history books can objectively analyze events if the author is moved by the period. There is no political bias in history. There is no emotion. President Bush will be remembered for his actions, his victories, and his catastrophes.

    Now, thats not to say that undue Nationalism will not pervade the history textbooks as it so often does today. I mean, we still see Woodrow Wilson as a great President these days, the reason for which is beyond me.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Yanny:

    Historians will write about him in the light of current events. If it’s currently popular to consider him a bad president, then that’s how he will be written. If it’s currently popular to consider him a good president that’s how he will be written. This is why I like to get history from books written as close to the actual time the events occurred rather then hundreds of years later.

    Ah, now thats where we disagree monumentally. I do not believe that history books can objectively analyze events if the author is moved by the period. There is no political bias in history. There is no emotion. President Bush will be remembered for his actions, his victories, and his catastrophes.

    Now, thats not to say that undue Nationalism will not pervade the history textbooks as it so often does today. I mean, we still see Woodrow Wilson as a great President these days, the reason for which is beyond me.

    But how can a historain today accurately portray the battle of Marathon? Was he there? Did he witness the battle? Does he even understand the weapons of the time?

    This is why it’s better to have a historian, preferably one from a 3rd party neutral nation, record the events in a non-partisan matter.

    Another issue is revisionist history. This is where historians rewrite history to make it more politically correct for the day. We see this often today specifically around events that surround wars. These historians try to justify it as making the accounting more correct, but in actuallity, they are just changing history to be more pallatable to the people of the time and screwing up future historians that may only want to find the truth.


  • @stuka:

    …Let her stay and blow out her hot air rhetoric. It’s not like it is going to change my way of life. :wink:

    Not yours, but maybe the life of someone weaker-willed.
    There are enough examples in the world’s history that show how dangerous her like is…. and for the moment i am tired of her (and the way her arguing style is just a bad copy of her opponents’ style).

    I mean … she now complains for the first time that i disagreed with her family members experience … now, that noone can check it. And she still sticks to her point that she knows better than someone who was there… although in her reply to Yanny that does seem to matter somehow.

    So, i still want her to leave.

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