The Mediterranean Sea



  • The Mediterranean Sea can be a tactician’s paradise in this game, so what are your strategies for both the Axis and Allies in this theater of war. Personally as the United Kingdom, I like to use my ships in the med, and my cruiser off Gibraltar to hit the Italian destroyer and transport, as well as the Toranto fleet.


  • '14 Customizer

    (Italy Destroyer & Transport)
    SZ 91: 1 cruiser to attack SZ:96 
    United Kingdom: 1 strategic bomber to attack SZ:96

    (Italy Transport,  Cruiser & Battleship)
    Gibraltar: 1 fighter to  attack SZ:97
    Malta: 1 fighter to  attack SZ:97
    SZ 98: Destroyer, Cruiser, Aircraft carrier & Tactical bomber to attack SZ:97

    (Italy Ethiopia)
    SZ 98: Transport 1 Tank and 1 Infantry from Egypt to SZ:76 - Amphibious Assault Ethiopia
    Anglo Egypt Sedan 1 Infantry to Ethiopia.
    SZ 39: Destroyer and Cruiser to SZ: 76 for barrage on Ethiopia.

    That’s the basic attack I do.  All depends what I have at the time.  Like the Cruiser at SZ: 91.



  • @cyanight:

    (Italy Destroyer & Transport)
    SZ 91: 1 cruiser to attack SZ:96 
    United Kingdom: 1 strategic bomber to attack SZ:96

    (Italy Transport,  Cruiser & Battleship)
    Gibraltar: 1 fighter to  attack SZ:97
    Malta: 1 fighter to  attack SZ:97
    SZ 98: Destroyer, Cruiser, Aircraft carrier & Tactical bomber to attack SZ:97

    (Italy Ethiopia)
    SZ 98: Transport 1 Tank and 1 Infantry from Egypt to SZ:76 - Amphibious Assault Ethiopia
    Anglo Egypt Sedan 1 Infantry to Ethiopia.
    SZ 39: Destroyer and Cruiser to SZ: 76 for barrage on Ethiopia.

    That’s the basic attack I do.  All depends what I have at the time.  Like the Cruiser at SZ: 91.

    DO you use a mech from egypt in the attack as well?



  • @ghr2:

    @cyanight:

    (Italy Destroyer & Transport)
    SZ 91: 1 cruiser to attack SZ:96 
    United Kingdom: 1 strategic bomber to attack SZ:96

    (Italy Transport,  Cruiser & Battleship)
    Gibraltar: 1 fighter to  attack SZ:97
    Malta: 1 fighter to  attack SZ:97
    SZ 98: Destroyer, Cruiser, Aircraft carrier & Tactical bomber to attack SZ:97

    (Italy Ethiopia)
    SZ 98: Transport 1 Tank and 1 Infantry from Egypt to SZ:76 - Amphibious Assault Ethiopia
    Anglo Egypt Sedan 1 Infantry to Ethiopia.
    SZ 39: Destroyer and Cruiser to SZ: 76 for barrage on Ethiopia.

    That’s the basic attack I do.  All depends what I have at the time.  Like the Cruiser at SZ: 91.

    DO you use a mech from egypt in the attack as well?

    100% agree… the Mech and all the rest of it.



  • Sometimes, instead of ethe, I like to take persia round 1.



  • @ghr2:

    Sometimes, instead of ethe, I like to take persia round 1.

    It’s tempting, but I think getting rid of the few Italians in Ethiopia which could cause headaches later, is more important than an early Persia push.



  • @Young:

    @ghr2:

    Sometimes, instead of ethe, I like to take persia round 1.

    It’s tempting, but I think getting rid of the few Italians in Ethiopia which could cause headaches later, is more important than an early Persia push.

    I find that those italians are easy to handle round 2, u have bombards, a bomber,  and a loaded transport  to deal with them, if they become an issue.  If they dont stack Anglo-Sudan, then u can take your time and deal with them with south africa units.



  • I agree. I’ve never had any real problem with dealing with those Italian units round 2 or later. On the other hand, I’ve found that getting a Persia factory up on round 2 can be critical to stopping the Germans.


  • '14 Customizer

    ghr2 - Thanks so much for reminding me about the Mech unit.  Definitely would want to include that.  Sometimes I think my battleships and cruisers are firing rock salt since they seem to miss way too often.



  • One idea I’ve also toyed with is using the India transport to grab Persia on round 1, and crushing the Ethiopians with the Egypt transport at the same time. I just have a hard time giving up that sweet sweet island money.



  • @ChocolatePancake:

    One idea I’ve also toyed with is using the India transport to grab Persia on round 1, and crushing the Ethiopians with the Egypt transport at the same time. I just have a hard time giving up that sweet sweet island money.

    I like to do that i the event of a J1


  • 2017 '16 '15 '14 '12

    As UK I like to strafe Tobruk and retreat to Alexandria, and put ships in z96 and z99.

    As Germany I like to attack France and Yugoslavia with air units and land 3 fighters and 3 tacs in Alexandria.

    But I usually lose.  😐



  • Yup, German planes landing in Alexandria (and possibly Egypt a later turn) is a good way to delay the UK supremacy in Africa (but usually not more than that if Germany wants to threaten Moscow seriously -i.e. does not want to loose some or all of its luftwaffe in Africa).
    Downside of this is of course that the UK could place several TRS somewhere in the atlantic as the German air-threat is now somewhere else…
    The very pesky downside of a delay in Africa for the UK remains: they will be (too?) late to arrive in NW Persia in force to contest Germany in the Caucasus/Stalingrad.

    IMHO, UK just has a lot of options and all are equally viable. Be it ‘Taranto’, the Tobruk strafe/conquest, Ethiopia.
    My game where we executed a ‘surprise-Sea-Lion’ for Germany is still inconclusive but if this turns out to be a successfull German option, UK options in the med might be reduced to ‘evacuate everything possible into Gibraltar to be at the best possible strategic location’ to thwart the fall of London OR to start attacking into the med UK2 once it has become clear Germany has no nasty surprises in store for the UK…

    I am currently struggeling with the (if/when) placement of an IC in Persia to counter this delay for the UK since an IC here does mean a slower build up for DDay (UK sinking IPCs into Persia).
    A better option might be to just take the DEI-islands with that TRS at Calcutta and have India produce 1 or 2 FTR, along with some MECH (instead of ART) that can race towards Caucasus.



  • slightly off topic, but if you want Germany to send an actual force to help in the med/Africa (aka land units in addition to air) do you think the best way is to take southern France G1, Yugo and then build a factory, or just building a force and shipping them around France to med the long way?



  • I don’t see why this would off topic ;-). Axis strategies regarding the med. Germany is a worthy axis member so there we go!

    To be honest: I never even tried to tip the balance in favor of the axis by sending German land units into the med. That is, apart from loading them into Italian transports and then unloading them into Africa, which is just too risky imho (Germans load, UK then sinks the TRS if you are not extremely careful).

    The way I see it, Germany has 4 grand strategical options/points of focus. Germany would be wise not to try and focus on more than one of them (like launching Barbarossa and Sea Lion at the same time). One of them is taking Africa. I’d think that might work and the IC in Yugho seems the better AND safer option with some decent German focus. Russia is the main reason why I think an IC in Yugho is the better option. You don’t want to be forced by angry British and American ships/aircraft to also invest heavily into your navy if going around Gibraltar, since you already weaken your army against Russia by sending more men and equipment into Africa…


  • '14

    Interesting topic indeed!

    I’ve completely stopped attacked Ethiopia on UK1 and the reason for this being I want Russia to get Iraq, Ethiopia and Italian Somaliland for that sweet extra income (12ipc pr. turn in total!! If at all possible save Tobruk and Libya for the russians as well). So in fact I hope that the italians  get greedy and take land in Africa so I can retaliate on UK2 and whipe them out without without taking. If not I try with small strafing operations so they are prept for Russian take over. I guess the downside to this is that you have to direct some of the much needed russian troops south. Actually I wanna attack Iraq with 2mech, 2armor and possibly an airplane or two - depending on whether or not UK have had a chance to do a strafe in Iraq. Once Iraq is under russian control you asses how many russian troops are needed to take Ethio and I.Somali (If empty a single mech can scoop this 7IPC pr. round income) and the rest off course goes directly back to participate in the defence of motherrussia.

    This works well with taking Persia on UK1 since you don’t need the tranny for an Ethio attack and it also opens up for possible strafe on Iraq.

    In the MED:
    I like to take sz96 with CC from 91 (if it is still alive and well) and fig from gib. Then I attack sz97 with sub (from bidding - I loooove this extra sub in med), DD, CC, tb from sz98; fig from malta and fig and sb from London. This attack should ensure the survival of most of the royal airforce even in the event of a full 3fig scramble from Italy. Taking the fig from London as a casualty allows the brits to sail their AC to safety (for a later return with company from french DD, DD, CC and BB). IMO sinking the sz97 fleet decimates italian chances for mediterranean success and doing this while preserving the british AC even more so.

    Now the italians are more tricky (imo)… I find the phrase “Tactician’s paradise” very fitting. Their actions are off course totally dependent on UK1. I always hope that my sz97 survives. Having that fleet and 2 trannies with Italy is sooo sweet and opens so many options. I’ve been experimenting with taking S.France in G1 and like the possibilities this gives the axis. That being said I really want a keep my german spending in med to a minimum and throw it all at russia (In fact if Italy meets too much resistance in med I tend to drop the project completely and let the italians focus on can opening in the east and defense of Europe in the west - instead of fighting a maybe not winnable war in med with little or no economic benefits. After all its pretty impossible to keep up when US comes knocking…). I allways keep an eye on the russian movements. Are they going for Africa? If so preserve your african forces at all cost or even better try to bate the british to take the land…

    I like to go for Greece if at all possible in Ita1. Especially if sz97 still is floating! Then you can combine this with taking Gibraltar. Sacrificing the trannie in in order to get a NO and denying a british NO is well worth it imo.

    OK this became quite long. Comments are most welcome!
    greets
    /Rasmus



  • I must say I’d love to spread communism into Africa, but so far it has only been a theory for me.

    With heavy German airsupport, Italy can grab Alexandria It1.
    Italy Always has a 1 turn window of opportunity for an attack in Africa in the med It2, so that can be Egypt if they can take Alexandria It1. UK must at least prevent a crushing defeat if the Germans launch a surprise Sea Lion, so anything really aggressive in the med, even a ‘Taranto’, may just be too much for the UK.

    Therefore, imho, UK has few good options when German heavy airsupport and an Italian march forward into Alexandria can be expected (know thy enemy ;-)):

    • UK stacks Alexandria heavily so that Italy cannot take it It1, and retreats into Egypt UK2.

    • UK takes Tobruk to eliminate Italians.

    • UK takes Ethiopia to eliminate Italians.

    • UK takes Persia UK1.

    The first two options will (most likely) result in the loss of the local TRS and make spreading communism into Africa less likely (it takes a long time for Russia if the UK cannot annex NW Persia UK2). Remember you cannot blitz through friendly neutrals and thus Russia can only attack Iraq RU4 on a GE3 DOW.
    It will, however, guarantee the safety of Egypt (I do not take dice swinery into account).

    I have no experience with the 3rd option. It seems to me Egypt will still be in grave danger (albeit temporarily), Russia cannot attack Iraq RU3 (given the GE3 DOW), but the TRS lives.

    Only the last option will give Russia the optimal attack on Iraq (RU3), the TRS lives, but Egypt will have to be handed over to the Italians temporarily.

    This is my personal experience. I think I have an unhealthy idea that Egypt should NOT fall into axis hands so I Always opt for either of the first two options…
    I guess it is a matter of preference and I think taking Persia, giving up Egypt temporarily and thus allowing Russia an optimal attack on Iraq may be well worth it!


  • '14 Customizer

    •UK stacks Alexandria heavily so that Italy cannot take it It1, and retreats into Egypt UK2.

    When you do this what do you leave in Egypt?  Just the Anzac infantry?



  • Yes. Everything that cannot make it into Alexandria before Italy could attack it, stays in Egypt.

    Last time I played Allies, I put an UK blocker in sz96 and sz99 so italy could not reach attack Egypt by sea. Must have looked like this:
    -sz96: DD
    -sz99: CA
    -sz81: CV
    -sz98: TRS (I channeled the Malta INF+AAA into Alexandria), this means the TRS will be sunk IT1/GE2
    Alexandria: all air + land units.

    But, I can imagine (not yet calculated though) that UK doesnt need blockers in sz96, 99 because if Italy comes into Egypt by sea, UK will next attack into Egypt (and the Italian fleet in 98) instead of retreating there, basically achieving the same…
    Edit: scrap that. Italy can just attack Alexandria if there’s no blockers.



  • @ItIsILeClerc:

    I must say I’d love to spread communism into Africa, but so far it has only been a theory for me.

    Now I am quoting myself, it is going downhill with me  😉

    Sending just 1 Russian mech into Africa also seems to be worth a LOT (doing it in my current game).
    The 1 mech is not a miss in Moskou (RAF has 9 Spitfires and 1 Mosquito there as well), and it just took Ethiopia (RU6), Somaliland will follow next turn, so that 1 mech gives 7IPCs/turn already. Now if the UK can only stay its hand on Tobruk/Libya…


  • '14

    @ItIsILeClerc:

    Sending just 1 Russian mech into Africa also seems to be worth a LOT (doing it in my current game).
    The 1 mech is not a miss in Moskou (RAF has 9 Spitfires and 1 Mosquito there as well), and it just took Ethiopia (RU6), Somaliland will follow next turn, so that 1 mech gives 7IPCs/turn already. Now if the UK can only stay its hand on Tobruk/Libya…

    <– My point exactly!

    Also:
    Egypt is easily held in the first couple of rounds unless the dices roll heavily against you. Or am I missing something? It is after all GB before Italy so just retreat all your troops from alex to egypt (or leave one inf if you need that blocker in order to hold egypt from Italy’s first wave) but I guess it depends on how you open up with the brits. As I stated earlier Im going for sz 97 & 96 and Persia. I also like to build a tranny in SAF.

    With this strategy you have 5inf, arty, mech, arm in Egypt after UK1 and as much as 9inf, arty, mech, arm, 2fir, tb and sb after UK2 if needed (this when you count 2inf from persia, 2inf from SAF and planes from Malta). So even if Italy stack alex in round 1 (with the help of German planes placed hopeless out of position). How on earth would you have them take Egypt in Ita2?

    So I definetlly don’t think a “‘Taranto’ is too much for the UK”. Quite the contrary! Sinking that sz97 fleet leaves the italian fleet in crumbles making it way more manageable for the brits even without heavy investments…

    These circumstances can off courses be altered if Germany enters the mediterranean scene but then again every IPC spend on boats in med doesnt count towards the big eastern push

    cheers



  • @Rasmustb:

    So I definetlly don’t think a “‘Taranto’ is too much for the UK”. Quite the contrary! Sinking that sz97 fleet leaves the italian fleet in crumbles making it way more manageable for the brits even without heavy investments…

    You are absolutely right, sir!
    I think we can agree on the UK being foolish if they ‘Taranto’ when Germany prepares for Sea Lion?

    My point of ‘Taranto’ UK1 possibly being a bridge too far, comes if Germany has made no visible preparations for SL (!beware of the German who buys nothing at all GE1), but is known for launching a surprise SL.

    The UK can do ‘Taranto’ then but only if it is willing to stack London with Infantry in UK1. Still many dicerolls involved and London will most likely fall, but at what cost. With 33 units in London GE3, Germany can still crush the brits or gain a pyrrhic victory (and anything in between). Except of course if the UK is played by an extremely gifted dice roller who studied on and made it his/her strategy to roll 1’s and 2’s ;-).

    Always be wary of a surprise German attack on London, even if they display an all-barabarossa build.
    Once you feel safe enough, attack Italy. This can be UK1 or UK2 and depends on -for example- the level of your opponents (can you expect a surprise SL-attack from them?), what the UK has built and what the Germans are doing.


  • Customizer

    This may have been covered before, but I don’t like Taranto for the UK. I think it leaves the UK too weak in the Med. Yes, you might kill the Italian BB, CA and transport and all 3 Axis fighters, but you will most likely lose all British fleet in the Med and a good part of your RAF.
    Okay, say on G1, Germany sends subs to hit the UK Cruiser in SZ 91. Now that is gone. Assume that Germany sends a fighter to Southern Italy as well.
    On UK 1, England sends the fighters from Gibraltar and Malta to take care of the Italian DD/Transport in SZ 96. UK sends the destroyer, cruiser, carrier and tac from SZ 98 to SZ 97. UK also sends 2 fighters and 1 bombers from England to SZ 97 (which if even 1 of those fighters survive either strands the carrier in SZ 97 or of you take a hit on the carrier, you still lose the surviving fighter).
    Now, in SZ 97, you have 1 destroyer, 1 cruiser, 1 carrier, 2 fighters, 1 tac and 1 bombers against 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 3 fighters.
    In hit terms, you have 1 @ 2, 3 @ 3 and 2 @4 against 1 @ 3 and 4 @ 4.
    While the UK does have the edge on number of units, the Axis has a much better edge in defensive firepower.
    England HAS to get 6 hits. Granted, the Axis has to get 8 hits to totally wipe out the British, but barring unusual dice they are in a much better position to get those 8 hits than the British are to get the 6 hits they need.
    It’s been my experience on average that the UK is successful but only has the bomber surviving. If the Italian destroyer in SZ 96 gets a lucky hit and kills one of the UK fighters, here is what you are left with in the Med: 0 ships, 1 fighter and 1 bomber for England, against 1 transport, 1 submarine, 1 destroyer, 1 cruiser and 1 bomber for Italy.
    Of course, there are still the French CA/DD in SZ 93 which could cause the Italians some problems – that is unless the Germans already took them out on G1 which I have seen happen on come occasions.
    So while the Italian fleet is definitely reduced, they still have more than the British.
    I think it is much better to wait until UK 2. The Italians will move their fleet out trying to expand. Then England can hit that battleship WITHOUT the extra fighter support and lose a lot less in the process.



  • What do you like to do with the UK KNP?


  • '14 Customizer

    If your waiting for UK2 to attack the navy then you have one of these two problems:

    1. Germany gets another shot at it before your turn.

    2. If you went through the suez then all Italy has to do is take Trans-Jordan to close the canal.


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