Subs and scramble at amphibious

Yeah, I think that idea might come from the classic Axis & Allies game, in which, if I remember correctly, the rule book made a mention that each round represented 6 months of ‘real’ time.
This would mean that, going by history, the game should be winnable within 10 rounds. That can work for the Axis, but for the Allies it is pretty much impossible.
It also introduces a lot of logical problems, like why can ships only move half way across the Pacific Ocean in 6 months.

A few corrections:

6. Does never happen. Scramblers have the absolute last word in the argument. The attacker can NOT react and has to plan and move ahead without knowing with how many planes the defender will scramble, if at all.

9. If the attackers has designated aircraft to the land battle that are already in that area, the land battle starts anyway, even though the sea battle was lost. Most likely very disadvantagous for the attacking aircraft but that is what war is like :-). Retreat surviving aircraft after the first combat round is all the attacker has left to save as much of that airforce as possible…

@DiscoKnekt:

#6 is a discussion due to the folowing text in the rules about amphibious assaults (top left page 14 Europe 1940 2nd)
“Further, if enemy air units could potentially be scrambled to defend the sea zone, additional units may be moved into the sea zone to combat them in case they are indeed scrambled.”

What does this mean if not like described in #6 below?

This all has to be done in the attacker’s combat movement. That phrase is referring to an island or a coastal territory that is NOT protected by warships but does have an air base in the targeted territory or one that is adjacent (like Japan with Korea).
Technically, to perform an amphibious assault, you don’t always need accompanying warships. You could just send in loaded transports by themselves if there are no enemy warships and the territory in question does not have an air base to protect it.
However, if that territory (or an adjacent one) has an airbase that could scramble into the adjacent sea zone, then you have to send in warships and/or planes with the transports to fight the scramble planes before making the landing.
That phrase in the rulebook is simply telling any potential attacker that you have to plan for scramble planes during your combat movement and move additional units accordingly. The enemy air base may not scramble, but you have to prepare your invasion force for that possibility. And it all has to be done on your combat movement. You can’t see that he scrambles then move more units in a sort of second combat movement. You only get one.
That’s why it is best when planning amphibious assaults to go in heavy. Don’t go in with barely enough then get surprised by your enemy when he either scrambles or doesn’t.

@DiscoKnekt:

9. If the attacker has desigated air units to the land attack, the land battle will be fought for atleast the first round after which the attacker can retreat, regardless of the outcome of the sea battle.

Yes.  And once units are unloaded from a transport for the amphibious assault, those units can not retreat with the air units or units that may have joined the battle via an overland route.

@DiscoKnekt:

Agree, a asume that no one plays allies until the actual winning conditions have been complete (capture Berlin, Rome and Tokyo). In our current game Japan is almost destroyed but we still hope for an axis win due to victory cities on Europe side!

Correct. I was referring to the rule book victory conditions. Obviously the allies can force the axis to surrender by round 10, but actually conquering all 3 capitols is pretty much impossible. On the other hand, it is very possible for the axis to achieve their rule book victory conditions by round 10. Anyway, I guess it’s a moot point.

@DiscoKnekt:

Thanks!

#6 is a discussion due to the folowing text in the rules about amphibious assaults (top left page 14 Europe 1940 2nd)
“Further, if enemy air units could potentially be scrambled to defend the sea zone, additional units may be moved into the sea zone to combat them in case they are indeed scrambled.”

What does this mean if not like described in #6 below?

Hi there,

I think it is just not perfectly formulated but “in case they are indeed scrambled” still describes the hypothetical and not the real action that might happen and I guess they want to emphasize that you have anticipate the option of scramble when doing your combat moves.

The rules are crystal clear about that no combat moves may be changes after the scramble decision:
page 16 Europe 2nd

Scramble
Scrambling is a special movement that the defender can
make at the end of this phase. It must be done after all of
the attacker’s combat movements have been completed
and all attacks have been declared. The attacker may
not change any combat movements or attacks after the
defender has scrambled

Hops that helps!

Cheers,
Tobias

@ChocolatePancake:

@DiscoKnekt:

Agree, a asume that no one plays allies until the actual winning conditions have been complete (capture Berlin, Rome and Tokyo). In our current game Japan is almost destroyed but we still hope for an axis win due to victory cities on Europe side!

Correct. I was referring to the rule book victory conditions. Obviously the allies can force the axis to surrender by round 10, but actually conquering all 3 capitols is pretty much impossible. On the other hand, it is very possible for the axis to achieve their rule book victory conditions by round 10. Anyway, I guess it’s a moot point.

Yeah, in most of our games that are Axis victories, it usually happens in 7-10 rounds. Allied victories take longer, usually about 12-15 rounds. That’s actually very historical if you think about it. The Axis was looking for a quick war. What did them in was the fact that it dragged on longer than they planned for and thus overtaxed their resources.

So then when can the naval retreat take place.  say a amphip assault iis declared, only transports alone, and no ships whatsoever defending.  the defender announces scramble.  Can the fighter sink the transports before they ever unload?  And can the attacker say retreat, without ever making the attack, and to avoid defenseless sinking of ships and cargo?

thanks

One round of combat must be fought before the attacker can retreat.  The transports would only be automatically destroyed if there were no retreat route for some reason.