How important is naval warfare in 1914?



  • Due to the trench warfare gridlock, is it beneficial to use navies? I have yet to play 1914 and I’m curious.
    Thank you!



  • in OOB (i have yet to try the tournament rules) it’s quite impossible. the allies have to many ships (especially the french). the CP’s don’t have enough IPC’s to compete in naval power and hold the frontlines (actually, in OOB they don’t even have enough to hold the frontlines all together)


  • '14

    In other words, it’s quite historical. The Central Powers’ navies were, at best, coastal defense navies.

    Germany was only barely a blue water navy due to Tsingtao in China and its accompanying cruiser squadron. So it could only project a very limited amount of power, and with Japan’s modern battle fleet entering the war, it was hopeless. The High Seas Fleet, even with its strength could only operate into the North and Baltic Sea with any efficacy; beyond this was out of the question. In other words, “Die Kolonien mussen in der Nordsee verteidigt werden!” Britain’s battle fleet has the Germans pretty much contained when it comes to surface action. Hence, subs are the only real way Germany (or any of the CPs for that matter) can challenge Allied seapower and hit the Allies in the pocketbook.

    Austria’s navy really has but one function, as it did in real life, and that is to stop the Italians from landing uncontested along its Adriatic coast. During the war, other than U-boats, the Austrian battle fleet went no further than the Straits of Otranto (to attack the Otranto Barrage).

    The Ottoman Navy was in an even worse predicament from years of neglect. The Black Sea straits, in combination with a system of coastal fortresses, were the focus of its navy. The addition of the Goeben and Breslau did give it some limited striking power, but this was going to hide anyhow in the face of any serious challenge by the Allies (Russian Black Sea dreadnoughts and French and British ships in the Med).

    So this leaves the Allies with one of their major advantages: command of the seas. This was one of the reasons behind the Gallipoli landings; it took advantage of one of the Allied strengths, attack from the sea. From there, it was simply mismanaged. The attack really should have gone toward Alexandretta to cut the railway to Syria and Palestine. The German colonies, with OOB rules, are simply throwaways.

    Unfortunately, I am finding the OOB rules are unsatisfactory, and I am spending a lot of time on creating my own version (powered by D12s). This way, you can bring out some of the real differences in quality between the combatant nations. So a German corps/infantry fights and defends better than a Russian corps.



  • I am curious you have 36  D12 Dice ?



  • Its a pity the navelpowers arent balanced in this game. CP dont stand a chance after a few turns, ie when the allys have moved into place.

    Ottoman Empire
    Cant afford to buy a single ship or even if they consider a sub buy they wont make more than a dent in the combined French+Italien+British Navy.

    Austian Navy
    Same as the Ottomans. Even with a BS buy they cant sustain when the british move up in support and therefore the BS buy is extremly stupid.
    Accually the only viable option for them is to attack the Italien Navy R1 with 1/3 chance to break them. They will of course be crushed by the french, but it will prevent the italiens from moving units from afica to italy/albania r1.

    Germany
    Try to trick the british into buy to many ships r1-r2.


  • '14

    @Chacmool:

    I am curious you have 36  D12 Dice ?

    12 red, 12 blue, and a heap of other colors. So, yes, I have 36!  😄


  • '14

    @Oddbjoern:

    Its a pity the navelpowers arent balanced in this game. CP dont stand a chance after a few turns, ie when the allys have moved into place.

    Essentially, yes.

    In real life, the Austrians had several ships in the planning stages, but nothing being laid down that I can remember that would have given them an advantage in dreadnoughts (other than the Tegetthoff class ships coming into service). The A-H army was weak enough as it was.

    I’m not as familiar with the German shipbuilding program during the war as it applied to dreadnoughts. But the U-boat, as in the game, is the cheapest, most effective naval strategy. But even then, you really have to buy carefully.

    A quick house rule (that is very historical) might be to launch 1 German U-boat per turn (max) out of Trieste. The German navy sent subs via rail to Pola where they were reassembled. Sometimes they were crewed with Germans, Austrians at other times. While small in number, the U-boats operating in the Med out of Pola were very successful proportionate to their numbers. The Allies could never find enough destroyers to deal with them in the Med. It would certainly give the Allies one more thing to worry about in their French/Italian/British lake.



  • @protevangelium:

    The Allies could never find enough destroyers to deal with them in the Med. It would certainly give the Allies one more thing to worry about in their French/Italian/British lake.

    Hmmm, I can’t find enough destroyers to deal with axis subs either, my game didn’t come with any. Where’s that WOTC customer service # ……lol



  • Threads like this are confusing me a bit since in every game I’ve played the CP have at least flirted with naval parity. In fact, on at least one occasion the Germans have taken over the North Sea and basically locked up the British on their island. It was a hilariously lopsided CP win with all those IPCs unable to cross the Channel.


  • Customizer

    @gperson2:

    Threads like this are confusing me a bit since in every game I’ve played the CP have at least flirted with naval parity. In fact, on at least one occasion the Germans have taken over the North Sea and basically locked up the British on their island. It was a hilariously lopsided CP win with all those IPCs unable to cross the Channel.

    I agree. In fact, some might argue that the initial North Sea Germany vs. Britain sea battle can pretty much swing the game one way or another.

    The problem for Germany comes from the fact that Britain’s only goal then becomes to break the blockade, and so they can spend all their IPC’s on ships, whereas Germany is usually struggling to keep their toehold in France.



  • Well if you are able as Germany to make Britain use most of its IPC on ships instead of in India its a win imo.

    Problem for CP is that Allies have so much more ships at the start so when the allies have assemled, there is no chance CPs can hold their own. If Germany ends up controlling the North sea, the Allies have played extremly bad imo.



  • protevangelium makes some great points about how lopsided the sea’s were, and sub warfare being the best option for the CP in the war. Subs are a bit lacking in this edition as well as others IMO (nearly impossible to raid convoys, or inflict econ damage). The Austrians, and Turks were very limited in their abilities. The Germans did have a more modern surface fleet (tried to enter a naval arms race before the war), but failed in comparison to the Brits. In this game the Germans can get temporary control of the North Sea early though and add to their fleet. Once the rest of French Fleet comes up the UK still doesn’t need to build much to protect allied transports OOB (two French BB’s is a nice way to start for the allies rebuild). If the allies want to knock the German fleet out, then it could get expensive, but do they need to, or just set-up a multi national defense that the Germans can’t touch to keep allied transports afloat. Then there is always the 1-2 punch if the allies want to go aggressive. I still believe the problem lies with the French fleet (and the abilities of the sub to a point).

    When we play we always reduce the Atlantic French Fleet to just a cruiser (swap BB for cruiser and remove the transport). We have done this even before Larry introduced it in the Tourney rules. It does help for game play, and better reflects what the French had in the Atlantic. The French Atlantic fleet was more of a support to the Brits (not nearly equal). Before the war the French naval focus was in the Med not knowing the intentions of the Italians (fearing an Italian attack which the game doesn’t reflect).

    It would have been nice for the sub to have a larger roll in this edition having more raiding ability or sz’s to attack econ. Should destroyers be introduced so subs have a better survival rate? Maybe the naval set-up cost should be tweaked. BB’s at 12 IPCs is too cost effective IMO (should they be 15 IPCs?), no one buys cruisers. Just thinking out load……don’t read to much into it. WB


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 819
  • 13
  • 2
  • 4
  • 36
  • 12
  • 10
  • 6
I Will Never Grow Up Games

51
Online

13.4k
Users

33.7k
Topics

1.3m
Posts