Yea Idk. I know Elk was talking about one that’d fit on 2 banquet tables, so I would guess you could.
Might ask him or one of the map guys at triplea.
WIP Seelowe
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Hello there.
I wanted to start a discussion on a custom map im going to make. It is a simulation of Seelowe.I got the idea from Fortress America and similar games, but I wanted a diffrent map lay out, so thus Seelowe.
I plan on trying to include factions, Germany, UK, Italy, and US. In that turn order if it works.
The Set Up
Germany will be based out of the coast of France, where its units will be starting. Italy will be coming from thee south of the UK, and I know that Italy was never part of Seelowe in any way.
The Story
1942
Germany made great strides against the Soviets, crushing the Red Army in heavy combat early on, Japan attacking Soviet forces in the east. Italy, seeing the power of Germany, and realizing that it was slowly becoming isolated by it, proposes a joint invasion of the UK. Germany agrees and prepares for the landings.
The UK has lost the air war, Luftwaffa bombers roam freely targeting the last of the RAF in reach of the bombers. Ireland remains safe, where the RAF hides while not defending the homeland.
The United States is slowly building up its forces in Greenland, and the UK. the USAAF fights along side the RAF defending what it can.
1943
Germany Naval forces are sighted, the Royal Navy moves to intercept.
Reports of Italian Aircraft straffing South UK come in at the same time.
The UK is obvious, while the US will be out of Greenland.
The Game will last 8 turns (subject to change) and will result in victory in two ways.
1 Axis controls majority of UK
2 Allies hold off the invasion, and optional counter invade France and hold for 1 turn post landings.Its early in the making so dont expect too many rules and indepth detail.
Some things I thought of is how to control the German/Italian flow, thus the 8 turns. Though, Both will be limited to a set amount of points they can use per landing, gaining points depending on what they occupy.
Example
45 points starting, Gemany gains control of a UK port, adding 2 points simulating a port being used for landing.
The UK will have more than Germany and Italy on a one to one basis, but will have to split between two fronts.Italy will have a slight advantage naval air wise, using the Aquila as a mobile airbase to launch fighters or dive bombers.
The Untied States will slowly send units to Ireland to aide the UK, and hopefully launch a counter invasion.
Units
Naval
All ships will be modified to take into the account they cant be built or cost (subject to change)
Carriers and BB 4 hit points
Cruisers Destroyers 2
Transports 2
Subs 1
Carriers and Transports can carry double (2 tanks, 2 infantry/ 4 planes)Cities and ports
Cities and ports will, though not a new idea, be a separate zone. It can be possible to encircle a city, making the defenders attack on a -die role, except for units attacking on a one already.Other changes
Secret Weapons
The same rules from Axis and Allies will apply here, Super submarines will be a bit useless as the ground war and air support is more important.
I dont have any plans for fuel or ammo supplies, but that is subject as well.Just a rough idea, any comments or ideas welcome. Criticism is ok, but none of that (nope, stupid idea no one cares) bull please.
Thanks for reading. Hope to have a map up soon. -
I would rather something be made dealing only with planes. Battle of Britain and 1943-45 air war over Germany…something like old Avalon Hills Luftwaffe.
You got lots of planes by HBG and AA games including AA1941 He-111
The map would be large hexes.
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@Imperious:
I would rather something be made dealing only with planes. Battle of Britain and 1943-45 air war over Germany…something like old Avalon Hills Luftwaffe.
You got lots of planes by HBG and AA games including AA1941 He-111
The map would be large hexes.
Ill look into that possiblity as well. Perhaps ill make two maps, one for the invasion, the other for air combat.
The air one could have two scenarios
First
The battle of Britain. Not much to explain there.
Objectives
UK holds out for x turns
Germany has x turns to destroy x amount of ICPs in the ways of bombing factories, cities and destroying RAF units. This one would make use of counters for fuel and etc…
Example
RAF bombs a German Airbase in France, targeting the German bombers and fuel stocks, destroying 2 bombers and 5 fuel out of 7.
Also, as optional rules, could include convoys straffing (attacking fuel leaving supply depots/0 perhaps commandos (Attacking airfields and destroying x amount of items"
It could include radar sites, and downed pilot set ups
Pilot set up could be
Example
Germany loses one ME109 and roles a die. 1 or 2 means pilot surived. Germany has 2 turns to rescue the pilot, gaining a single ICP. UK can capture pilot, gaining the ICP.
It could help the UK when it needs all the ICP it can get.
Also could include mission cards, such as attacking a certain hex with a port, or event cards, protect the bismarck etc… Perhaps weather cards, though im not sure how to add that.
Second set up
V1/V2 busting.
Not sure what the goal here would be for Germany, UK would be to destroy the V1/2 sites before losing X amount of ICP. Might have to think about this one a bit more.
Any ways, thanks for the reply. Any ideas you have feel free to shoot them my way. -
Bit more thinking
The Air War can be point based, each objective granting points. Each card is drawn at random.
Failed missions are returned to the mission pile, while each side had a continuious mission.
German Examples
Mission Title
See Krieg
Objectives
Be on the watch for hostile convoys along the UK coast and target any armed warship.
Targets
Escort Ships, armed merchants, capital ships.UK
Mission Title
Hamilton
Objective
The Germans are using a bridge in sector x to move supplies across a river. Taking out this bridge will add more time to the resupplying of certain airbases.
Targets
Bridge in Sector X and Targets of Opportunity (Supply trucks etc…)Continuous will be simple
Destroy the enemy ability to wage war on the X nation.
Destroy X amount of Radar, X amount of Aircraft, X amount of bases.Special scenarios like Dunkirk can be added, though Ill expand on this later.
Each card will have a turn limit, or can be done at will. Though I like the done at will since it allows the player to do them depending on what he has.
Besides adding victory points, the cards can add ICP points, depending on the mission. Destroying a fighter is less rewarding than attacking a Factory for example.Movement points. If fuel tokens are used, then i think the set up can be like this
Single engine aircraft, 1 fuel per mission.
Dual, 2
Multi, 3
The only free movement you get is flying from a staging field (Where German planes are “built” or a Factory/Harbor (UK). Though planes can leave those areas with ammo if ammo is used.
Transports Planes, im not sure if they should be included, or if bombers can double as transports when needed. -
Update
I have started work on the gameplay concepts for the Seelowe game.
Using a made up map for the time being, till i can create a UK map.On other notes, the Air War Game is a bit complicated.
I like the idea of mission based game play, but I dont want to limit the players to only that.
Any ideas here would be intresting.
I been watching videos about the following
Avalon Hill Luftwaffe
Night Fighter - A really neat idea, but it seems more “local” based game play than theater like seelowe is.Im going to be testing both with HBG items and the 41 AnA game.
On thing i ran into is, how do you hide your units (if this is not wanted, let me know.) As in, both players will always know where your units are. I was thinking of perhaps airbase cards, where you place the planes on the corresponding card. This would help with board clutter as well.
Any Ideas are welcomed.Things to do at the moment (Will be part of a updated first post)
Maps-1 for seelowe and air (Will need help with this part.)
Game-play Testing
Victory Set up- Air (At the moment, it seems like a gain x amount of points.)
Possible rules for modern warfare? -
Take a look at the rules for Luftwaffe and emulate them for AA. That is your best bet IMO. All the homework is already done and Luftwaffe is very balanced.
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Guys,
––Sounds like an interesting concept to me!
“Tall Paul”
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Thanks for the support, to both of you. Hopefully I can order a copy of Luftwaffe as it looks fun, and use it as a base line.
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Here is the link. The game comes with a booklet with all the numbers and stats you need. Use the OOB to bring in all the planes, some of which you need to order because HBG dont make them ( He-162, Me-163, etc).
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Thanks alot IL, this will go a long way in solving alot of things. I really like the wide range of possiblities with missions and the small tactics (basing aircraft farther from air raids) that can affect the out come.
In this case, I think Ill switch the role of Germany and America, Germany being the attacker, and America (Now the UK for Seelowe) being the defender.
Thankfully, I know of a place to get the extra missing aircraft in the same scale as AnA and HBG. And at a good price too. -
To get inspired, watch episodes of Twelve O’clock High. That is what got me going with this idea.
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Update. Been doing play test missions own my own using luftwaffe.
Turn Play EX4 B17
2 Spits
Target Uboat PinsDefenders
4 Me 109s (110s were destroyed a bit earlier in a mission into London on a “randomn mission” card i made.
Some things added
Radar roll. Germany can roll a radar check to see if they can scramble aircraft before the Allies get in range. This failed.
The 109s were on low fuel rations, thanks to a earlier bomber raid. This meant that they could only do 1 attack sweep,The Spits went in first, engaging the 109s
1 109 was downed, while the other 3 continued to the b17s.
1 b17 was damaged, forcing it to return home, in which it was not pursued.
The spits turned and engaged the 109s, who were on thier last round of combat. the second b17 was untouched.
The spits chased the 109s down, damaging one, other 2 safely returning.
The damaged 109 was out of the fight until supplies could reach its air base.Still dont have a good map yet. using a drawn one.
Still working on implementing the rules from Luft. Real life takes time away from the seelowe plans unfortunately.
Just though id give a little update on the status, to show its not dead and gone.
Still working on the land, but that might have to wait till a later time, as the air war seems a bit easier and funner. -
Here’s one suggestion you might want to consider. Before you focus on the finer details of the game mechanics, you might want to pull back and look at the broad elements of your overall scenario, to make sure that: a) the scenario is sound and credible, and b) that no major considerations have been overlooked. As a reference point, start by looking at the planning and preparations that went into the Overlord cross-Channel invasion in June 1944, then use that information as a template to figure out what kind of planning and preparations the Germans would have needed to carry out to pull off a successful Sealion.
Britain and the U.S. were both world-class naval powers who were used to thinking in naval terms (both strategically, operationally and tactically) and who had vast numbers of ships at their disposal – yet it took them two years to plan Overlord and to build up the required infrastructure for it. The factors they had to consider ranged from very broad ones (the choice of the overall landing areas; the establishment of air superiority over France), to intermediate-level mechanics (planning the order in which the paratroops planes would depart from multiple airfields and the routes they would take to and from France; creating the PLUTO pipeline to convey fuel across the Channel to support the invasion forces until a port could be captured) to very small technical details (like providing US paratroops with clickers to recognize each other in the dark after landing in enemy territory).
Germany, by contrast, approached Sealion in 1940 in a spirit of hazy improvisation. Germany wss traditionally a land power, and it made the mistake of treating Sealion as basically just a large-scale river-crossing operation. The Wehrmacht was very skilled at river crossings…but the point is that the English Channel is not a river. It’s much wider, and it sometimes experiences severe weather conditions unlike anything found on a Continental river.
The good thing about your scenario is that it’s set in 1942, not 1940, which means that Germany will have had about two years (since the fall of France) to plan and prepare it. So in working out your scenario, you should start by figuring out the broad-level strategic and operational requirements Germany would have had to meet to pull off a succesful Sealion, and to determine how Germany would have spent the period from 1940 to 1942 refining these plans and creating the infrastructure for this operation. Answering these questions will tell you what elements will need to be in place at the start of your actual game, what objectives Germany will have, and thus what counter-objectives the Anglo-Americans will need to have in order to defeat the invasion. Essentially, the Sealion in your game should be an operation that Germany has planned and prepared for two years, rather than a semi-spontaneous operation improvised as the result of an Italian suggestion.
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I have been working out some background story.
Since the war turned from where it was in 42, to something completely different such as
Russia is on the brink of losing, Moscow having fallen, Kursk taking place earlier than expected, resulting in a Russian defeat. Japan has landed in parts in Russia. Stalin launched a failed attack to take moscow, resulting in even greater losses.German and Italy, have been planning the invasion since 1940 instead of the spontaneous suggestion. Japan, has sent advisers “via uboat” to help plan the invasion.
This lead to captured french ships being put to use as cargo ships or troop carriers.
Dedicated landing ships are built in Germany using Italian materials.
The Luftwaffe invest in gliders that can carry light tanks. Hitler, despite his desire to do so, is persuaded to not switch from attacking the RAF to attacking civilians.Thus, Germany should have the following objectives.
Control X amounts of supply centers.
The UK, would be the same.I might have to abandon France from the game, as it just added unnecessary fluff. The UK is the main focus of attention, as is Ireland. This would allow me to make a larger map.
With this being said, I am trying to make two games, a new version of Luftwaffe, and another of AnA variant. -
Im still working on this, just slowly as real life has taken hold.
I shifted my priority from Seelowe, to a European air war, with a possible expansion to the air war on the east.
One thing Im working on is air base cards.
The reason behind this is that Im not using chips and counters, but rather HBG and picoarmor air units.
Thus, in order to reduce the clutter, I decided to use air base cards.
As of right now, the air bases are generic runway and hanger pictures. Though I hope to create more detailed cards of individual airbases.The map. Having trouble making the map. I been using AnA Europe as my map.
Just thought to give a small update on the progress.
Once I get the airbase cards done, Ill upload them so you guys and gals can download them.Till the next update, Ill be testing when I can.
Thanks for reading this.
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