G40 Enhanced begins. All are welcome.


  • Wonder what others think of this: Leave battleships at 20 IPCs, along with the other cost changes.
    TRN-6, SS-7, DD-8, CA-10, CV-15, BB-20

    Make battleships overpriced, inefficient, ‘terror weapons’ as they were in the real war.
    -Roll 2 dice for battleships during conduct convoy disruption. (Same as planes and subs)
    -In addition; UK and USA will roll a single dice during convoy disruption for each enemy battleship that is not in a convoy zone, and is on their respective side of the map board.
    (Similar to ‘unrestricted sub warfare’ in 1914)
    -UK Europe will roll for axis BBs on the europe side of the map board.
    -UK Pacific will for axis BBs on the pacific side of the map board.
    -USA will roll for all axis BBs.

    This will create a more historical simulation of battleships. They were built primarily to raid enemy shipping from out of range of escorts, and to generally strike fear into the enemy. The allies went to exceeding lengths to sink these behemoths (see: Bismarck and Yamato)

    This also creates a more diverse roll for each the cruiser and the battleship in game.
    The cruiser being the superior combat unit. (as it should be)
    The battleship being the overrated but sometimes effective, economic/propaganda threat.

  • '17 '16

    @BluGerman:

    Yeah i didn’t have high hopes for it actually working myself :( I seem to be a man of many faulty ideas. Maybe after another thousand tries ill get the lightbulb right

    This idea isn’t silly at all.
    You can find similar ones on this thread and some interesting historical oriented post on cruiser also:
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=32165.msg1202619#msg1202619

  • '17 '16

    @Uncrustable:

    @Uncrustable:

    @Cmdr:

    let Naval Base AA Guns defend fleets in adjacent sea zones instead?  Would result in more bases being purchased as well, I wager.

    i like this
    interesting…

    would have to be limited
    3 AA rolls, or number of attacking planes, whichever is less
    defense only
    must be operational?

    I find this idea interesting.
    3 AA roll @1 is simpler.
    But it don’t seem historically accurate:
    warships and subs defend better out in the ocean, not at the sea-port.
    So giving the same AA as a ground AAA seems to much to me.

    You can already scramble up to 3 planes.

    Maybe you can have a mix:
    either 3 planes and 0 AA
    2 planes and 1 AA,
    1 planes and 2 AA,
    0 planes and 3 AA.
    Of course it is AA played as usually: preemptive and up to 1 roll/plane.

  • Customizer

    I think much of the debate has been settled in a certain directions but I’ll add my two cents.

    I would level the cost of the CA and BB and reverse the A/D stats 3/4 or 4/3  specific to either vessel much like the fighter and TacB. I’d give the CA ASW capabilty 1:1 ratio vs. SS. I’d drop the two HP and offer 1:1 ratio AAA vs. Air for the BB.

    Yes it is ahistorical I agree. It does solve some problems and gives a reason to buy either ship while promoting diverse fleets.

    The costs I have run no figures for but I would suggest an even cost between the BB and CA that corroborates with the cost of DD and SS units.


  • Toblerone what do you think of this instead:

    @Uncrustable:

    Leave battleships at 20 IPCs, along with the other cost changes.
    TRN-6, SS-7, DD-8, CA-10, CV-15, BB-20

    Make battleships overpriced, inefficient, ‘terror weapons’ as they were in the real war.
    -Roll 2 dice for battleships during conduct convoy disruption. (Same as planes and subs)
    -In addition; UK and USA will roll a single dice during convoy disruption for each enemy battleship that is not in a convoy zone, and is on their respective side of the map board.
    (Similar to ‘unrestricted sub warfare’ in 1914)
    -UK Europe will roll for axis BBs on the europe side of the map board.
    -UK Pacific will for axis BBs on the pacific side of the map board.
    -USA will roll for all axis BBs.

    This will create a more historical simulation of battleships. They were built primarily to raid enemy shipping from out of range of escorts, and to generally strike fear into the enemy. The allies went to exceeding lengths to sink these behemoths (see: Bismarck and Yamato)

    This also creates a more diverse roll for each the cruiser and the battleship in game.
    The cruiser being the superior combat unit. (as it should be)
    The battleship being the overrated but sometimes effective, economic/propaganda threat.

  • Customizer

    I’m kind of like Cmdr Jenn in the fact that I prefer cruisers to BBs anyway. I usually don’t buy them and use smaller vessels to escort carriers and planes. So although we might have differing thoughts on some things, I’m not that big on Battleships anyway, so this change is fine by me.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Uncrustable:

    @Uncrustable:

    @Cmdr:

    let Naval Base AA Guns defend fleets in adjacent sea zones instead?  Would result in more bases being purchased as well, I wager.

    i like this
    interesting…

    would have to be limited
    3 AA rolls, or number of attacking planes, whichever is less
    defense only
    must be operational?

    Oh, I agree!  Naval bases should be operational at the start of the hostile player’s turn (so Japan cannot bomb a naval base in Gibraltar and then follow up with an air strike on the ships there that same turn, just to prevent the guns from firing.)  You could have more than one base, however, so Korea/Japan could both protect the Sea of Japan for instance. (Would have to buy a naval base for Korea, but that’s player’s choice if they want to do so - just like they can buy an airbase and scramble 6 aircraft for that sea zone.)

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Blu -

    I’ve used “half battleships” before in games, but we have the cruiser now which is essentially a half battleship.  If you wanted to introduce a unit like that at home, I would suggest a ATT 4, DEF 4 - 1 hit unit that costs 14 or 16 IPC.  I don’t think we need it in enhanced.

    Escort carriers would be interesting as well - Crusty - but I am not sure if needed (so I agree with you.)  I’ve used them before as well, in games, what we did was cut the price of the carrier in half and limited them to one plane on deck.  At the time we had destroyers and said destroyers and escort carriers could move 3 spaces (again, there were no naval bases back then, so…) We ran into issues with transports and decided to let a single transport, if escorted by both a destroyer and an escort carrier, also move 3 spaces.  It was fun, don’t think we need it though.


  • Trying to get peoples thoughts on this…

    Leave battleships at 20 IPCs, along with the other cost changes.
    TRN-6, SS-7, DD-8, CA-10, CV-15, BB-20

    Make battleships overpriced, inefficient, ‘terror weapons’ as they were in the real war.
    -Roll 2 dice for battleships during conduct convoy disruption. (Same as planes and subs)
    -In addition; UK and USA will roll a single dice during convoy disruption for each enemy battleship that is not in a convoy zone, and is on their respective side of the map board.
    (Similar to ‘unrestricted sub warfare’ in 1914)
    -UK Europe will roll for axis BBs on the europe side of the map board.
    -UK Pacific will for axis BBs on the pacific side of the map board.
    -USA will roll for all axis BBs.

    This will create a more historical simulation of battleships. They were built primarily to raid enemy shipping from out of range of escorts, and to generally strike fear into the enemy. The allies went to exceeding lengths to sink these behemoths (see: Bismarck and Yamato)

    This also creates a more diverse roll for each the cruiser and the battleship in game.
    The cruiser being the superior combat unit. (as it should be)
    The battleship being the overrated but sometimes effective, economic/propaganda threat.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Sounds okay.  Not sure really….so you are basically saying if a battleship is adjacent to enemy territories, even if it is not a convoy zone, it can do convoy damage?

    Might be better to just let them shell naval bases, air bases and minor complexes if in an adjacent sea zone - but it counts as a combat action (start in said sea zone, elect to conduct shelling INSTEAD of moving or engaging enemies and of course, there could be no enemies in said sea zone.)  Little simpler, lets them both do CRD and Shell.


  • @Cmdr:

    Sounds okay.  Not sure really….so you are basically saying if a battleship is adjacent to enemy territories, even if it is not a convoy zone, it can do convoy damage?

    Might be better to just let them shell naval bases, air bases and minor complexes if in an adjacent sea zone - but it counts as a combat action (start in said sea zone, elect to conduct shelling INSTEAD of moving or engaging enemies and of course, there could be no enemies in said sea zone.)  Little simpler, lets them both do CRD and Shell.

    Your idea would work too, however not very often you let a BB park outside your ICs, bases.

    Mine was for USA and UK to roll for Axis battleships that are not in convoy zones. Those axis BBs do not need to be any specific place (shore or open ocean) other than not in a convoy zone.
    So basically USA will roll atleast 1 dice for every axis battleship on the map, except for the ones in convoy zones.
    The dice are the same as any convoy dice, except no damage limit. (roll 1 dice, 1-3 is that damage, 4-6 is no damage)
    BBs in convoy zones are simply treated like subs and planes are now (2 dice)

    Leaving cost at 20 IPCs, or even higher

    This creates a inefficient unit with regards to combat, very overpriced. (as they were in the real war)
    But they can be potentially dangerous out raiding convoys and for negative propaganda reasons.
    Allies would likely not purchase too many battleships, where the axis may
    Allies may ‘hunt down’ axis BBs

    creates some historical realism, while also making the cruiser the clear victor in combat (as it should be)
    cruiser and BB would have 2 distinct roles

  • '17 '16

    I wonder if this could be a workable incentive to buy Battleship.
    When you can buy 2 cruisers for the same price, with much more combat capacity than 1 single BB.

    A6D6C20 2 bombard @3 vs 1A4D4C20, 2 hits, bombard 1@4.

    Then it needs more than the promises that you can hurt the enemy’s economy, as Bomber or Subs can do but at a far lesser cost: 3 subs (21 IPCs) in convoy zones = 6 dice 1-3.


  • but a submarine must be in a convoy zone
    bombers can die to AA

    a single axis battleship on either side of the board, that is not in a convoy zone, can potentially cost the allies 6 IPCs (3UK 3 USA) per turn, with no risk to the battleship

    could make it simpler, and strengthen it a tad. USA, UKpac, UK euro roll 1 dice for axis battleship no matter where they are at
    roll 2 dice for BBs in convoy zones like submarines and planes do now

    so a battleship in a convoy zone could potentially cost up to 6 (loss for axis) or 9 (loss for allies)

    have to be careful making to too powerful though

    In summation:
    USA rolls 1 convoy dice for each axis battleship on the board. No damage limit.
    UK pac would roll for each axis battleship on the pacific board
    UK euro would roll for each axis battleship on the europe board
    in addition, during the conduct convoy phase roll 2 dice for battleships in convoy zones (same as planes and subs)

    Again BB would become an inefficient combat unit, but a ‘terror weapon’ so to speak. ‘Rampaging around the board’.
    Could even add a NO for USA and UK if there are no Axis battleships. (Would make historical sense)
    Cruisers would now be the best all around combat naval unit (when factoring in bombard). As they rightfully should be.

    Obviously you wouldnt see a battleship spam, but Axis would purchase 1 every now and again (more often than cruisers are purchased now imo)
    And cruisers would really go from afterthought, to the workhorse of your fleet.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Oh!  I thought it was American and British battleships doing the damage!  Okay, then I would make it any Axis battleship in the Med, S. Atlantic, N. Atlantic or Adriatic because Japanese battleships, I don’t think, were raiding American shipping all that much in the Pacific…could be wrong.

    I still kinda like BBs being able to shell enemy bases (and minor complexes) if parked along side the adjacent sea zone.  It’s not something you would do often and it would not be your whole strategy for building BBs, but it would be nice for both sides in those cases when the BBs are there and for whatever reason, you do not want to do anything else.

  • '17 '16

    @Cmdr:

    Oh!  I thought it was American and British battleships doing the damage!  Okay, then I would make it any Axis battleship in the Med, S. Atlantic, N. Atlantic or Adriatic because Japanese battleships, I don’t think, were raiding American shipping all that much in the Pacific…could be wrong.

    **I still kinda like BBs being able to shell enemy bases (and minor complexes) if parked along side the adjacent sea zone. ** It’s not something you would do often and it would not be your whole strategy for building BBs, but it would be nice for both sides in those cases when the BBs are there and for whatever reason, you do not want to do anything else.Â

    Me too.


  • The convoy dice outside of convoy zones would represent more than just raiding convoys.
    And would be stronger than bombing ICs
    Which for starters would make little realistic sense seeing the range needed for such a task
    And would probably not even be used all that often


  • For my thanksgiving game here is what we will be playing:

    Cost changes:
    Air/Naval bases     12 IPCs
    Tactical bombers   10 IPCs
    Cruisers               10 IPCs
    -Evasive maneuvers, each transport caught undefended by an attacking warship or plane may roll 1 dice. A roll of a 1 is a successful evasive maneuver and that transport is removed from battle and placed back on the game board, a transport that evaded an enemy attack while undefended may not unload units until its next turn.
    -Roll 2 dice for battleships during conduct convoy disruption. (Same as planes and subs)
    -In addition, UK and USA will roll a single dice during convoy disruption for each Axis battleship. (Excluding the Baltic and Black Seas. SZs 113, 114, 115 and 100)
    –UK Pacific will roll for Axis battleships on the Pacific side.
    –UK Europe will roll for Axis battleships on the Europe side.
    –USA will roll for all Axis battleships.

    Neutral blocks. If a strict neutral territory is attacked by one side, all the strict neutrals in that block immediately are mobilized for the other side. If the other side cannot decide which neutrals will join which nation, the attacker of the first neutral will decide.
    Mongolian block: (all Mongolian territories) Rules remain OOB.
    South American block:  Venezuela, Columbia, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Rio de oro, Portuguese guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Angola, Mozambique
    European block:  Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Sweden.
    African block: Rio de oro, Portuguese guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Angola, Mozambique.
    Middle-eastern block: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan
    Neutral militia setup changes:
    Sweden: 4 INF, 1 ART, 1 AAA
    Yugoslavia: 4 INF, 1 ART
    Spain: 4 INF, 1 ART, 1 AAA
    Turkey: 5 INF, 1 ART, 1 ARM, 1 AAA

    Strategic Rail Movement.
    During the noncombat move phase, all friendly home territory VCs give +1 movement to all land units who began their turn in that territory.

    Technology Rules:
    Each power will receive tech tokens, based on their current production value at the beginning of their respective turns.
    Additional tokens may not be purchased.
    Only nations at war participate. China will never participate.
    National Objective income does not count towards tech rolls, neither does IPCs saved.
    A roll of 6 is a breakthrough, roll to see what tech you get in the category you chose.
    A roll of 1 is a token lost.
    0-24IPCs = 1 token
    25-49IPCs = 2 tokens
    50-99IPCs = 3 tokens
    100+IPCs = 4 tokens
    Unsuccessful tokens not lost, remain until that powers next turn.
    Additional tokens may not be purchased.

    Tech Categories: (All technologies as OOB)
    Army Doctrine

    (1-2)Paratroopers
    (3-4)Adv Artillery
    (5-6)Improved Mech

    Naval & Aviation Technology
    (1-2)Super Submarines
    (3-4)Rockets
    (5-6)Radar

    Infrastructure
    (1-2)Increased Factory Production
    (3-4)Improved Shipyards
    (5-6)War Bonds

    Combat Aviation
    (1-2)Jet Fighters
    (3-4)Long Range Aircraft
    (5-6)Heavy Bombers

  • '17 '16

    Have fun, hope you can try everything to your satisfaction.
    Let us know your debriefing thoughts.
    I bolded above the points which have my highest interest.

  • '17 '16

    How was your game of G40e?
    Funny or not?
    Able to try something new or not?


    I was thinking about cost of cruiser and battleship… again.

    I have a totally different way to achieve some kind of fair battle to improve the worthiness of both, probably too unbalancing but I throw it anyway:

    Treat cruiser as an Heavy Cruiser for real:
    CA A3D3C12 bombard @3, 2 hits

    CV stay the same as OOB: A0D2C16, 2 hits, after 1 hit loose all landing capacity.

    BB A4D4C20, bombard @4, 3 hits.

    If it is too much,
    we can consider that, almost the same as the carrier, when cruiser and BB are at their last hit (cruiser hit once, BB hit twice),
    they can no more bombard, nor attack or defend, but still surviving and be able to repair at a Naval Base.

    They are costly units, so any player will think twice before loosing them once and for all. It can open somekind of tactical decision on the spot, during the battle.

    They can be like floating defenseless and cripple wreck while other units (mostly planes and carrier taking a hit) still taken as casualties until the player see no other issue than sinking them.

    Or, while taking hits, decides to sink a carrier instead of loosing the defensive capacity of the battleship by taking an additional hit… Just to realize after a few lucky dices, it would have been better to cripple the BB, to save both: the carrier and the BB (just an example).


  • Game went well, one battleship purchased by japan.
    Several cruisers by USA, 1 by Italy

    Played LHs 42 however to save on time.
    Neutral blocks were very fun.
    2 transports evaded during the game. Including a German one in the med, which died the next round after chucking 2 more infantry to Tobruk

    The tech rules were especially fun.
    Everyone got to roll them, and splitting them up into 4 categories is so much better.
    UK rolled 1s on its first 3 tech rolls, losing them.

    Overall nothing was too game altering, or too complicated.
    And all added some fun factor.

    Italy being able to afford a cruiser is a big positive. Little nations need some help to make them more fun

    I would never be in favor of 3 hit units as there really isn’t a good way to keep track of it F2F

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