Does anyone else play a slow game as Japan?



  • Just wondering if anyone else plays a slow game as japan? I mean, realistically, if you rush to take as much territory as possible, and hit every front at once, you’re just more likely to burn yourself out with one bad roll of the dice. I prefer to take a nice long steady assault, and take little to no risks. If I’m gonna win as Japan, it will usually be after turn 10. I try to make my IPC go up by 2-5 each turn. Once you match the States Pacific output, it’s game over. Any thoughts?


  • 2018 2017 2016

    The game does frame the dilemma for Japan pretty well: slog through China for little economic gain while ANZAC and India fortify themselves or strike first to catch them off guard. The NO for trading with the US is a nice carrot for curbing aggression, but it can be offset pretty quickly, especially by the DEI.

    I believe there have been polls for preferred start times for Japanese DOW, R1 has gotten popular, but R2 seems to be the standard.



  • I like to attack all the nations other than china on turn 3. I find that getting that 10 bonus for not being at war for the stakes a much bigger boost than taking the DEI’s and losing transports. Your navy isn’t big enough IMO to hold them, protect your transports AND hold off the States. I’d rather take the guaranteed 10 IPC then risking it and going for the 20 IPC’s, but sacrificing transports. Maybe it depends on who you play with what your strategies will be.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    I like to keep the Americans sitting next to their coastline on the Europe side while Germany goes into Russia.  So that means attacking UK/USA/ANZAC/France no earlier than J4.  In the meantime, Russia and China are fair game.



  • There is nothing good about a slow Japan, but its possible to delay declearing war IF you hit Soviet hard and take all their territry east of moscow. Attacking only china is not good though as China plays very little role in the vicotry city system (the Idea beeing that Axis needs to maximize their treath of victory).



  • I find that a fast Japan is a Japan that won’t be able to hold on to the territory it takes. What’s the point in having 5 cities if all your units are so spread thin that you can’t defend them?


  • Customizer

    I agree with you Kurt Knispel. As Japan, I have found my best games is when I hold off attacking the Western Allies until round 3 or 4. I’ll usually pound on China and maybe attack Russia (depending on what they do with all those Siberian units) and build up a good force of navy with transports in that sea zone that has Hainan in it, next to French Indo China. Then I lash out at everything and will usually get French Indo China, Hong Kong, Philippines, 2 of the DEI islands and Malaya all in one attack. Then I usually can get the rest of the DEI and see how good a target India is while seeing how much the US has invested in the Pacific.
    If the US has a smallish fleet, then I might be able to go after India round 3 or 4. If the US has gone heavy Pacific, I may have to do the slow crawl to India over land while my fleet deals with the US Navy.

    The first time I did a J1 DOW, it was successful because it shocked the Allied players so. Ever since then it turns out to be a miserable failure because of like you said, Japan gets too thinly spread out and gets picked apart.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    One approach might be to have Japan build a few bombers each turn and send them to Europe.  Use them to SBR Moscow and later to sink an allied invasion fleet.



  • I feel that delaying until turn 4 only works if you keep the US from getting to queens right away.  The best allied plan to J4 I think is US going heavy pac to secure the allied position and to keep Japan at bay.  It should not require too much(3-4 turns worth) since India will have a large garrison and Anzac would be strong enough to pick off most of the japanese transports.  Then, the US can come into euro at full force.

    The only way J4 seems to work, is if you can keep the US as far away as possible, and/or, make it look like you will declare on 2 or 3.  If the allies know you are waiting to turn 4, you are screwed.



  • GHR is pretty on the money I feel.

    Generally I believe that J should declare on J2 or J3, depending on the circumstances.

    There is little question that delaying past J2 gives Anzac and India a chance to be more than just speedbumps, but J3 is certainly viable.  I feel the best benefit of J3 is to benefit the Europe side of the board, most notably Italy, and so my decision on which turn depends on a few factors.

    1. Where did USA put its first buy?  If he put most of it Atlantic, thats a vote for J3, if its heavy pac, then waiting gives the allies an excellent chance to match or exceed the J fleet in the mid game.

    2. What did India and Anzac do with their trannies?  Sumatra and java takes are a strong signal that J2 is preferable.  Allowing these powers to make that much money, AND bring the trannies home for a second use, is a BIG detriment to making good progress towards threatening a victory in the pac theatre.

    GHR is EXACTLY right that the key to doing a good J3 is to have a credible threat to J2, so that the allies cant cheat a few moves that will ONLY work when they know japan isnt going to attack them on turn 2.  When I see J trannies go north on turn 1, for example, I can move the malaya inf home to india, I can buy a naked tranny for aussie, and/or a few other choice moves that simply dont work if J is going to be able to attack me.

    I find that most of the games where I delay to J3, UK declares first, and laps up that sweet mid-high twenties income, and Anzac will eanr about 20 as well, which makes toppling India any time before turns 7-10 extremely difficult, and usually means a huge fleet on the other flank if I do push hard on India.



  • My current state of mind with Japan,

    is that this Major Power can win the game for the axis if attacking early (J2), but this often guarantees the Germans cannot!

    If attacking late (J3 or J4), I find that Japan’s chances to win the game are gone, but Germany on the other hand can win the game.

    When playing Japan I always review ONE thing first before deciding when to attack (and my axis friends are aware of that): what is the USA going to do?
    This automatically means no J1 attack, unless Germany and I together agreed on both chasing Russia in which case I will start hunting Russians J1 and will not attack ANZACUSUKI till J4 and let them come.

    If I see (as an extreme example which happens to be not so extreme for some of my friends) the USA putting every ship it has in Panama, build a Harbor there and placing new builds in Europe (1 of my friends LOVES to crush Germany/Italy like this) I usually decide 1 of 2 things:
    � 1). I ATTACK (Philipines + Java + the obvious targets on SE Asia) because I want the US to commit to 1 theatre or the other. If the US goes to Europe (which he most certainly will given the preparations) I sortie to take Sydney J5 and Honolulu J6 or J7. Combined with Philipines and Hong Kong = Sudden death for the allies. The USA can stop this but it will be very hard and means major commitment from US3 and on, leaving the Germans alone for the next 3 turns.
    � 2). I decide to WAIT and not attack until even J4 sometimes because I want to give Germany and Italy a chance to win.

    I tend to favor attacking and threatening to win J6 or J7 because if the USA can get their focus on GermItaly going, it usually doesnt matter anymore what Japan does or does not, save forcing the USA to pay attention to the Pacific again.

    If I see the USA keeping a strong enough presence on the Pacific map (meaning Germany is safe until turn 4 anyway no matter what I do, I will ATTACK J2, possibly going for the India crush or the slower approach through China (and Russia) whilst isolating Calcutta anyway.

    In any case I think you should never try to take 3 islands in the same turn AND try to protect all the transports.
    That means spreading too thinly indeed.
    Sacrifice 1 or 2 TRS seems ok (if you have like 7 or more), but I always keep a minimum of 5 TRS protected. Which usually means a slower approach because splitting your fleet in two � is about as stretched as you can get(so not taking more than 2 islands a turn), unless you are also protected by scramblers, kamikazes or an outer defense perimeter.

    So, I think what is best for Japan and the Axis cause in particular, really depends on the situation.



  • @ghr2:

    I feel that delaying until turn 4 only works if you keep the US from getting to queens right away.

    I find a good way to block the US from getting to queensland is to put destroyers as almost blocker units in the sea zones around queensland. They stop the US from getting there, and can be used as attackers once you’re ready to attack.


  • 2017

    @Kurt:

    @ghr2:

    I feel that delaying until turn 4 only works if you keep the US from getting to queens right away.

    I find a good way to block the US from getting to queensland is to put destroyers as almost blocker units in the sea zones around queensland. They stop the US from getting there, and can be used as attackers once you’re ready to attack.

    What do you mean by almost?

    Destroyers don’t block anything if there isn’t a state of war yet.



  • I think the best way to remove preasure from Germany is to be agressive with Japan and mabye even take out India early. This means an early DOW. Force US to buy 100% pac and relive Germany. Remember that if there was no victory conditions allies wins all the time (kgf). DONT EVER NEGLECT WINNING. Focusing on china alone gets you NOWHERE.

    A smart US player will see his chance to spend much more income in the atlantic due to the slow Japan actually needing less attention. If Japan Dow round 1-2 (round 3 is plausible, but then UK and Anzac will collect their obj round 2) they can force the US to a standstill in pacific (not forever ofc but long enough that Germany takes Moscow), even if US spend all their income there.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    What would be the best way to get USA to focus on Japan rather than Germany?  Would it be to just grab the DEIs and build several carriers or would USA be more concerned if you crush India early, like on J3 following a J2 DOW to kill blockers and secure a landing spot.  Something else maybe?



  • I find a good way to make America focus on Japan is by taking Hawaii. That usually scares them into investing large amounts of income into the pacific.



  • @Kurt:

    I find a good way to make America focus on Japan is by taking Hawaii. That usually scares them into investing large amounts of income into the pacific.

    Depends on when and how that is done.



  • @ghr2:

    @Kurt:

    I find a good way to make America focus on Japan is by taking Hawaii. That usually scares them into investing large amounts of income into the pacific.

    Depends on when and how that is done.

    I am thinking in the same line as Kurt here. Must be a Major Japanese investment into Hawai then, which also threatens San Fransisco and Panama (and after Panama, New York).

    Another way (proven good to me): take Sydney J5 and then Hawai J6 or J7, winning the game on 6VC. The USA has to react to this with major investments into the Pacific from USA3 and on, or else.

    Maybe a ‘surprise’ attack on the USA itself could work if you can conceal the growing threat -mainly TRS + cargo- for a while by sending it towards India/ANZAC first and then catch the USA off guard J7. 
    If the USA doesnt buy the Japanese concealments at least the goal of making it spend more than just a little on the Pacific has succeded. I have never tried it but plans for it are distilling for some time now.



  • That’s an interesting idea, going after Panama and New York. I might have to try that…

    Honestly, I never really considered actually trying to capture the US any thought. It just seems too… big. And kind of a gamble too.



  • @Kurt:

    That’s an interesting idea, going after Panama and New York. I might have to try that…

    Honestly, I never really considered actually trying to capture the US any thought. It just seems too… big. And kind of a gamble too.

    Yup, same here  :-).
    I think it really is a gambit, and I have yet to test its dos and donts and if the rewards outweigh the downsides. So far it is just a theory: potentially Japan can cause major sweating for the USA on the positive side, whilst relieving China and UKI/ANZAC after turn 4/5 or so at the downside (but they will not know it/be sure about it till turn 5/6).

    At maximum focus and efficiency, Japan can have a minimum of 33 fully loaded TRS, 66 land units and 21 aircraft + the entire IJN threatening Alaska, San Fransisco, Mexico, Central America and New York at the same time (if operating mainly from Panama with or without a NB that the USA has built there itself…).
    😄 If the gambit is ignored USA doesnt see that the threat can be aimed directly at its mainland -you must conceal your moves first couple of turns, making every1 think you are going after India over sea, then turn around making sure your TRS are operating from New Zealand, Carolines and Japan J6/J7-. After 1 more turn you will be in range of all the USA mainland territories and it has had 2 turns only to prepare, placing a maximum of 48 infantry for its defence…
    Downside is that your Asian mainland territories look pretty weak/empty now but oh my if the gambit works the rewards, the rewards; at minimal effect Japan will only capture Honolulu, San Fransisco, Alaska, Mexico, Panama and the USA will be down to 37 IPCs per turn for a long time. If you also manage to get Central USA…
    😮 If the gamblit is taken (the USA doesnt fall for the trick) you can use all those TRS for a late rampage through Sydney and Calcutta and you have at least achieved that the USA has put ALL its efforts into defending itself for 3 or more turns (perhaps even that its forces in Europe has to be called back) else it will go down.

    Really curious how it works for you if you try it out, please post results  8-).


  • 2017

    In most games, India would require maybe 10 transports at the high end. If Japan approached a whopping 33 transports that early in the game, wouldn’t the US be the obvious target?

    Also, how do you plan to use all of Japan’s airpower without buying any carriers (at least I don’t see room in the budget for new warships)?



  • I think if it works, and the US falls, its time to call it game in the Axis favor. If it doesn’t work, it’s game over in the Allies favor.

    Honestly, the only time I see this as being ever worth it would be when Germany gets garbage luck (i.e, loses it’s subs, RN survives attacks, Paris doesn’t fall.) It would be more worth it to play it safe in any other situation.



  • @wheatbeer:

    In most games, India would require maybe 10 transports at the high end. If Japan approached a whopping 33 transports that early in the game, wouldn’t the US be the obvious target?

    Also, how do you plan to use all of Japan’s airpower without buying any carriers (at least I don’t see room in the budget for new warships)?

    About the obvious target:
    It is a gambit for a reason ;-). Either the USA buys it, or it doesnt (there are good reasons for both). Last time I played with a friend he only started to garrisson San Fransisco AFTER I took Honolulu because he indeed thought I was going for Sydney and did not expect me to go to Honolulu from NZ. But I have to admit I came in with ‘only’ 10 TRS. I think if the USA starts building defenses only after Japan shows up in strength in the Carolines/NZ/Japan, it is too late unless all its European forces are also immediately recalled, depending on how many land/air forces there are.

    About bringing the IJA to bear:
    J7 take Alaska, 1 TRS is enough for that. If need be, another 1 TRS can be used to put screens into West Canada. J8 IJA lands in Alaska after the initial invasions.
    Alternatively: J6 take NZ. J7 Take Panama, IJA lands in NZ. J8 IJA lands in Panama after the initial invasions.

    The thought is that Japan does not need its full airpower in the initial landings but will need it for the follow-up battles (apart from the 6 aircraft you can use from the three carriers you have at start). After all, the assumption is that the USA must be slightly surprised for Japan to execute this order. In case The US is prepared (and as a result, has not focussed on Germany so heavily), Japan would obviously execute another order, going for Sydney + Calcutta anyway, albeit maybe a turn later than normal.

    So it boils down to how well can Japan make it look like mainland USA is unexpected and then DO the unexpected, the USA buying it or not and where its European forces are and what they are doing.

    It is still more of a brainstorm than a real plan, I must admit I have doubts about this myself still.  But I really… really… want to punish the USA for all its 100% focus on Germany Ignoring Japan completely and being able to get away with it ;-)!

    Ah heck, maybe I should say taking Sydney + Honolulu is enough punishment for focusing too much on Germany >.<



  • Japan only exists as more than a speedbump unless it takes the DEI and holds them for a few rounds.

    The choice is when to try for it.  The longer you wait, the more resistance you face.  Japan’s game is in playing aggressive and taking risks.  You’ve got ample aircraft to trade for strategic advantage, so use that in your planning - particularly in removing Chinese units from your flanks where trading a Ftr for an Inf means you don’t have to land ground units in the North to deal with them swinging in behind you.

    I’ve always liked a J2 move to take Flip and Borneo.
    I’ve done J1 DOW and although the momentum is strongly in your favor, it tilts quickly back to even on dicey rolls and puts you into a dogfight in China.

    J3 or later DOW is going to be a simple play for Japan to march on Moscow.  Problem is that you allow India to get large and they just start the shuttling of units to the crown prize of the European win: Egypt.  Germany is generally in no position to hold off the UK and US while also making a march to a well reinforced Egypt by India.

    The lynchpin, therefore, of the entire game is cutting India out economically. This is Japan’s sole job.  Either by conquest or convoy or some combination of both.  This plays into Germany’s favor because it makes Egypt much easier to claim if India is unable to reinforce Egypt.

    So the longer you wait to cut down India, the worse off it gets for Japan - and later, Germany.  J1 or J2 is the best DOW strategy to keep India from stopping a German swing from Moscow to Africa.  And that assumes Germany is successful in Russia - which is never a guarantee for even experienced strategists.



  • @ItIsILeClerc:

    @wheatbeer:

    In most games, India would require maybe 10 transports at the high end. If Japan approached a whopping 33 transports that early in the game, wouldn’t the US be the obvious target?

    Also, how do you plan to use all of Japan’s airpower without buying any carriers (at least I don’t see room in the budget for new warships)?

    About the obvious target:
    It is a gambit for a reason ;-). Either the USA buys it, or it doesnt (there are good reasons for both). Last time I played with a friend he only started to garrisson San Fransisco AFTER I took Honolulu because he indeed thought I was going for Sydney and did not expect me to go to Honolulu from NZ. But I have to admit I came in with ‘only’ 10 TRS. I think if the USA starts building defenses only after Japan shows up in strength in the Carolines/NZ/Japan, it is too late unless all its European forces are also immediately recalled, depending on how many land/air forces there are.

    About bringing the IJA to bear:
    J7 take Alaska, 1 TRS is enough for that. If need be, another 1 TRS can be used to put screens into West Canada. J8 IJA lands in Alaska after the initial invasions.
    Alternatively: J6 take NZ. J7 Take Panama, IJA lands in NZ. J8 IJA lands in Panama after the initial invasions.

    The thought is that Japan does not need its full airpower in the initial landings but will need it for the follow-up battles (apart from the 6 aircraft you can use from the three carriers you have at start). After all, the assumption is that the USA must be slightly surprised for Japan to execute this order. In case The US is prepared (and as a result, has not focussed on Germany so heavily), Japan would obviously execute another order, going for Sydney + Calcutta anyway, albeit maybe a turn later than normal.

    So it boils down to how well can Japan make it look like mainland USA is unexpected and then DO the unexpected, the USA buying it or not and where its European forces are and what they are doing.

    It is still more of a brainstorm than a real plan, I must admit I have doubts about this myself still. � But I really… really… want to punish the USA for all its 100% focus on Germany Ignoring Japan completely and being able to get away with it ;-)!

    Ah heck, maybe I should say taking Sydney + Honolulu is enough punishment for focusing too much on Germany >.<

    This whole scenario seems very situational for a very specific opponent.


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 5
  • 3
  • 21
  • 16
  • 21
  • 5
  • 7
  • 8
I Will Never Grow Up Games

37
Online

13.4k
Users

33.8k
Topics

1.3m
Posts