Poll: Favorite turn 1 Russian Attack


  • Vote on your favorite Russian attack for turn 1! I’m fond of the Ukraine one personally since you can throw from 6-8 infantry depending on your tastes, making it hard for Germany to kill your tanks without risking their own, but against some weaker players I’ll hit Eastern Europe hoping the distraction will work. Of course, my build is still 8 infantry and I still don’t hit Manchuria (and do kill the Baltic fleet).

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I prefer:

    Sub + 2 fighters against baltic

    Non-com:

    Tranny to UK or Canada
    (Sub retreat to UK if survives)
    All Moscow to Karelia
    All eastern forces to Yakut (7 inf, 1 arm)

    I can take Finland later, if Britian doesn’t, and once Britain and USA do D-Day I can invade Europe’s east coast to reduce German forces and add financial strain, until then, I’m building walls of troops.


  • I was asking about land attacks. As for sea combat I prefer to use the sub to hit the one near France, not the baltic, and move the transport to Canada’s sz. To kill the Baltic fleet I usually find one fighter is enough and the other is used in other attacks. So basically your point is you don’t do any of the 3 major land attacks?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    How do you avoid the sub submerging?


  • I attack the ukraine AND Eastern europe on the same turn.


  • I attack the ukraine AND Eastern europe on the same turn.

    Not a good idea! You have to get very lucky in order to actually take both, and you’d better not hope you get any unfriendly dice.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Personally, I don’t do land attacks with russian on R1. On R2 I might, depending on the situation.


  • Well its also not a good idea to do nothing, as it gives the German too much armor early. If that happened I probably wouldn’t buy any armor as I already have plenty.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    But I don’t think sacrificing my 3 armor units to take out 1 of their armor units is a good trade. Ok, so you’ll get one of their fighters as well, making it that much harder to destroy the UK fleet. I mean, both solutions are equally as bad: save your armor for a rainey day and maybe loose them on defense, or possibly reduce the luftwaffe and one of Rommel’s panzers at the loss of 3 infantry and 3 armor units.


  • @Jennifer:

    How do you avoid the sub submerging?

    Subs don’t submerge in A&A, unless you’re thinking of a different edition. I’m thinking of standard A&A 2nd edition.


  • But I don’t think sacrificing my 3 armor units to take out 1 of their armor units is a good trade. Ok, so you’ll get one of their fighters as well, making it that much harder to destroy the UK fleet.

    Well it depends on the bid, in an all Europe bid I would say don’t risk your armor, but that doesn’t mean you can’t strafe either FinNor/EEuro. With an africa bid it doesn’t really hurt the Russians to lose 2arm does it. I don’t know why you think Russia couldn’t strafe Ukr with 7inf 2arm, and if they take fine, and if they take it will still hurt Germany.


  • I like to hit EEU. FIN is that useless vestigial limb of Germany’s, and UKR forces are forced to fall back in order to retake EEU (generally - depending on the moxie of your German opponant).

    I almost always play RR, however. I’m sure if i played non-RR with an appropriate bid, i would likely just curl up in a little ball and cry.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Just a thought here, but if you leave Cauc undefended because you used all the infantry there to take Ukr, what’s to stop the Jerries from moving forces (that would normally get killed eventually anyway) from Afr. to Cauc for the free land, and maybe a defensive hit?

    With that they MIGHT be able to take Karelia, retake Ukr (which may or may not be suitably defended pending die roll outcomes) and Cauc giving them a nice +6 IPC income and reducing the red army to tatters?

    That’s why I’m a proponent of forming a defense first, then attacking after the UK and US get up to speed.


  • With that they MIGHT be able to take Karelia, retake Ukr (which may or may not be suitably defended pending die roll outcomes) and Cauc giving them a nice +6 IPC income and reducing the red army to tatters?

    Okay but what can they put in Cauc 1-2inf. That isn’t so hard for the Russians to deal with, even if the Germans counterattack Ukr hard. However, if I strafe Ukr with 7inf 2arm there is a very good likelyhood I will be able to pull off with as much as 2inf 2arm, and giving the Russians a total of 15inf 3arm in Karelia. Now on turn2 should Germany manage somehow to acutally make it hard for Russia to hold Karelia ie tank heavy purchase, then I will pull out to Cauc and Moscow, build a lot of tanks of my own and let the Germans walk into Karelia and get themselves killed. Either way I can handle it.

    That’s why I’m a proponent of forming a defense first, then attacking after the UK and US get up to speed.

    Yes defense first, but this shouldn’t mean you blindly build infantry just because the few extra units could/would make such a difference in the first 3 turns. Plus once the Anglo-Americans do get up to speed you need to be able to take advantage, and playing defense only doesn’t cut it.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    if you use 2 armored in the Ukr attack, how do you end up with 17 inf and 3 armored in Karelia?

    Any forces that attack a space (except naval and air units) must remain there at the end of the battle.

    At best you could have 8 infantry + left overs and 2 fighters in Karelia, about an adequete defense if Germany goes all out against it instead of the fleet with 4 armor, 3 inf, 4 fighters, 1 bomber.


  • Karelia can have, if everything is put in there after his idea of a Ukr attack (7 inf 2 arm), the extra armor, 2 fighters, the 4 infantry from Russia and 8 more built, plus the extra infantry. Total 13 infantry, 1 armor, 2 fighters. Not as many as he claimed, but more than you did. The question is whether putting EVERYTHING there is a good idea.

    Also, if I remember correctly, EE starts with 3 infantry and Finland-Norway starts with 2 or 3 (I think it was 3). You can actually put 6 infantry (or 5 if I’m wrong) into the attack on Karelia in other words if Ukraine is attacked (this is also true if Finland-Norway is attacked instead, but you can use more armor then since both of the Ukr ones survived), not 3, and 2 more if your baltic transport survived the Russian turn. I’m not saying this is a good idea, but it is a possibility. I still doubt you can claim Karelia though without luck playing a factor. But that’s what A&A is about sometimes… taking a risk with uncertain odds for a big prize - or complete and utter ruin. Maybe the attacking retreat option is a Godsend after all?


  • Ahh no it should have around 14-15inf 3arm. In the Ukr battle the Russians should only lose around 5guys. Add in 4inf f/Russia, 1inf-Cauc plus an 8inf build or even perphaps a 6inf arm build and Russia can have 15inf 3arm. Remember the idea is to strafe not take, and if you do take its probably because you got too lucky in which case I’d slide in another tank and inf to help defend the Ukr, say 5-6inf 3arm. Germany really can’t attack that, and I’ll be happy if they do.

    Also if I have 15inf 3arm or even a few less I would gladly welcome a 6inf 5arm 5ftr bmb attack on Karelia. Yes it might succeed, but at a very heavy price, and Britain will easily retake. Often if I can I will land a ftr elsewhere so Karelia only has 15inf 3arm ftr defending. It doesn’t hurt the defense much, and it takes away the caveat for Germany of destroying the entire Russian airforce if successful. Like I said Germany will limp away with a very small airforce, very few armor, and more importantly will have a very hard time resisting the Allied pressure coming from the West.


  • I think you forgot something Smith…

    if Russian infantry attack Ukr and take it but lose 5 infantry the 2 remaining infantry have to stay in Ukr. They can’t return to Karelia until next turn!


  • Not if they pull off leaving a ftr. As long as there is one unit defending I can retreat. Whats more 1ftr doesn’t help Germany out too much.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    In that case you’re running the risk that you dont accidentally kill that last fighter.


  • In that case you’re running the risk that you dont accidentally kill that last fighter.

    And I have no problem with that. 😄 As they say a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and I’d rather have russian armor than kill 1-2German ftrs. Even in games where the Germans get lucky and have all six planes after G1 it doesn’t help them as much as you might think.


  • @Jennifer:

    Just a thought here, but if you leave Cauc undefended because you used all the infantry there to take Ukr, what’s to stop the Jerries from moving forces (that would normally get killed eventually anyway) from Afr. to Cauc for the free land, and maybe a defensive hit?

    With that they MIGHT be able to take Karelia, retake Ukr (which may or may not be suitably defended pending die roll outcomes) and Cauc giving them a nice +6 IPC income and reducing the red army to tatters?

    That’s why I’m a proponent of forming a defense first, then attacking after the UK and US get up to speed.

    another good reason to take EEU. Mind you, it’s nothing to leave a couple of inf behind. Also if you have aggressive allies, then the UK and US will both have a shot at taking FIN in between (depending on the success of the German luftwaffe).


  • another good reason to take EEU. Mind you, it’s nothing to leave a couple of inf behind. Also if you have aggressive allies, then the UK and US will both have a shot at taking FIN in between (depending on the success of the German luftwaffe).

    Its never a good idea to sack russian armor in EEuro on R1 regardless of the bid. The offensive power costs to much to replace, and against a PE bid this could be a killer. As I’ve said taking out 1German ftr on R1 is not that important of an objective.


  • Depending on the bid of course, but interesting is

    sub vs sub in AZO
    2 ftr vs trn, sub in BAL
    8/3 vs Ukr

    and maybe 5/1 vs Man (only w/1 inf Kwa bid or less)
    ncm the trn to NOR and Germany has a tough task.


  • @AgentSmith:

    another good reason to take EEU. Mind you, it’s nothing to leave a couple of inf behind. Also if you have aggressive allies, then the UK and US will both have a shot at taking FIN in between (depending on the success of the German luftwaffe).

    Its never a good idea to sack russian armor in EEuro on R1 regardless of the bid. The offensive power costs to much to replace, and against a PE bid this could be a killer. As I’ve said taking out 1German ftr on R1 is not that important of an objective.

    fair enough. Let’s say you pull the armor back, and toss fighters in? Or one arm, one ftr?
    Also it’s not just the german ftr but also it’s armor(s). Plus stalling it for 2 turns (by forcing it to pull back instead of allowing it to build up).

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