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Japanese Victory Condition



  • I just completed my first ‘complete’ game of A&A Global. (We called it since Rome had fallen and the US was in Paris.)
    I was the Japanese player and I ended with the highest national production, 5 victory cities, and ALL of China conquered.
    On top of that both the US & British player declared war on the Japanese.

    From a historical perspective that seems as a Japanese win. I was only in Honolulu on the last turn just trying to nab victory cities. Japan had secured a huge economic & national resource base in China, and had control of the Pacific from New Guinea to Hawaii to Malaysia.

    I’m wondering why China as a whole isn’t considered a Victory ‘city’. Taking all of China should definitely outweigh Manilla, Honolulu, or Sydney. I think this should’ve been incorporated into the victory conditions somehow.

    Also I conquered China when that player had $2. Does Japan get that money (no capital is taken).


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    You never take China’s money, as they have no Capital.
    It  keeps it banked  until it can spend it again.



  • Why did you end the game when Japan was in such a good condition and in control of 5 VCs?

    The Axis can still win the game in the Pacific even though Europe is lost.



  • @wittmann:

    You never take China’s money, as they have no Capital.
    It  keeps it banked  until it can spend it again.

    See this is the problem. China is never dead & never considered towards victory. They had no territory. National output was zero. Japan should get any money they have left. China should be considered as a victory condition because the war with China stretched all the way back to the late 1920’s. A conquered China would be a victory in Japanese eyes.

    The US & Britain would need 3-5 more years of war to conquer the Japanese & doubt either would have the heart for it considering Pearl Harbor hadn’t happened and Britain was essentially broke by 1945. Doubt the US/UK would fight it out in 1946-50.

    The whole Japanese strategy was to build an empire quickly enough to make a prolonged war with the US so costly that peace would be negotiated. Without Pearl Harbor as a rallying cry I doubt the US would’ve cared so deeply.

    I understand it’s a game, but it is historical. I don’t think conquering China was properly addressed.
    Just looking for counterpoints.

    We ended the game because I wasn’t in Sydney & didn’t have the force to take it. Honolulu would fall the next turn or my fleet would be decimated. The US could now out pace me & India was starting a slow march east. As I stated above in years the game(war) would have easily taken 3-5 more turns(years).


  • 2018 2017 2016

    Japan should get some sort of symbolic NO bonus for occupying all of China (akin to Italy’s Roman Empire NO), but I can’t imagine adding any more victory cities. If anything it can match China’s Burma Road bonus.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    China already has 2 victory cities in it.  You want MORE representation?



  • @Gargantua:

    China already has 2 victory cities in it.  You want MORE representation?

    I think there should be some sort of bonus or NO to represent a complete conquering of China.
    A few islands are worth 5 IPCs. Honolulu, SF, and a few others are worth 5.
    The entirety of China & you don’t even get their money.



  • It’s already worth 12 ipcs, and it’s pretty easy to take. I think it’s plenty valuable.



  • @ChocolatePancake:

    It’s already worth 12 ipcs, and it’s pretty easy to take. I think it’s plenty valuable.

    arguable, against a good allies player.


  • Customizer

    @bionicjoe:

    I think there should be some sort of bonus or NO to represent a complete conquering of China.
    A few islands are worth 5 IPCs. Honolulu, SF, and a few others are worth 5.
    The entirety of China & you don’t even get their money.

    I agree with you. I have often thought of adding a house rule NO for Japan: $5 per turn when ALL Chinese territories are under Axis control.
    Notice I say “Axis” control so if Germany rolls over Moscow and kills all the Russians before Japan can kill all the Chinese, they might blitz through and take some of the western most Chinese territories, but Japan will still get the NO.
    I’ve even tinkered with the idea of giving Japan a one-time NO, $5 or $10 (not sure), when they destroy that pesky Flying Tigers fighter. Although I have seen some games where Japan sent a whole fleet of planes over the bulk of the Chinese infantry just to hit that fighter. Since fighters defend @4, they almost always lose at least one of their own planes. If the fighter also has an infantry stack with it, it could be even more planes lost for Japan. So it hardly seems worth it for Japan to risk losing 2 or 3 planes for a $5 or even $10 NO. It may end up being more beneficial to the Allies.
    As for the Chinese money left over when all Chinese territories are captured, I also agree that Japan should get that once the last Chinese territory is captured. At least that would put China in the same position as other countries that lose their capital.
    Currently, if the last territory is taken by the Axis, then an Ally liberates a Chinese territory, on China’s next turn they can immediately buy troops and place them there (assuming they have $3 or more). If any other country’s capital is taken, then liberated by an Ally, they have to wait to collect money the first turn and buy units the next turn, assuming the Axis doesn’t re-capture the capital thus plundering the treasury again. I’ve seen that happen with France.
    Then again, since so many of China’s territories are only 1 IPC, China would have to wait 3 turns before they could even purchase a single infantry. And if the Axis retakes it, they hand over that meager $1 back to Japan and have to start all over again. So perhaps it is better to let China bank that money and hope for liberation.
    Japan should still get $5 per turn for a conquered China.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    Agreed. That NO could even replace the Strategic outer defensive perimeter(Guam, Midway etc.).
    Conquering China is difficult and much effort is required; this would be the reward.


  • Customizer

    @wittmann:

    Agreed. That NO could even replace the Strategic outer defensive perimeter(Guam, Midway etc.).
    Conquering China is difficult and much effort is required; this would be the reward.

    Yeah, and it is at least possible too. That 5 island NO is next to impossible. I have had games where Japan won on the Pacific board and still didn’t get that NO. The only time I have gotten it was when the Allies spent most of their resources in Europe and Japan was allowed to go hog wild.


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