Forrest's greatest victory fought today in 1864


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    On the 10th June 1864 Major General N B Forrest won his greatest victory, defeating the Union’s Brig General Sturgis, at a place of his choosing: Brice’s Crossroads, Mississippi.
    Though he possessed only four small Brigades of Cavalry and he knew Sturgis had Cavalry and Infantry in his South marching force, Forrest knew from locals that the Union force was tired and strung out, the Cavalry too far ahead of the Infantry. Numbers never mattered to Forrest.
    He planned his attack for Brice’s Crossroads because he knew there was only one small bridge crossing the creek to its rear. He planned to push the Cavalry onto the Infantry, knowing they would have problems retreating. The Union force was far from its supply base and Forrest’s men were close to theirs. His men believed in Forrest’s abilities and had the morale edge.
    The terrain and narrow roads were muddy and made the Union’s problems harder.
    All went to plan: his Cavalry pushed the Union Cavalry on to the Infantry and it was a mad rush, soon rout, to the one crossing.
    Forrest’s casualties were 493. Sturgis’ were either 2240 or 2612, 1500 of them taken prisoner as they were too exhausted to run. He was even able to capture 16 guns, 6 of them Rifled pieces, 5000 small arms and 500000 rounds of ammunition, as well as 250 wagons and ambulances.
    Forrest’s fearsome reputation continued. Sherman commanding in the West, now Grant was in the East fighting Lee, feared nobody could stop this man wreaking havoc in his rear.



  • Forrest was a nature fighter, the South should have given this man more resources.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    Hi Worsham.
    Both Davis and Lee said the same thing after the war
    Being the snobby self made aristos they were(not Lee of course), those in power could not imagine a low born man like Forrest could be good for anything. Their loss.
    He got the job done and when those high up took away his command or supplies, he went out and took them from the enemy.
    A great man, forged for war.



  • I delight in the reb’s stupidity in not giving the man more stuff lol. Though how he would have done as a major theater tactician remains to be seen.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    DarthShizNit, I do not doubt Forrest would have risen to the challenge of Army command.
    I think he would have known and understood he needed professional staff to run his supply and logistics, having spent the war disrupting Northern plans of conquest. I think he would not have been as foolish as Hood to march North, leaving an army to ravage his country. He was impetuous, but he was a Cavalryman who understood how to beat his foe. He attacked and he kept the momentum( he called it the skeer) going. His enemy never had the chance to know what hit them or how to react.
    He would have had to contend with subordinates who thought they were better qualified and they may have purposely misunderstood orders or tried to sabotage his plans, but the common man in the ranks knew he was a winner and could get results.
    Like Grant, whose skills were recognised by Lincoln, Forrest would have got the results.
    Atlanta was the key that won the 64 election and if in command in early 64, I do not think Forrest would have given Sherman the key.
    But was all lost after Bragg’s fine army lost Missionary Ridge?
    If you can laugh at the South’s stupidity at not recognising Forrest, what do you think of Jeff Davis’ retaining his friend Bragg?
    Forrest could have bought the South time and time is all it needed to bring independence.



  • Yes I laugh at a lot of the decisions the rebs made, almost as much as I cry at some the north made  :roll:. But even if given command in 64, not sure Forrest would have prevented the eventual fall of the deep south to Sherman’s armies, as I consider Sherman the superior general, who above all had the resources to throw at the south. But if had been Forrest opposing Sherman in Sherman’s March, I think it would wind up being one of the most nail bitting and interesting military campaigns to read about ever  :-D.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    Agreed.
    The South just needed someone in the West who was the equal of  Sherman, then it would have been a much closer run thing.
    To think Sherman could have been lost to the Union. Was Grant who saved him and gave him the confidence and belief he almost lost permanently. It is hard not to see how the two men, different in so many ways, complimented each others inadequacies.

    I always loved Cleburne and his Division’s fighting prowess, in attack as well as in defence.
    His unnecessary death at Franklin was a great loss to the Army of Tennessee.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @wittmann:

    To think Sherman could have been lost to the Union. Was Grant who saved him and gave him the confidence and belief he almost lost permanently. It is hard not to see how the two men, different in so many ways, complimented each others inadequacies.

    “Grant stood by me when I was crazy, and I stood by him when he was drunk, and now we stand by each other.”
    – William Tecumseh Sherman



  • Kirby Smith was another very capable Confederate General who could have countered Sherman. He however got isolate west of the Mississippi.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    I have never read about the TM, but I realise it is your interest Worsham.
    I know he must have been a great administrator and that he had good tactical subordinates, who knew how to win important battles. Taylor at Mansfield comes to mind.
    EK Smith was promoted very quickly from Brigadier at 1st Bull Run, after his serious wounding there.
    Bragg and he needed to coordinate in Kentucky in Autumn of 62. They handed the Union the initiative back after a lightning beginning to that campaign.
    Many forget that this Western invasion of the North game closer to success than Lee’s in the East.



  • I read Lincoln’s thoughts on Kentucky joining the South he had serious concerns. Even saying that if Kentucky fell he would feel obligated to discuss splitting the nation.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    Evening Worsham. I know Lincoln did his upmost not to antagonise the Border States, realising their importance to the Union and his political survival.
    I did not know he thought  that to lose Kentucky was tantamount to defeat.
    I think Kentucky was split 60-40 in favour of the North.
    It was the militarily inept ex Bishop of Louisiana, Major General Leonidas Polk who gifted the state to the Union, when he entered the Neutral Kentucky in 61.



  • @ABWorsham:

    I read Lincoln’s thoughts on Kentucky joining the South he had serious concerns. Even saying that if Kentucky fell he would feel obligated to discuss splitting the nation.

    “I hope to have God on my side, but I must have Kentucky” is a popular quote around here.  But like Wittman said, the majority was pro-Union.



  • @Jermofoot:

    @ABWorsham:

    I read Lincoln’s thoughts on Kentucky joining the South he had serious concerns. Even saying that if Kentucky fell he would feel obligated to discuss splitting the nation.

    “I hope to have God on my side, but I must have Kentucky” is a popular quote around here.  But like Wittman said, the majority was pro-Union.

    Jermo, where in Kentucky do you live?



  • @ABWorsham:

    @Jermofoot:

    @ABWorsham:

    I read Lincoln’s thoughts on Kentucky joining the South he had serious concerns. Even saying that if Kentucky fell he would feel obligated to discuss splitting the nation.

    “I hope to have God on my side, but I must have Kentucky” is a popular quote around here.�  But like Wittman said, the majority was pro-Union.

    Jermo, where in Kentucky do you live?

    I live in Lexington, where the University of Kentucky is.  Been here since we moved here from Texas in '89.



  • @Jermofoot:

    @ABWorsham:

    @Jermofoot:

    @ABWorsham:

    I read Lincoln’s thoughts on Kentucky joining the South he had serious concerns. Even saying that if Kentucky fell he would feel obligated to discuss splitting the nation.

    “I hope to have God on my side, but I must have Kentucky” is a popular quote around here.�  But like Wittman said, the majority was pro-Union.

    Jermo, where in Kentucky do you live?

    I live in Lexington, where the University of Kentucky is.  Been here since we moved here from Texas in '89.

    I’m in Madisonville Ky visiting my sister.



  • @ABWorsham:

    @Jermofoot:

    @ABWorsham:

    @Jermofoot:

    @ABWorsham:

    I read Lincoln’s thoughts on Kentucky joining the South he had serious concerns. Even saying that if Kentucky fell he would feel obligated to discuss splitting the nation.

    “I hope to have God on my side, but I must have Kentucky” is a popular quote around here.��  But like Wittman said, the majority was pro-Union.

    Jermo, where in Kentucky do you live?

    I live in Lexington, where the University of Kentucky is.�  Been here since we moved here from Texas in '89.

    I’m in Madisonville Ky visiting my sister.

    Nice!  Well in the future we may have to make arrangements for a meet up.  Not a terribly far drive, but enough to need some planning.



  • Sounds like a plan.



  • @Cromwell_Dude:

    @DarthShizNit:

    Yes I laugh at a lot of the decisions the rebs made, almost as much as I cry at some the north made�  :roll:. But even if given command in 64, not sure Forrest would have prevented the eventual fall of the deep south to Sherman’s armies, as I consider Sherman the superior general, who above all had the resources to throw at the south. But if had been Forrest opposing Sherman in Sherman’s March, I think it would wind up being one of the most nail bitting and interesting military campaigns to read about ever�  :-D.

    Sherman the superior general? I must disagree.

    Feel free. Though I must say, that a man holding the Confederate battle flag in front of the Lincoln Memorial would disagree with me about something Civil War related is truly shocking  😉


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