@JamesAleman:
@Kreuzfeld:
@JamesAleman:
@Kreuzfeld:
I am more or less 100% sure you are not even getting to bryansk, and you are never holding it. against a pure bomber strat like this, I am building artillery.
You Dow russia on G2, killing 0 units,
My russian beginning army is ; 27 I, 3Art, 2 mech, 2 tank, 2 ftr, 1 Tac.
R1 build; 3 I and 7 A
After R1 it is ; 30 I, 10 Art, 2 mech, 2 tank, 2 ftr, 1 tac. you will not kill anything when you declare, because I wont let you hit anything
after R2 I will have 33 I, 17 A, 2 mech, 2 tank, 2 ftr, I already have a bigger land army than you are planning on having after G5
at the end of R4, I should have at least 40 I, 25 A, 2 tank, 2 ftr, 1 tac and 4 AAs in bryansk. I can also have the british using their ftrs to prevent you from stratting moscow.
what is worse is that your bombers will never help you on defence. If the german army of 44 units stands in belo and I can hit with 70+ units, it really does not matter what your units are.
you are never taking bryansk then with your 44 landunits + 16 planes.
Since you didn’t read my above post, I can get 81 units to Bryansk…yes My bombers defend at 1’s, along with my fighter and tacticals…You see, Italy takes first to provide the landing site, they can move 16 pieces in, along with 22 German air units…now do you see a possible merit to this…Will it work perfectly every game, probably not, but I bet I get your factories and get to produce out of them mid game.
The bombers for the first half of the game shave turns off of the game, then mid game you produce more fodder for them.
Follow my first forum game of this strategy. Remember my opponent knows my strategy and I am still comfortable.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=31303.0
how are you taking bryansk, I got 75 units there, + 4 AAs, at the minimum about 80., your force is 16 italian units and 65 germans. the 65 germans will NOT be able to kill my 80 unit stack.
The point is this: If you have 80 units, yes Germany will not attack you, they will produce out of your empty factories 6 units, bomb you for 20 damage, subtract 3-6 IPCs from the East that Japan has gobbled up, and fall back from Bryansk to Ukraine since about 10 slow moving units follow your lead force (Bulgaria, Yugoslavian survivors from turn 1). Even if you collected 37 and you only repaired 16 damage, you have 21 dollars to spend on 6 pieces….I place 6 mech and 2-3 bombers…thats 9 units maybe now you see this. Also, suppose and just suppose that Moscow is not the real target. What prevents the bomber mass from redeploying and dropping 1 transport to West Germany and taking London instead of Moscow now? Toss in Egypt or Volgograd (later turns) for the 8 cities.
I will ofcourse have my russian fighters in msocow, and possibly build 1 more there if I can afford it. I will also add as many british fighters as needed to prevent you from bombiing. If I have 6 fighters in moscow, you are not bombing me without fightercover.
if you are bombing me for 20, I will ofcourse wait until I have 50 IPC in my hand before I build, making sure I completely use my 10 spaces. which means you can only on average kill 10 IPC for bombing / turn.
@JamesAleman:
This multi threat approach is why we believe Germany has time to sit back and wait for opportunities once they get the bomber boost of speed that enables the factory captures.
??? you playing with tech???
@JamesAleman:
Now suppose you try to guard the factories like in my first public test game, what prevents me from Moving on and taking Moscow first, then the factories later?
noone is stupid enough to guard the factories in such a scenario. if you only play against people that are that stupid, then any strategy will work.
@JamesAleman:
see our current public test game: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=31303.0 Currently in Round 2, USA’s turn. (Sorry Allweneedislove, I am not saying this stuff will happen or implying that all is lost for you :roll: but I am postulating, and using our game as an illustration of just 1 allied strategy as it is the only game available in which I or my disciple :-D (sorry Andy) have not played in our biased play tests.
Russia has posted its second turn. Note they have more IPCs in the east, but have kept their 18 units there. (these were the units that liberate Russia in my play tests and convinced me to not capture moscow without the 3 turn pause to build 18-27 units.
Turn 3, Germany will enter Western Ukraine (Ialian owned and garrisoned with 2 tanks to provide a landing field for German air), moving second slow mover force (6armor,4mech-Yugo, 8inf,2art-Romania) to EPL to prevent the Novgorod units from shifting south, turn 4 they will enter Bryansk, at this point, I am either attacking 25inf, 6art, 6mech, and 2 armor, 2 ftrs, tac, 2 aaguns in Bryansk (44 pieces) with 17 infantry, 3 artillery, 9 armor, 4 mech, 5 fighters, 4 tacticals and 11-12 bombers (53-54 pieces depending on if I lose a bomber strafing Baltic States turn 3), or I am moving the tank into Italian owned Bryansk, then sending that force into Ukraine which could have 3 more Russian units, hitting for 1 or 2 rounds and retreating to Bryansk, (since the tank moved from there). Just wait 2 more turns. In this game I will have the option of Moscow before factories. I have not decided as it’s only half way through round 2 for Pete’s sake.
to guard novogorod is a tricky operation, mainly because you have to leave novogorod early enough to be able to shift south. This is why I use my mechs and tanks to guard novo from an amphibious, so that I can get them to bryansk in one move.
to have ANY units in baltic states is usually a mistake that qualifies you to the madhouse.
Depending on how you set up the italians I can guard w ukraine with 0 or 4 units (assuming 2 tanks and 1 bomber can reach). That can mean a 4 unit sacrifice to stop you for one entire round, and also keep you out of range from bombing moscow for one extra round.
assuming I don’t do this, your math for what you can have by the end of G3 is wrong, I said what I will get there after I evacuate novogorod, I should have 25 I, 10 Art, 2 mech, 2 tank, 2 ftr, 1 tac standing ready in bryansk, and by R3 I have 28 I, 17 A, 2 mech, 2 tank, 2 ftr, 1 tac +4 AA = 55 units, standing there. If you want to attack that with 53 units, then be my guest.
If I am retreating before your army, you will be unable to actually occupy bryansk, because then I will get my full round 3 reinforcements and the 5 infs from karelia and vyborg. my force for counterattacking in bryansk will be 28 I, 17 A, 2 mech, 2 tank, 2 ftr, 1 tac plus my R3 = 7 A 3 I (collect 32 + 5 for NO in R2), and the 5 final infs, which means I can attack bryansk with 36 I, 24 A, 2 mech, 2 tanks 2 ftrs and 1 tac = 67 units. your stack will be your w ukraine stack which will be 53 units + 2 italian tanks.
If you are not able to threathen me away from bryansk, then russia will continue to produce good for a long time.
Since you will If you cant go into bryansk then, I am reoccupying it, and have now started to invade with britain and usa, and probably have some british fighters on the way to moscow to defend against bombers. since none of your bombers can reach france, you should be in deep trouble there and can’t really afford to build that much more for my area.
@JamesAleman:
Now do you see the fluidity and options a mostly bomber build presents?
(Again, with all do respect Allweneedislove, I in no way am critiquing your excellent play thus far. I am illustrating that the bombers make this game closer than conventional thinking would imply.)
Please note, I have decided to stay focused and not have Italy stab at Baltic states, open for a 3 tank 8 bomber assault on the 6inf,2art,2ftr,tac,aagun there). I am better off using the bombers to defend W. Ukraine. I believe since he has 11-18 percent chance on winning in my earlier calculations and losing the bombers is not a good first showing of this strategy.
Also note: in this game, my forewarned opponent is attempting to prevent me from using his factories as I have outlined in all my posts, we shall see how I flex the strategy mid game to counter. (likely a few mech built out of Berlin to secure the by passed factories. (See history books about Blitzkrieg tactics of bypassing, encircling and accepting surrender of defending forces).
Now, I am a HUGE fan of building planes with germany, however it is not bombers I build, and I build 18 mechs in G2, and possibly 8 mechs in G1, this is because you will simply not have enough boots on the east front without these units.
Also I prefer a more fighterheavy version of it, however bombers might be the way to go in some cases. My luftwaffe is usually counting 20 planes by turn 5.