Are bombers broken? : Axis bombers lead to allied dismay.



  • @Gargantua:

    Hmm…

    I find this thread particularly interesting - in regards to bombers.

    We had this same discussion 5 years ago.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=13763.0;

    Thanks, good info on bombing and supplementing forces; but I don’t see a reference to German bomber builds as a main unit or strategy.



  • Why go straight to 15ipc before trying 13 or 14 first?



  • @Uncrustable:

    Why go straight to 15ipc before trying 13 or 14 first?

    Because it used to be 15 before I guess. I agree that if it comes to that, it should be adjusted to 13 or 14 first and not jump the gun.



  • ive used to play revised alot, and still do occasionally on GTO, bombers are almost never purchased at 15 IPC, way overpriced
    maybe 12 is too cheap, maybe not and AA guns just need some adjustment,

    i personally like bombers at 12, they are purchased in almost every game, but so are fighters and, in G40, tac bombers
    lets not get hasty and talk about nerfing bombers into nonexistence

    giving bombers +2 to dice in SBR is necessary to give reason to buy and use strat bombers over tac bombers, and it wouldnt make sense if tac bombers did the same average damage to facilities as strat bombers…
    maybe only give +1 to strat bombers and a -1 to tac bombers (with 1 being the low cap, that is if you roll a 1 you do 1 damage with tac bomber)



  • @Uncrustable:

    ive used to play revised alot, and still do occasionally on GTO, bombers are almost never purchased at 15 IPC, way overpriced
    maybe 12 is too cheap, maybe not and AA guns just need some adjustment,

    i personally like bombers at 12, they are purchased in almost every game, but so are fighters and, in G40, tac bombers
    lets not get hasty and talk about nerfing bombers into nonexistence

    giving bombers +2 to dice in SBR is necessary to give reason to buy and use strat bombers over tac bombers, and it wouldnt make sense if tac bombers did the same average damage to facilities as strat bombers…
    maybe only give +1 to strat bombers and a -1 to tac bombers (with 1 being the low cap, that is if you roll a 1 you do 1 damage with tac bomber)

    Its too early to talk about changes, first, lets play 12 or more games with this strategy, if the axis fail to lose, then consider changes such as IPC cost of bombers. Until then please be patient. I currently am playing 3 games, and I can maintain 3 games for a while by July I hope to have 6 or more games complete, with this first exhibition game being poorly managed to show the potential of Germany just by itself.

    First test game:
    Currently, I am matching USA with Germany in IPCs, however, the rest of the world is contributing towards the allies. Therefor, continued bomber builds are not likely during the end game, as I need to force the issue within the next 5 turns using fighters and ground troops…if I can’t, we’ll see if Japan needs to contribute on their side. Italy is at 24, while being convoyed for up to 10, if that is lifted and they get the +5 NO for no surface warships they will make a strong difference at 29 IPCs. I may get a chance to do a neutral crush (to drive them back into Egypt) as well if time permits. Even with a poorly played Japan and Italy, this is a very close game. Axis float at 7 cities out of 11 on the Europe side. Japan is weak, but not out if they return to home waters and redeploy that should take a minimum of 4 turns to become a threat. We’ll see if the allies remove them permanently.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=31303.new#new


  • 2017 '16 '13 '12

    In this game James is referencing, I feel a well planned J1 would have done more damage. The Axis don’t stand a chance to take Egypt in the game and are greatly overpowered economically.



  • @Omega1759:

    In this game James is referencing, I feel a well planned J1 would have done more damage. The Axis don’t stand a chance to take Egypt in the game and are greatly overpowered economically.

    I didn’t want a strong Japan to win this game early, that wouldn’t prove the over powered nature of the air strategy. If Berlin can win while being “outproduced” on the Europe board by itself, it proves that the air campaign is broken. Berlin only has to outproduce Anzac and India to take Egypt, their remaining money is available to take London. Wait and see, in 4-7 turns we’ll know the answer. The allies are not in danger of winning on the Europe board, so Germany has time. They are 1 city away, if London or Egypt falls, that’s the game. Stay tuned. I am demonstrating that Economics are irrelevant unless you outproduce them 2 units to their 1 to have sufficient garrisons to defend both cities. They do not, at this time, have that much of a lead on Germany Economically.


  • 2017 '16 '13 '12

    I can’t see London fall either with a solid UK income and the volume of US navy around, but I’m still watching!  😄


  • 2017 '16

    @Uncrustable:

    ive used to play revised alot, and still do occasionally on GTO, bombers are almost never purchased at 15 IPC, way overpriced
    maybe 12 is too cheap, maybe not and AA guns just need some adjustment, I Agree.
    i personally like bombers at 12, they are purchased in almost every game, but so are fighters and, in G40, tac bombers
    lets not get hasty and talk about nerfing bombers into nonexistence. I Agree.

    giving bombers +2 to dice in SBR is necessary to give reason to buy and use strat bombers over tac bombers, and it wouldnt make sense if tac bombers did the same average damage to facilities as strat bombers… I Agree.
    maybe only give +1 to strat bombers and a -1 to tac bombers (with 1 being the low cap, that is if you roll a 1 you do 1 damage with tac bomber)

    If Bombers need to be fix, I don’t think the main problem is in SBR. Because no matter the number, in each turn of SBR, every Bmbs is at risk 1/6 to be destroy by an AA.
    I don’t see why this specific aspect has a problem. The AA is at his strongest on the board.
    It is more about the escort and interception rules.
    And much more serious problem about projection of power in regular combat.
    How AAA and Inf or AAA + fighters+ Inf can be a good defensive counter-measure?



  • Just started reading this thread from the beginning.  Interesting idea, and it sounds plausible.  I’ve often thought strategic bombers should be reduced to an attack value of 1 in naval battles, for the sake of realism and historical accuracy mostly.  But, after reading this, something like that might be necessary just to keep bombers from completely taking over the game.

    I guess my problem is that focus too much on what would be historically realistic, which is probably why I frequently lose to strategies that involve something weird.  Building nothing but one type of unit would be included in my definition of “weird.”  Personally, I’m fond of gearing limits, similar to what you see in World in Flames, if anyone has ever played that.  Basically, you’d have to keep track of what you built on the previous turn, and could only build two more of a given type of unit than you did last turn.  I’d probably simplify it to three categories:  air units, land units, and naval units.  So, if you built two ships last turn, you could build four this turn, and six the next turn.  If you built no planes last turn, you could build two this turn.  So you couldn’t build all ships one turn, and then immediately reconfigure your production system to build all infantry the next.  But that’s probably way too much bookkeeping for a beer and pretzels game like A&A.

    Also, I want to experiment with factory output.  Instead of a specific number of units, maybe make minor ICs produce units whose cost equals 6 times the printed value of the territory in which they are located.  Major ICs would produce 10 times the value.  Okay, I’ll stop going off-topic now.  I can’t help it.  It’s a medical condition.  😄



  • @almashir:

    Okay, I’ll stop going off-topic now.  I can’t help it.  It’s a medical condition.   😄

    Damn, now i can’t discriminate against you because it’s a prohibited ground of discrimination.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    @atease:

    @almashir:

      Okay, I�ll stop going off-topic now.  I can�t help it.  It�s a medical condition.   😄

    Damn, now i can’t discriminate against you because it’s a prohibited ground of discrimination.

    Don’t worry, stupidity is terminal. 😛


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Bombers are broken. I got a missing wing to prove it.



  • hehe, well, for those that are poppin in, essentially, in my public forum game, I lost 1/2 the German airforce in R1.  I didn’t even sink a single ship in z111.(should have hit 3.33times).  I deliberately waited one turn due to lack of planes!  I felt I didn’t need to rush the issue, so my stack is one turn behind.

    It is turn 3.  On turn 4 I will be in Belarus with the German stack and my opponent must either leave enough blockers to block 5 italian tanks, 2 planes, 2 bombers and 1 mec  in Smo or I can open Smo to take Moscow…or he 1/2 asses it and I destroy one of the 2 stacks.  Regardless, I only wanted to point out that he retreated and got damn near every available unit into Moscow.  He fought back and has traded well.  My point? There is nothing Russia can do.

    Britain has been kicking my ass.  Every time I send a plane it dies against Britain ships.  Frustrating, but even after losing 6 planes for damn near nothing…I am holding on with Fortress Europe in place(i hope).  With 6 planes…the European board would be much safer imo, but oh well.

    Japan is kicking ass.  Unlike JJ’s test game where he was showing how crazy things could be, screw that.  I am going for the kill.  I don’t want to lose the game to silly thought processes of what if or oh looky, i can send Japan’s fleet to get Egypt etc.  I am however, seriously considering a 3 german bomber move to Sink to allow German can opener for Japan fleet crush/India take - I would be much more prone to do so if I had my six german planes!  Tough to rely on blockers that can be strafed by German bombers in the pacific.  America will have its hands full, but may be able to ignore Europe as Britain is doing well fleet wise and may prove itself to give America the time it needs to put Japan back into the bottle.

    Regardless, this game I feel is more indicative of how things went seriously wrong for Germany and Italy(lost their fleet), and yet they will be in Bry turn5.  I don’t know of any conventional game that can consistently make that boast.(unless Russia builds tanks…then things get a bit hairy - but only for a bit)

    A properly played Japan is crucial to any Axis win.  To hell with Germany taking on the world alone.  Oh, and having an Italy that can add to the fun is nice should I be able to revive that old hide.

    The game is on the play boardgame forums.  Its me and JJ vs bonusbent and another fella.



  • @Auswanderersland:

    hehe, well, for those that are poppin in, essentially, in my public forum game, I lost 1/2 the German airforce in R1.  I didn’t even sink a single ship in z111.(should have hit 3.33times).  I deliberately waited one turn due to lack of planes!  I felt I didn’t need to rush the issue, so my stack is one turn behind.

    It is turn 3.  On turn 4 I will be in Belarus with the German stack and my opponent must either leave enough blockers to block 5 italian tanks, 2 planes, 2 bombers and 1 mec  in Smo or I can open Smo to take Moscow…or he 1/2 asses it and I destroy one of the 2 stacks.  Regardless, I only wanted to point out that he retreated and got damn near every available unit into Moscow.  He fought back and has traded well.  My point? There is nothing Russia can do.

    Britain has been kicking my ass.  Every time I send a plane it dies against Britain ships.  Frustrating, but even after losing 6 planes for damn near nothing…I am holding on with Fortress Europe in place(i hope).  With 6 planes…the European board would be much safer imo, but oh well.

    Japan is kicking ass.  Unlike JJ’s test game where he was showing how crazy things could be, screw that.  I am going for the kill.  I don’t want to lose the game to silly thought processes of what if or oh looky, i can send Japan’s fleet to get Egypt etc.  I am however, seriously considering a 3 german bomber move to Sink to allow German can opener for Japan fleet crush/India take - I would be much more prone to do so if I had my six german planes!  Tough to rely on blockers that can be strafed by German bombers in the pacific.  America will have its hands full, but may be able to ignore Europe as Britain is doing well fleet wise and may prove itself to give America the time it needs to put Japan back into the bottle.

    Regardless, this game I feel is more indicative of how things went seriously wrong for Germany and Italy(lost their fleet), and yet they will be in Bry turn5.  I don’t know of any conventional game that can consistently make that boast.(unless Russia builds tanks…then things get a bit hairy - but only for a bit)

    A properly played Japan is crucial to any Axis win.  To hell with Germany taking on the world alone.  Oh, and having an Italy that can add to the fun is nice should I be able to revive that old hide.

    The game is on the play boardgame forums.  Its me and JJ vs bonusbent and another fella.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=31356.45;topicseen

    Your game is similar in starts to my PBEM game. It does look bleak in my test game, but there is still a lot of time I suspect before things break.

    It’s obvious that a normal Japan and the German bomber strategy will not lose under our normal tests, but there are a few unconventional strategies that have potential. I am not saying Germany can always take on the world alone, I was merely demonstrating the ability to hold its own and in that particular game, it might be done…Still waiting for the dice to break my way (no Vaseline in that game). Even with every major battle going against me instead of for me, its still tight…At least I’ll get to demonstrate how bad dice have trouble defeating this concept. (Also demonstrated on your round 1 Germany).


  • TripleA

    @JamesAleman:

    …Still waiting for the dice to break my way (no Vaseline in that game). Even with every major battle going against me instead of for me, its still tight…At least I’ll get to demonstrate how bad dice have trouble defeating this concept…

    i feel like we are playing 2 different games. one of the reasons(besides your good strategy and great play) your axis have done so well is that you have gotten great dice.



  • @allweneedislove:

    @JamesAleman:

    …Still waiting for the dice to break my way (no Vaseline in that game). Even with every major battle going against me instead of for me, its still tight…At least I’ll get to demonstrate how bad dice have trouble defeating this concept…

    i feel like we are playing 2 different games. one of the reasons(besides your good strategy and great play) your axis have done so well is that you have gotten great dice.

    I’m not trying to offend, but I will try to defend my point as politely as possible. I am very grateful to play you and you are an excellent player and good sport for helping me test this concept.

    What is important, I don’t take chances, my assaults are usually overkill due to my conservative nature (built upon 20+ years of Andy schooling me face to face with underpowered assaults on all fronts that never failed and that I always miserably failed to replicate, thus here I am today killing flies with sledge hammers) and thus dice are not really changing my outcomes. Due to game circumstances, you were “forced” to take some chancy battles, and none of them have failed…If fortune swung the other way and I “over” hit in a key battle, this game would likely be finished.

    Remember when your three mech took out 3 out of 5 two’s out of 3 rounds of battle? Then that same round 7 a single Anzac fighter hits twice in two rounds to destroy 2 key artillery (should have been more if 3 mech didn’t kill 3 units) with no loss, a single( or more) survivors would have left me a land unit for my transports that were 1 turn from Queensland/South Australia or any island (and I didn’t mention this sequence started with a suicide USA bomber that hit and had a 33 percent chance of missing which left 1 less unit against the 3 mech and anzac fighter later rounds). Anzac is later forced to hit round 8 a Japanese fleet that that should have been a 2 round battle (you hit 4 times as I, but I should have hit 5 and that extra unit missed, then hits the following round and when I hit 1 lower only  hitting twice, that left a “4” for a round 3 hit that should never have happened), so it goes 3  combat rounds instead of 2 and I actually lost 2 Battleships as a result. If you think America should have done better on its turn against the navy, do the battle calculator and remember I chose to remove air units to keep navy that large.  Round 5 three Russian infantry attack 2 2’s and win with 2 1’s left over after 4 rounds of battle (those Russians are still harassing Japan), The German navy that hits 2 times first round….(that battle worked out, cause the 9 destroyers that should have been 6 or 7 only hit twice as if their weren’t 9 destroyers left over  😄

    Now, I have had good rolls too but I did not “need” them. Please show me an axis combat move battle, where I was not going to win by average odds 😉

    I’m not mentioning the 2 bombers hit by 2 Destroyers because admittedly your aaguns are terrible.  😉

    I hope this helps defend my point, I like you and am not trying to upset you, just clarifying what I mentioned earlier.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    As a game observer… in my opinion it’s gone both ways.  Nothing to write home about.



  • It’s always fun to bomb the crap out of U.K. as Germany,
    TOTAL DESTRUCTION!!!


  • Customizer

    James Aleman,
    I finally got to try out some of your Axis bomber strategy on a Global 40 game. We have only gone through 4 rounds so far, but results have been interesting.
    1 > German bomber attacks on UK facilities has been devastating. AB in Scotland has 3 damage, NB in UK has 5 damage, AB in UK had 6 damage but was just repaired, IC in UK had 20 damage but repaired to just 6 damage now. UK didn’t even bother repairing facilities at home for 2 rounds due to German bomber presence. Rather they produced in South Africa and Canada. Cleared Africa of all Italian units and sank all Italian navy, both with a little help from French. UK rules Middle-East including Iraq.
    NOTE: Looking back now, once the UK factory was maxed out, I probably should have bought transports and did Sealion. Got too focused on bomber buys and preparing for Barbarossa.
    2 > German bombers stationed in W. Germany is keeping the US fleet at bay and out of Europe. US Atlantic fleet not large enough to withstand a fleet of German bombers. At present I have 15 German bombers (lost 1 in SBR Leningrad IC). Started Barbarossa G4 (actually I3). Right now 11 bombers in E Poland, 4 in W Germany. Will SBR Moscow next round. Moscow has 4 fighters/possible interceptors but with 11 bombers, like you said I will trade a few of my bombers for Russian fighters.
    NOTE: Moscow will be tough. Russia did odd thing. Stacked guys in Leningrad and Ukraine then as soon as I attacked, retreated everything towards Moscow leaving 1 infantry blocker in each territory behind. Leningrad & Ukraine will be easy but Russian stacks will reach Moscow before I can reach them, even with Italian can openings. Moscow will have A LOT of men there, but perhaps German SBRs will do enough that they won’t be able to build much more.
    3 > Japan is doing fair with their bombers. Most of their effort ended up chasing the Russians across the north, which does help cut down Russian income but doesn’t do much for their efforts in the south. China and India is actually causing problems on the mainland. Most of Japan’s fleet is gone – 2 CV, 1 BB and 3 transports left. Large US fleet hanging out by Iwo Jima, which makes for a good US bomber base to SBR Japan. US subs ready to attack Japan’s convoys. Still, Japan has 10-11 bombers plus 3 fighters on Japan and 2 fighters, 1 tac on Korea. Maybe a huge air raid against US fleet may do some good. Japan struggling to get DEI 1 island at a time because of dwindling navy. India/ANZAC has been making very good use of their air force by picking apart the Japanese navy. While Japan is making gains down there, it has not been easy.
    4 > I went against your purchase plan for Japan round 3 and bought a minor IC for the mainland. Japan was losing too much ground to China and India. Hopefully a few mechs/tanks with air support will ease things up there.
    Overall I think this strategy is a success. A lot depends on how the final battle for Moscow turns out. It looks like he plans to just turtle up and let me come to him. If he uses his fighters as interceptors, I think that will be better for me. If not, then the battle will be a little tougher but my SBRs should do great. As for Japan, I guess their main job is to hold out long enough and cause the Allies enough headaches for Germany to get the 8 cities in Europe, right? I guess as long as they don’t lose Tokyo, they have done their job, right? Italy has a modest force in Russia taking a few Russian territories, which has been easy for them only fighting 1 infantry each time, but they won’t be much help getting Moscow with that huge stack of Russians there. They also won’t be much help getting Cairo since they have been totally chased out of Africa. Perhaps if they start heading south through the Caucasus and Middle-East, but that is a long ways to go and UK may be able to stop them before they get there. With my W Germany bombers keeping the US fleet at bay, things are going all right. I just hope US/UK doesn’t find a way to counter that because my European defenses are pretty thin.
    Probably won’t get to play any more of the game until my next weekend, which will be Monday night. I’ll let you know what happens.



  • @knp7765:

    James Aleman,
    I finally got to try out some of your Axis bomber strategy on a Global 40 game. We have only gone through 4 rounds so far, but results have been interesting.
    1 > German bomber attacks on UK facilities has been devastating. AB in Scotland has 3 damage, NB in UK has 5 damage, AB in UK had 6 damage but was just repaired, IC in UK had 20 damage but repaired to just 6 damage now. UK didn’t even bother repairing facilities at home for 2 rounds due to German bomber presence. Rather they produced in South Africa and Canada. Cleared Africa of all Italian units and sank all Italian navy, both with a little help from French. UK rules Middle-East including Iraq.
    NOTE: Looking back now, once the UK factory was maxed out, I probably should have bought transports and did Sealion. Got too focused on bomber buys and preparing for Barbarossa.
    2 > German bombers stationed in W. Germany is keeping the US fleet at bay and out of Europe. US Atlantic fleet not large enough to withstand a fleet of German bombers. At present I have 15 German bombers (lost 1 in SBR Leningrad IC). Started Barbarossa G4 (actually I3). Right now 11 bombers in E Poland, 4 in W Germany. Will SBR Moscow next round. Moscow has 4 fighters/possible interceptors but with 11 bombers, like you said I will trade a few of my bombers for Russian fighters.
    NOTE: Moscow will be tough. Russia did odd thing. Stacked guys in Leningrad and Ukraine then as soon as I attacked, retreated everything towards Moscow leaving 1 infantry blocker in each territory behind. Leningrad & Ukraine will be easy but Russian stacks will reach Moscow before I can reach them, even with Italian can openings. Moscow will have A LOT of men there, but perhaps German SBRs will do enough that they won’t be able to build much more.
    3 > Japan is doing fair with their bombers. Most of their effort ended up chasing the Russians across the north, which does help cut down Russian income but doesn’t do much for their efforts in the south. China and India is actually causing problems on the mainland. Most of Japan’s fleet is gone – 2 CV, 1 BB and 3 transports left. Large US fleet hanging out by Iwo Jima, which makes for a good US bomber base to SBR Japan. US subs ready to attack Japan’s convoys. Still, Japan has 10-11 bombers plus 3 fighters on Japan and 2 fighters, 1 tac on Korea. Maybe a huge air raid against US fleet may do some good. Japan struggling to get DEI 1 island at a time because of dwindling navy. India/ANZAC has been making very good use of their air force by picking apart the Japanese navy. While Japan is making gains down there, it has not been easy.
    4 > I went against your purchase plan for Japan round 3 and bought a minor IC for the mainland. Japan was losing too much ground to China and India. Hopefully a few mechs/tanks with air support will ease things up there.
    Overall I think this strategy is a success. A lot depends on how the final battle for Moscow turns out. It looks like he plans to just turtle up and let me come to him. If he uses his fighters as interceptors, I think that will be better for me. If not, then the battle will be a little tougher but my SBRs should do great. As for Japan, I guess their main job is to hold out long enough and cause the Allies enough headaches for Germany to get the 8 cities in Europe, right? I guess as long as they don’t lose Tokyo, they have done their job, right? Italy has a modest force in Russia taking a few Russian territories, which has been easy for them only fighting 1 infantry each time, but they won’t be much help getting Moscow with that huge stack of Russians there. They also won’t be much help getting Cairo since they have been totally chased out of Africa. Perhaps if they start heading south through the Caucasus and Middle-East, but that is a long ways to go and UK may be able to stop them before they get there. With my W Germany bombers keeping the US fleet at bay, things are going all right. I just hope US/UK doesn’t find a way to counter that because my European defenses are pretty thin.
    Probably won’t get to play any more of the game until my next weekend, which will be Monday night. I’ll let you know what happens.

    Thank you for the review. You really don’t need all bomber builds with Japan…I like to have 3-4 to bomb India…then I go navy to drag out the Pacific and tie up America. If you can get 3 German bombers to Asia by turn 5 or 6, it really hurts the allies in the Pacific. With 3 German bombers that never need to fire a shot, the allies must block with 4-5 ships to assure they can block, thus effectively eliminating blocking in mutli-sea zone route situations. Worse, Germany/Japan can bomb Indian/Anzac naval bases to slow America to 2 movement. Against an ill prepared Anzac, staging German bombers on an air base in Kwangtung/Malaysia/Philippines permits Japanese navy to move to West Australia, German bombers kill anzac blockers in middle south sea zone, and Japan amphibious assaults Anzac capital.

    In Europe I personally attack Russia turn 2 every game, you don’t want Russia building 2 more times by waiting until round 4…I bomb Russia 1-3 times beginning on turn 4 and if Russia holds factories, I bypass units and plunder Moscow turn 5. If they retreat to Moscow, beginning turn 5 I build 13 mech a turn for 2-3 turns, then go bombers and grab Moscow turns 9-10. Realistically Europe falls turns 11-13 to victory cities against a strong allied player. This gives you time to redeploy to secure Volgograd/London/Egypt for the final cities. Avoid letting UK distract you. You don’t want to trade units with UK while Russia holds their capital unless the bait is really juicy…No bombing UK, as it puts bombers out of position to bomb Russia, ignore thier fleet in the Med and only keep enough land units in Europe to trade Italy if required…(not saying give it up, but as long as Germany takes it back, Italy does not collect income if UK grabs it a second time). Once Moscow is yours, you will be in the 60-80 IPC range, then you build even more air and deal with UK for the win.

    With a strong Japan, German air force, and Italian land units (that garrison Europe for Germany), you should win against bids as high as 20 (assuming they don’t put all of that in China).

    I am looking to add 3 more active games to bring my total to 6 games, my opponents are taking a day or two between turns now as it really gets hard for the allies mid game as you draw nearer to 8 cities. Any volunteers? I hope to post 12 game results to this thread plus any other games others play in the forums. This should be a large enough sample to determine if this plan is any better than other plans.



  • Hey, JamesAleman.  I’ve been following this thread on your bomber strategy for sometime, and admire its creativity.  This last weekend I was able to play my second game of Global (face to face), and got to play Germany, so I gave your Dark Skies a go.

    While it wasn’t perfect, the threat projection of my bomber stack worked rather well.  The Allies evacuated the Mediterranean of every ship (other than subs) due to the threat.  It also slowed down his attempt to drop a fleet in the channel.  At the end of seven hours of play, I had a decent stack outside Moscow (though not nearly enough to definitively take it.

    Mistakes we made:  Japan did not commit to fighting only Russia and China, but rather went for a traditional DoW turn 2.  I feel this would have helped Germany pressure Russia earlier.  Also, I made the mistake of strat bombing Moscow turn FOUR instead of turn THREE, allowing him another full infantry buy.  To compound matters, I was struggling to get my Italians to the front line (though I’m not sure I was coordinating them with the Germans properly…).

    One question I do have, is how do you defend Germany’s Western front, if you’re devoting so many troops to the east right off the jump?

    Also, what is the best use of the Italian fleet?

    Thanks for this strategy.  It definitely helped this noob a lot in his second game of Global.  =D



  • @MistuhJay:

    Hey, JamesAleman.  I’ve been following this thread on your bomber strategy for sometime, and admire its creativity.  This last weekend I was able to play my second game of Global (face to face), and got to play Germany, so I gave your Dark Skies a go.

    While it wasn’t perfect, the threat projection of my bomber stack worked rather well.  The Allies evacuated the Mediterranean of every ship (other than subs) due to the threat.  It also slowed down his attempt to drop a fleet in the channel.  At the end of seven hours of play, I had a decent stack outside Moscow (though not nearly enough to definitively take it.

    Mistakes we made:  Japan did not commit to fighting only Russia and China, but rather went for a traditional DoW turn 2.  I feel this would have helped Germany pressure Russia earlier.  Also, I made the mistake of strat bombing Moscow turn FOUR instead of turn THREE, allowing him another full infantry buy.  To compound matters, I was struggling to get my Italians to the front line (though I’m not sure I was coordinating them with the Germans properly…).

    One question I do have, is how do you defend Germany’s Western front, if you’re devoting so many troops to the east right off the jump?

    Also, what is the best use of the Italian fleet?

    Thanks for this strategy.  It definitely helped this noob a lot in his second game of Global.  =D

    I typically use Italian troops to defend the Western Front, Germany’s focus the first 4 turns is bombers, but you can make 3 mech infantry instead of a bomber as needed if there is significant threat of a landing.

    I use the Italian fleet to engage the French fleet in z93. I’m not sure how much fleet you are left with, but you will be able to sink them. After words, I like to take whatever the UK leaves open. In most games, I see UK focus on Italy in the Med, so you likely lose your navy. If  you can get Egypt, that makes the game easier.

    Once you back Russia into its capital, around turn 5 you will want to produce all mech infantry, this typically gives you the ability to seize Moscow turns 9-10. Remember to grab Volgorad and Caucasus while you wait for Moscow to fall. Germany’s income should be in the 60’s-80’s before you know it.



  • @JamesAleman:

    Once you back Russia into its capital, around turn 5 you will want to produce all mech infantry, this typically gives you the ability to seize Moscow turns 9-10. Remember to grab Volgorad and Caucasus while you wait for Moscow to fall. Germany’s income should be in the 60’s-80’s before you know it.

    A friend and I have been running a “cooperative” strategy session using the “all bombers” strategy and the biggest problem is that because of the weak G1 naval purchase with no credible threat of Sealion the UK decided on a UK1 Iraq, pulling the India transport over instead of going for DEI with it. Turn two and three saw minor factories in Iraq and Persia. The extra Indians in Iraq thus went to Africa turn 2 and along with a couple of trucks they easily eradicated the Italians in Africa. Now Germany has to contend with a large number of UK tanks and trucks as well as planes all over southern Russia but thanks to the large amount of bombers, Russian is pretty much damage-capped on all their factories every round.

    Italy got slammed hard by Taranto round 1 and despite Germany cleaning up the med with planes and reinforcing Tobruk as well as gifting Italy a few territories to keep them in the 20s all game, they are now facing naval eradication by the US/UK and are going into full-on turtle mode.

    Japan is doing their thing, having completely eliminated China and despite a disastrous failed first attempt at the Philippines (second try was a charm, the first try was a very risky hit) they are trouncing the US navy, have two production facilities on mainland China, and although they haven’t taken India, it is certainly closed for business (I think after three rounds of saving they still just barely had enough money for a single purchase). Japan decided to start the Russia party early so they’ve eaten up a massive chunk of the northern Russian territories. Anzac is being a plucky thorn in Japan’s ass though, setting up Java with an airbase and four planes. Japan has been spread too thin to do anything about this but now that Japan is rising fast it is demanding immediate attention now.

    Japanese reinforcements into Russia are going to contend with UK fast-movers with their huge assortment of planes. The game easily belongs to anyone at this time and it looks like the bloodbath between Germany+Italy+Japan and UK+Russia that will take place in the Russian heartland will probably decide the fate of the game.


  • Customizer

    Well, we have gotten to the end of round 11 now and it is looking very bad for the Axis.
    The US took Northern Italy and UK took Rome, so Italy is all but out of the game now. Germany failed in Russia and the Russians are starting to get strong. It turns out their steady retreat to Moscow worked, even with heavy German bombing. By the time the Germans reached Moscow, Russia had 1 Tac, 4 fighters, 2 tanks, 2 mechs, 4 artillery, 5 AA guns and 58 infantry. Russia resisted using their fighters to intercept German bombers pounding the factory. Even after 2 large German attacks and 1 small Italian attack, I never got through all that Russian infantry (at the end of the 2nd German attack, Russia was down to 1 infantry along with the artillery, tanks, mechs, fighters and tac). Axis forces were depleted in Russia and the US/UK were causing problems in the west.
    The US also employed the bomber strategy and it has worked very well. Japan’s IC and airbase are maxed out on damage. West Germany’s IC and airbase are maxed out as are all three minors in France. They also keep maxing out the Germany IC so I have to keep repairing it just to buy men for my capital defense. France is totally open. The only reason the Allies haven’t taken them is lack of transports in the Atlantic thanks to German bomber operations. Also, UK really concentrated on taking out Italy.
    Japan has done somewhat better. They managed to take all of China, although it took some work. They have all of Eastern Russia and are hitting hard against Indian troops in Burma, trying to get to Calcutta. They have taken some Russian pressure off of Germany since Russia has to answer the small force encroaching in Central Russia. However, Japan is getting convoyed silly due to US and ANZAC subs all over the place. The US and ANZAC are trying to make progress but keep losing transports due to Japanese bombers (they still have 5 or 6).
    Overall, I am not so sure that heavy bomber buys by Germany and Japan work quite so well. I might have made wrong choices, mainly not doing Sealion, but the Axis ground forces just got wasted after a while. The threat of Axis bombers did keep the Allies at bay for a while, but the Axis just couldn’t seem to conquer enough before the Allies managed to find ways to pick them apart.


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