• Me and Smith got a big debate going on who cuased WW1 in the “Axis always win” forum, so i wanted to hear what everyone else thinks about the topic. Since ive already typed alot on this and im lazy, ill repeat my position from the other forum, and see what you guys think. I personally think It was a combination of Austria and Russia, not Germany

    Austria would have gone to war with Serbia anyway, they were already beginning partial mobilization. This would have caused France and Russia to go to war with Austria due to their allaince with Serbia, and Gemrnay would have done the same .The “Blank Check” that Germany gave Austria was in reference to Serbia, stating that they would back Austria’s actions in Serbia. Neither of them thought that Russia was willing to go to war, believing Russia was not ready. (it wasn’t, as Tannenburg, the Brusilov offensive, and eventually the Bolshevik revolution showed) They had no reason to, but Nicolas had a point of pride to preserve as defender of the balkans, and did. When Russia began mobilizing, Chancellor Hollweg began negotiations with Russia on July 30th to prevent war, but Russia decline and began mobilizing again. Only when Russia cut off all negotiations with Germany and renewed it’s mobilization, did Germany declare war on Russia and begin it’s own mobilization. They never threatened France, but France, not wishing to lose face by dishonoring their allaince with Russia, (Which was why Germany gave Austria the “blank check”, because of their Dual Alliance) and wishing to restore the former glory of France and redeem itself from the Franco-Prussian war, declared war on Germany. If Germany had not mobilized and gone to war with Russia, they would have been overran by Russia, and their sovereignty was more important than any war, which most people thought would be over in a few months, even weeks. If Germany had forced Austria not to go to war with Serbia, than the war could have been avoided. However, if Austria had never givin such unbelievibly harsh demands to Serbia, if Russia had never foolishly began mobilizing to protect Serbia, and if France had not been so bent on preserving and redeeming it’s prestige, the war could also have been avoided. It’s foolish to think that only Germany was the cause of the war. Both Austria and Russia did just as much to cause such a war.

    Anyway, thats my opinion. Try to tear me apart, state your own case, or defend me, wanna know what people in America (or Europe, Asia, etc…) think.

  • So i take it you don’t think it possible that the Serbs were responsible?

  • Moderator

    Sorta… The alliance war was what I consider the cause but it could also be grudges that were the cause…

  • Everyone.

  • I forgot there names, but when that assasine killed the prince of austria i believe, i forget his name, that prompted the WW1!

    By the way, good forum, when i’m more awake, i could talke about this forever! Something thats not WWII, thats good once in a while!

  • F_alk,
    Germnay did make several attempts at diplomacy. Wilhelm II did send a telegram to Nicolas II when he began mobilizing his armies, which reduced the full mobilization to a partial mobilization, and they sent chancellor Hollweg to negotiate with them. Nicolas II changed his mind, though, and expelled Hollweg and rnewed th mobilization, pratically declaring war on Germany. The blank check was diplomacy. They were saying that they agreed with Austria about Serbia and would back them, something they kinda had to do becuase of the dual alliance. Thier tactics were overly offesnive, but so was France’s. They employed plan number 175 (or some number around there), which was a mass charge into Alsac-Lorraine, then on into the heartland. They charged and got slaughtered. Countries tend to prepare for the next war by looking at the last (Maginot line in ww2), and the Franco-prussian war was won by speed and offense, so it made sense at the time to attack.

    In reference to Irish terrorism, i wont deny that England was extremely harsh on the Irish when they controlled them, but that does not justify attacks on random citizens who were born years after Ireland gained it’s independence. If wales and Scotland really wanted independence, thye could get it, but they dont. Scotland has it’s own Parlement, and are satisfied with the current conditions. Last time i went to scotland (last year) i asked people what thye thought about independence and thye did not think it was necessary. I cant speak about Wales, but i think the situation is similar

    It is possible for something to be everyones fault, just becuase it can be twisted to justify dictators does not mean it cant apply

  • 2007 AAR League

    I’d have to say Austria-Hungary. If they weren’t doing stuff (I don’t know what exactly) to Serbia then there wouldn’t have ever of been a war. I don’t know if any of you saw my quote from awhile back but it was from the Great War, “Two rounds from one pistol rocked the world. It was the crime that was the small stone, rocked, brings the avalanche.”

  • This is one of the best posts offered in GD for quite a while.

    Blame?- Austria-Hungary their “note” of August was ridiculously harsh.

    It is interesting to note that Gavrilio Princip who actually assassinated the Archduke Franz Ferdinand was Bosnian. Bosnia was part of the A-H Empire. Anti A-H empire folks hid out in Serbis though AFAIK, did not get
    explosives and military training there as was alleged by the A-H Empire…

  • It was definitly the fault of Germany and Austria.

    Austria was looking to increase its power in the Balkan. It was just looking far a casus belli. When terrorists killed the Archeduke Franz Ferdinand, the Austrian governement wanted to make sure it got one. They sent an ultimatum to Serbia, hoping, that Serbia would reject it. Serbia accepted some but not all of those terms, and Austria declared war. Germany is responsible for encouraging Austria in its plan to anex Serbia.

  • @F_alk:

    sure about the “did not get training and explosives there” (in Serbia) ?

    Otherwise, then the attack was just a -by new US doctrine totally justified- pre-emptive strike aimed against terrorists. By this logic, the only nations to blame are France and Russia.

    France & Russia? Are you seriously comparing The A-H Empire to the US?

  • America isnt immune to imperialism and greed, just look at the mexican american war. We got alot of colonies form Spain, over a really stupid reason that we used to go to war, just like what Austria-Hungary was trying to with Serbia. The American people were behind the war, so the government was able to do it, thats about the only real difference (And America won 😄 )

    Also, im quite certain that the Black Hand was not sponsored by the government of Serbia. THye may have received training and weapons there, but it was not state sponsered, so Austria blaming the state is unjustified.

  • It wasn’t only the war with Spain. The words I changed apear in italic.

    The USA was looking to increase its power in the Middle East. It was just looking far a casus belli. When terrorists attacked the World Trade Center, the US governement wanted to make sure it got one. They sent an ultimatum to Iraq, hoping, that Iraq would reject it. Iraq accepted some but not all of those terms, and the USA declared war.

    Even though Bush claims Saddam did not fullfill all terms, I think he did.

  • Did you not watch the News. THEY FOUND ILLEGIAL WEAPON DUMPS!!! Even though they weren’t WMDs.

  • Illegal weapon dumps? What’s that? Did they wreck their weapons illegally? What weapons? Chemical weapons? Biological weapons? nuclear weapons?

    Yes, Saddam did have rockets exceding by a few miles their allowed range, and he dismantled them before the war.

    Read what Kay was saying about illegal weapons:

  • While im not sure of the exact contents, they did find chemical weapons delivery systems, even if the chemical weapons themsleves were not present (destoryed, most likely, since it would be like a building a nuclear warhead without Urainium), which violate the treaty. Also, to me it does not matter what weapons he had or did not have, he was slaughtering his citizens. If Germnay had never gone past the gain of the munich conference, but convinced all it’s allies to deport jews to germnay and began slaughtering them (he would have about 2 million to kill), do you think a war with him would be justified? (the answer is yes, in case you have no, or very twisted, morals 😛 ) its the same thing with iraq, even if it was not on the same scale.

    Now that ive said that, i would appreciate if you mentioned something on topic along with the iraq debate. While Austria’s actions with Serbia were pretty bad, using the knoweldeg that the austrian;s had they could be justified. When you look at the demands, thye did not actually harm the Serbain state physically, it just impinged on theri soveriegnty in regards to the conviction of members of Anti-Austrian terrorists. Serbia could ahve accepted them, it would not have been harmed physically, although it’s pride would have been shot, burned, ressurected, and shot again. A COnflict between Austria and the midget state of Serbai did not have to invlove the rest of the big 6 (Germany, Britian, Russia, France, and Italy), which is why i blame Russia. Thye were not ready for war, had little monetary value invested in Serbia, and could have let the conflict play out. Thye decided to go to war with Austria, and obviously Germany as well, depsite Germany’s attempts at diplomacy. Furthermore, they dragged France into the mix with their allaince. Austria may have lit the match, but Russia lit the fuse.

    Also i would like to hear from the person who said that britian was to blame, that would be interesting :D. And no one has said france…you would think with all the french bashing these days they would score a few votes :lol: .

  • Comrade commissar you are correct that A-H Empire shouldn’t pick on
    “midget state” of Serbia, but the entangling alliances were what brought all of Europe into the conflict. A-H could have kept everyone out if they wanted to, but sought and got the old blank check from Kaiser Wilhelm.

  • Comrade commissar you are correct that A-H Empire shouldn’t pick on
    “midget state” of Serbia, but the entangling alliances were what brought all of Europe into the conflict. A-H could have kept everyone out if they wanted to, but sought and got the old blank check from Kaiser Wilhelm.

  • i dont think it was the alliance system exactly, but the way all the countries handled their allainces. Before 1914 the countries used their allainces to pressure there allies into avoiding war, while in 1914 countries like Austria and Russia used thier allainces to pressure Germany and France INTO a war. Also, before around 1905 (Russo-Japanses war), the way war was conducted prevented such a long conflict from occuring. There were wars (Franco-Prussian, Six weeks war, Crimean war, etc.) but they were wars of movement and armies, not total wars of trenches and entire nations.

    Im officialy a comrade now, pretty sweet. Fear my bolshevik hordes! 😎

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