Brainstorming for the Central Powers


  • @xxstefanx:

    AH must NOT waste any money on ships!

    Germany must not waste any money on ships!

    Ottoman Empire must not waste any money on ships!

    Ground forces and fighters that’s all there is for the CPs to win - nothing else!
    And even then it’s difficult enough!

    Completely disagree. CP Navy is the way to go. By Germany “wasting” their cash on Battleships, Britain is forced to buy more to protect it’s and America’s transports. And once Russia falls, Austria can focus on Italy and build a navy.

    Austria is the key to this game, in my opinion and gameplay. Germany just keeps France and Britain preoccupied, and Austria swoops in with it’s forces and navy to finish the blow.

  • Customizer

    The problem with the German tank build is that the UK will probably build at least as many, and by shipping them directly to Picardy/Belgium get them into action much sooner.

    Unless you’re using some variation on the SM movement, the German armour will be too late to save the western front from collapse.


  • Which furthers the need for a German navy.  Dropping a ship in SZ 8 or 9 will prevent transports from being loaded.  If the Germans control SZ 9, it delays another turn since the UK would have to load from Wales.


  • Battleships don’t generate much needed income to reduce the IPC disadvantage for the first rounds.

    If Germany buys a BB then what?
    France already has 2 and Britain can simply build one for North Sea as well.
    -> Result German Navy does NOTHING!

    Just again to realize:
    Starting income

    • CPs: 77 IPC
    • Allies: 113 IPC
      (which is 12 Inf each round just to say!)

    If you don’t eliminate this gap FAST you have absolutely NO chance to win! Naturally!

    SO in conclusion here is the brainstorming:
    1. Strat: Eliminate Russia as fast as possible (RR or by opportunity Moscow.) (natural 1st option)
    2. Strat: Eliminate Italy as fast as possible AND (re-)take Africa as fast as possible (can be tried because it would get boring always playing Strat 1)
    3. Strat: Eliminate Italy as fast as possible AND Russia soon afterwards by RR. (same here)


  • It doesn’t generate much income advantage, but that is only half of the economy.  What it does is increases the cost of the Allies.  It costs the Allies more at sea due to the cost of transports and both the US and UK need their own escorts.  I also don’t think anyone said buy just one and you are good to go.

    A little more detail on you strat would be helpful.  That strategy appears to be what most people have been trying with little success.  what are you doing differently.  What is as fast as possible?  What do you do with France in the mean time?  How do you prevent the Ottomans from getting crushed with the Brits dumping their entire income in India or shuttling them in to northern Russia.  You seem to be stuck on just focusing on the income difference without focusing on the cost of the war.  A hyper aggressive plan is expensive and it typically widens the gap you are attempting to reduce.  Not to mention your supply lines are getting longer, so if you are losing units faster than the resupply you will have issues.  Perhaps the details resolves these issues and they aren’t readily apparent from your brief explanation.


  • Hey Texas!

    Look at “Who Wins” p.9 and plz try it against your friends.
    Without exceptional rolls for either side it should turn out a pretty decent/close game.

    If you have any questions how to continue the outlined opening feel free to ask.
    For now I would just say: Try it!
    (and no - like in chess - the opening alone does not deliver an automatic win!)

  • '10

    Most of those starting moves are decent, but I don’t see much point in taking a poke at Tuscany.  Even if you win your 50/50, you gain two bucks for one round, not enough to replace the infantry you lose when they take it back with forces from Rome next round.


  • Point is not to waste the BB bombardment!
    Generally speaking you wont waste a 6/3 strike opportunity especially as the CPs!

    So in detail:
    First “50%”: The plus outcome:
    A-H makes his “sure” hit and Italy misses his 50%.
    Results:

    • You eliminated 1 Italian Inf
    • You gain 2 IPC
    • You have a 50% chance on the defense R2 yourself to make another hit.

    ALl this is an excellent outcome!

    Second “50%”: the minus outcome.
    A-H makes his “sure” hit but Italy unfortunately hits too!
    Result:

    • 1 Inf trade off on both sides!

    So nothing gained, nothing lost!

    Of course you can miss both dice rolls with your BB and Inf AND the Italian Inf hits but that is not very likely.

    Overall chances are clearly on A-H side.
    Would be a fault to miss out on this.


  • Don`t forget that if AH manages to capture Toskany, Italy will not be able to move all units from naples/rome to venice (playing the new 2-movement rule).

    Their troops in Venice were cut off from the rest at least for one round. In R2 AH can make a big push from Tyrol and Triest.

    I always do that amphibious assault with AH in R1.

  • '10

    With the two-movement rule, it might make sense.  As it stands, you have a 77% chance to hit, defense has a 50%.

    You hit, they miss:  38.5%
    Both hit:  38.5%
    They hit, you miss:  11.5%
    Both miss:  11.5%
    60+% chance you get no money back.

    I frankly don’t believe the CPs want to trade 1-for-1 early on, but I could be wrong.


  • Please look at my and even your own post again!

    The 2 movemnt rule is absolutely not necessary in order to make sense (but with it of course even better as Chacmool pointed out!)

    It is just a little side move but clearly in favour of AH.
    I think you should be able to realize that.

  • Customizer

    Just a though - shouldn’t Austria be allowed to move the fleet into SZ17, then use the transport to amphibiously assault neutral Greece?

    In other words, should the Italian fleet be able to stop Austria landing troops in a neutral country? I don’t think so.


  • In this game Italy is at war R1 which is historically incorrect but it is how it is.

    So considering the rules: no.


  • and back to axis plans
    i recently came up with this one: a full frontal attack on ukraine with Austria!
    A1 you can assault tuscany (1 inf, doesn’t matter), move rest of troops to serbia. move all forces to romania. for this plan to work you need to take it in 1 round. move all other available forces to galicia. R1 will probably assault mesopotamia and gather all in ukraine. A1 you can buy 4 fighters (not that recommended, but it’s possible for max firepower.) A2 you assault full force into the russian stack. after russian counterattack you can A) take belarus and livonia for revolution B) support austrians. make sure germans have enough fighters to remove possible russian ones.


  • Yes.
    Destroying the 6 Romanian and 4 Serbian units right away is the best trade-off you can get R1 with AH.
    Losses = 5.
    You conquer both tts and get 5 IPCs which is almost 2 Inf.
    So basically it is 10/3 which is  a big one you could not afford to miss out.
    (AND: Russia cannot counter it.)

    Economics change to:
    CPs: 82 IPCs (84 if AH is lucky and takes Tuscany!)
    Allies: 108 IPCs

    With the maximum AH stack in Galicia Germany is prepared to make 11 additional IPCs R1:

    • Poland 3
    • Holland 2
    • Belgium 2
    • Africa: 4
      (SO that would already be 93/97!
      Still a slight disadvantage numerically BUT US cannot make itself felt on the battlefields for at least 6 rounds!

  • @xxstefanx:

    Still a slight disadvantage numerically BUT US cannot make itself felt on the battlefields for at least 6 rounds!

    But when it does it bring everything all at once, so you have to count that the US will most likely build 6 transports for 36 IPCs so it will be be able to leverage all of its other available IPCs just like any other Allied country would. Even though the US isn’t at war, you should still count it’s IPC cost in the allied total.

    In our game we calculate how many troops the US can theoretically under optimal circumstances (no CP warship interference and optimal transport load/buy) and on what turns they can land them reliably. Then we calculate the US’s “IPC per turn” contribution to the allied war effort.

    When you look at it this way, with the normal movement ruleset the US’s actual contributions to the allied effort of very minimal.


  • @xxstefanx:

    Yes.
    Destroying the 6 Romanian and 4 Serbian units right away is the best trade-off you can get R1 with AH.
    Losses = 5.
    You conquer both tts and get 5 IPCs which is almost 2 Inf.
    So basically it is 10/3 which is  a big one you could not afford to miss out.
    (AND: Russia cannot counter it.)

    Economics change to:
    CPs: 82 IPCs (84 if AH is lucky and takes Tuscany!)
    Allies: 108 IPCs

    With the maximum AH stack in Galicia Germany is prepared to make 11 additional IPCs R1:

    • Poland 3
    • Holland 2
    • Belgium 2
    • Africa: 4
      (SO that would already be 93/97!
      Still a slight disadvantage numerically BUT US cannot make itself felt on the battlefields for at least 6 rounds!

    i wouldn’t study economics if I were you
    no, just joking, but you did make some calculation errors:
    the CP cannot hold africa, so 8 IPCS go, while the allies can take it, and extras (congo, mozambique, angola, ethiopia, spanish morocco)
    also; the pro-allied neutrals are not included, like portugal, arabia, albania and such
    the ottomans give ground against overwhelming british forces, but that’s later in the game so i understand your calculation.

    but my plan was concerning the russians: not only giving them a hit on the stomach in A1 but a hit on the Ukrainehead in A2 and G2….


  • With the 2-move variant catching on, it may be difficult to get a handle on OOB strategies. With the 2-move rule in place, the CPs have more options now and the Turks CAN get into Africa to make a difference.

    Kim

  • Customizer

    The 2 space move is getting out of hand if it can be used in Africa.

    That wasn’t the idea…


  • I thought 2 space movement is only allowed in Europe and Turkey?

    Doesn`t make sense in Africa…  :?


  • cut the 2 move transport, this is discussion for axis plans (OOB)! I want ideas
    the matter in fact, i just came up with one: using austrian forces through sebastopol to aid autobots…

  • '10

    Last game I played, I ended up sending Germans down to India after the fall of Russia.  Not my whole eastern force, but ten guys or so.  A-H didn’t really have anybody left on the eastern front, or some of them would have come, too.  The Ottomen definitely need the help against India, but even with the German additions, they weren’t able to take it.  They did keep India contested for about three rounds, though, which helped monetarily.  Just couldn’t keep it up.


  • @eudemonist:

    Last game I played, I ended up sending Germans down to India after the fall of Russia.  Not my whole eastern force, but ten guys or so.  A-H didn’t really have anybody left on the eastern front, or some of them would have come, too.  The Ottomen definitely need the help against India, but even with the German additions, they weren’t able to take it.  They did keep India contested for about three rounds, though, which helped monetarily.  Just couldn’t keep it up.

    if in your games ottomans can contest india, then I would like to hear their magic plans…  i just can’t believe it how anybody can take india!


  • @Frontovik:

    @eudemonist:

    Last game I played, I ended up sending Germans down to India after the fall of Russia.�  Not my whole eastern force, but ten guys or so.�  A-H didn’t really have anybody left on the eastern front, or some of them would have come, too.�  The Ottomen definitely need the help against India, but even with the German additions, they weren’t able to take it.�  They did keep India contested for about three rounds, though, which helped monetarily.�  Just couldn’t keep it up.

    if in your games ottomans can contest india, then I would like to hear their magic plans…  i just can’t believe it how anybody can take india!

    well he never did take it from what i read lol

    contested was the closest they ever got

  • '10

    You got it, Crusty.  Otters were able to get down there and contest it for a couple of rounds, but never take it.

    The only reason they even got that far is because Britain didn’t really build there heavy the first few rounds;  the Germans were buying navy, and the Brits had to do the same to keep up.  Even with the assist of eight or ten Germans, though, it still didn’t actually fall.

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