Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ


  • @MuthaRussia:

    … Sorry If i seemed p’d off, I have a tendency to get mad easily! :oops:

    @cystic:

    come 'on F_alk - he’s 13. Give him some time. Then he’ll be able to burn down some houses too . . . .

    Ok…
    but being young is not an excuse for everything. If it was, there would be no need to learn while we are most capable opf learning.

  • Moderator

    @Guerrilla:

    @Janus1:

    also, more of an ideology question, but why would Jesus have been born solely to suffer and die for the sins of man?

    The easy answer is So you don’t have to live with the consequences of Adam’s sin…also it does say in Isiah 53 that he died so that we don’t have to carry sickness in our bodies…

    GG

    noticed I said on #2 that we don’t have to… you have the choice…


  • Hey Cystic Crypt, I am not 13! :evil: So don’t talk out of your backside! :evil:


  • Hey Cystic Crypt, I am not 13, I’m older! :evil: So don’t talk out of your backside! :evil: Also, where did you make that assumption?

    By the way, i saw the movie… Very good! Besides the scourging not as bloody as youd think! But the WHOLE movie is depressing! :cry:


  • come 'on F_alk - he’s 13

    coming from you, i just have to laugh at that

    get deeper Janus

    thank you for the answers, but i wasnt looking for them. i dont really care, being atheist and all, i only care about the (by my judgements) interesting parts of theology, and this isnt one of them. but thank you for the responses anyway.

    Answer: It is all part of his master plan.

    He invented the system by which sins are washed away with blood; and then decided (in advance, of course) that He would sacrifice Himself to Himself for doing things He knew we would do already and that He made us capable of doing in the first place….

    ah, of course (STUPIDEST THING IVE EVER HEARD)

    I think any of us in his position, knowing what would await us afterwards, would not hesitate to be crucified

    hard to say, its like offering someone a million dollars to do something disgusting, that they say they would never do. you say no, but if you saw the money in front of u, u probably would, and probably for a lot less.

    By the way, i saw the movie… Very good! Besides the scourging not as bloody as youd think! But the WHOLE movie is depressing!

    if you want a depressing movie, try AI. JTDC! after you see it, you feel like hanging yourself or slitting your wrists or sumthin


  • @MuthaRussia:

    Hey Cystic Crypt, I am not 13, I’m older! :evil: So don’t talk out of your backside! :evil: Also, where did you make that assumption?

    from your previous posts. Sorry.
    Bad Backside!!


  • Thats ok… Just sick of all these false acxcusations… :-?


  • So with regards to the whole “sacrifice” thing . . . .
    The reason that this considered the greatest sacrifice in history is not because of the pain, or because of the nature of the death.
    The thing of it is that Jesus was “perfect” - he was without sin - even original sin. Yet he “took on our sins” when he died on the cross. at that time God “turned his back” on Christ (as sin is intolerable by God). This is perhaps the most anguishing feature of The Crucifiction, and something that could not be adequately portrayed on screen.
    With regards to K Ration’s consideration that this “was not such a big sacrifice on his part” . . . well, even if it just were a simple crucifiction of an innocent man, i still would consider this a pretty nasty sacrifice.


  • granted, even though it is just a simple crucifiction of an innocent man, it is pretty gruesome, but like K-ration said, i can think of much worse things.


  • We are forgetting Christ’s words to the Father- “Forgive them for they know not what they do”.

    Anyone can be executed back in the Roman times- but to ask forgiveness for those who did it…. That’s the message.


  • @cystic:

    …(as sin is intolerable by God).

    Can you forgive things that are intolerable ?
    I can’t, not as long as the intolerable fact is still “in place”. I can forgive former intolerables though, with a bit of effort.
    Now we have the situation that all intolerables of the future are somehow transfered back, so that they become past and are forgivable?
    Hmmm… i do have problems with that.


  • Well, like I said. I understand the ramifications, and why his sacrifice is important to Christians. It was a swell thing to do. And yes, crucifiction is not a fun way to go. But the point I’d like to touch on, (which some of you have) is what makes it a true sacrifice on the part of Jesus.

    When I think of sacrifice, I think of giving up more than you get. I think of major loss, on a permanent basis.

    So let’s say Jesus did take on the sins of mankind while on the cross. And let’s say God did turn his back on him. Horrible. Painful. Agonizing. Lasted three days. Thats the sacrifice.

    Eternity in Heaven, Eternity of bliss, seated at the right hand of the Father. Millions praising your name daily. That’s the reward.

    Can you even compare those two?

    The only way Christ’s sacrifice could have been significant would be if he were to cease existence upon death. Otherwise, it’s a fake sacrifice basically done by God for personal amusement. Consistent with the being who told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac and say “just kidding” at the last minute, or allowed a good man to suffer inordinately just to win a bet.

    IMHO. =)

    ~cheers


  • if God had truly turned his back on Jesus, and if he had taken on mankinds sins, shouldnt he have gone to hell?


  • I think that’s the idea, but like all good religions, it depends on who you talk to.

    Some think the literal Hell; some think Hell is just the absence of God’s grace. Some say he suffered the torment of all those ever sent to Hell.

    They can up the ante and keep revising it all they want as far as I’m concerned. It was a finite punishment, rewarded by everlasting glory. It was not a sacrifice. Jesus was ‘inconvenienced’ for our sins.

    ~cheers


  • K Ration - i’ll refrain from being personal, even tho’ what you say actually wounds me deeply.
    The reason this is a sacrifice is that Jesus was already seated at the “right hand of God”. He came to earth in order to die for our sins. The fact that he was resurrected and returned to heaven shortly after does not make the punishment that he took a mere inconvenience.
    No, a few extra minutes in traffic is an inconvenience. A day of punishment at the hands of Roman soldiers concerned with the possibility of a rebellion and pissed off with the fact that they had to live in a backwater like Israel, being continually scourged, beaten and tormented, and crucified . . . i don’t know - if you feel that’s an inconvenience, well you must have far fewer pain receptors in your body than i.


  • I think the point K-Ration wanted to make was that each sacrifice has to be seen in relation.
    For us humans, a few extra minutes in traffic are about a few minutes of say 75 years. For Jesus being more-than-human, some 30ish years of human life and say one week of extreme pain is not so much compared to the eternity of his “conscious being”, “seated at the right hand of God”.
    So, apart from seeing things in relation, K-Ration takes into account that Jesus is more than mortal, as even in human form he has knowledge and a time frame of things that humans possibly only get to know after their death.


  • further, the concept of jesus being god’s son is confusing. what does it mean? if he already existed before he was born on earth, then who bore him? or did he spring forth from god, a la athena? or did he always exist, like god? or is he god? in which case, how is he seated at his right hand?


  • Well said F_alk.

    ~cheers


  • Janus1, thats the trinity…


  • I don’t recall Janus1 mentioning the Holy Spirit.

    That makes it even more confusing.

    ~cheers

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