Japan Tactic to help hold off america



  • How does japan make 70 by turn 4 with out going to war by turn 2 or 3

    To add to my last post.  You have 8 tt after turn 2 with 3 loaded transports and most all your navy at carolines.  This makes the US have to stay in sz 10 unless they want to get destroyed.  It also makes Anzac have to think about losing their capital.  It would be crazy to try and build transports at that point.  You have the one that probably went to Java to get the 4 ipcs on turn one but to buy more with Japan right there seems not smart to me.

    J3  Should have around 45 ipcs to spend.  Buy 2 more loaded transports for 28 ipcs and spend the rest on whatever you want.  I tend to buy another AC.

    Move half the caroline island navy down to phillipines and the other half (usually trying to include a couple of the AC’s in order to use planes on any islands that may have been stacked with more than 1 or 2 inf) down to Java with the 3 loaded transports.  You have to take into consideration where Anzac subs and navy may be, if any, and place navy accordingly.  You also have to account for the Combination of Anzac and India.  What can India send there?  BB, Cruiser, destroyer and some planes?  All of it can be accounted for.  Take the 5 loaded transports in sz 6 and send them to sz35 with half your navy.

    At this point america will probably move into hawaii because why wouldn’t they.

    Now your set up for a J4 attack.

    3 loaded transports in sz 42 (Java) with at least 2 AC loaded. 
    5 loaded transports in sz 35 (Phillipines).  Planes can come from Kwiangsi to fight the phillipines battle if necessary.  In our games its not usually necessary cause we fly the us fighter to Guam on turn one to get any stray transports.
    2 loaded transports in sz 6.

    2 in sz 6 can take out the Phillipines.  The 5 in sz 35 can go anywhere except sumatra (since you don’t own phillipines naval base yet).  The 3 in sz 42 can take Sumatra pretty easy unless Anzac/India put all available resources into it.  That would be pretty dumb since it would only stop japan 1 turn maybe from collecting the full DEI bonus.

    With the freedom you have at that point I am sure most people on this forum could figure out a way to get……

    Kwantung  3
    Malaya      3
    Sumatra    4
    Java        4
    Beorno    4
    Celebs      3
    Phillipines  2
    FIC          2

    25 ipc
    5 ipc  NO bonus
    26 ipc regular income
    2 ipc from russia
    8 if not more from china

    Japan can be at just under 70 ipcs on turn 4

    66 ipcs.  I didn’t say they would make 70.

    Just realized after typing this novel we kind of got off topic:)  Oh well, its been fun.



  • eleven I would really like to to see how this would turn out.  You should get on Triple A.



  • Turn 2, the US fleet can easily sit in hawaii without worry.



  • @ghr2:

    Turn 2, the US fleet can easily sit in hawaii without worry.

    Could also pull a block on the Japanese fleet at Carolines.



  • What is happening in China?  Normally people stack Szchewan and trade Yunnan every turn with Japan until they can’t trade it anymore or Japan can’t take it.

    Why does ANZAC need to worry again?  Not only could they block the Japanese fleet, but if Japan sent everything down there the US may have a free hand in the north (not to mention way out of position).

    What if India stacks Burma on turns 1 and 2 and then turn 3 attacks Yunnan, Shan State, etc?

    What if Russia attacks turn 3 as well as the UK?  You already said most of your fleet is at Caroline turn 2 and presumably many of your transports/army are in the south ready to hit the DEI.

    Seems like you may be losing the war in Asia while you set up your turn 4 attack.



  • Turn 2, the US fleet can easily sit in hawaii without worry.

    They could if they wanted to risk a fight against Japan.  All depends on the purchases of US.  If you leave a navy at Hawaii that I thought I could wipe out then I would probably take it.   Either way it doesn’t matter if Japan doesn’t attack till turn 4. Â

    eleven I would really like to to see how this would turn out.  You should get on Triple A.

    You can call me jerk since its my first initial and last name, I won’t take offense.  As far as Triple A.  I put it on my computer and played against the AI (which was a joke) and, long story short, have had some computer issues since.  I would be an awful Triple A person anyways since I can really only play a couple hrs a day.  It takes a week at least for me and my buddy to finish games due to our schedules.

    Just keep in mind the island trick when you are the axis and see the problems it poses.  I didn’t mean for this thread to turn into a J4 strat guide.  I just wanted to tell people about this annoying axis move.



  • What is happening in China?  Normally people stack Szchewan and trade Yunnan every turn with Japan until they can’t trade it anymore or Japan can’t take it.

    you push them back so they control only the last line of territories.  By turn three unless you get diced a whole bunch you can usually take out Szechwan.  Yunnan gets traded most every turn yes.

    What if India stacks Burma on turns 1 and 2 and then turn 3 attacks Yunnan, Shan State, etc?

    Thats great, more guys not in India.

    What if Russia attacks turn 3 as well as the UK?  You already said most of your fleet is at Caroline turn 2 and presumably many of your transports/army are in the south ready to hit the DEI.

    If they attack Manchuria then I will have 5 loaded transports available in sz 35.  If they attack Korea then they would have gotten really lucky on dice, plus if you put ten+ russians in Amur on turn 2, then I take whatever I need to on turn 3 to wipe out those russians.  Everything obviously changes after that.

    Why does ANZAC need to worry again?  Not only could they block the Japanese fleet, but if Japan sent everything down there the US may have a free hand in the north (not to mention way out of position).

    This is all very true.  It is 2 turns away from japan taking the capital.  They could though, so unless you are certain they won’t it seems like a bad idea to buy a bunch of navy that they could wipe out if they chose to.

    Again… I didn’t want this post to be a J4 strategy guide.  I just wanted it to be about the diversion tactic.  Cow is the master of Strategy Guides.  I will let him take care of those for you.  I am sure if he found the patience he could come up with a bitchin guide for a J4 attack.  He just loves war so much that he can’t get himself to do it.



  • SO what if less guys in india?  japan will not have the manpower to take it, and contesting yunnan/shan state robs japan of a landing spot for planes.



  • Japan would have some money turn 4, but the progress for an actual win, will be slow and agonizing with the strong anzac/india.  Eventually, Japan will be picked apart from all sides.



  • SO what if less guys in india?  japan will not have the manpower to take it, and contesting yunnan/shan state robs japan of a landing spot for planes.

    You don’t think 8 loaded transports, maybe 10 if everything went perfect, along with 8 planes (due to the 4 AC I would have) and 2 bombers wouldn’t be enough if UK took most of their guys to Yunnan?



  • considering japan would not have nearly that many loaded transports on india, yea.



  • @elevenjerk:

    SO what if less guys in india? � japan will not have the manpower to take it, and contesting yunnan/shan state robs japan of a landing spot for planes.

    You don’t think 8 loaded transports, maybe 10 if everything went perfect, along with 8 planes (due to the 4 AC I would have) and 2 bombers wouldn’t be enough if UK took most of their guys to Yunnan?

    If you sent all of that to India (especially all 4 carriers), than ANZAC will be able to take some DEI and the US will be virtually unopposed in the Pacific (they will have 2-3 carriers of their own).

    Also-The UK and France have a DD each in the Indian ocean that can block any attempt on India for at least a turn.


  • Customizer

    Commenting on the Aleutian Islands tactic, I have seen it work before. It does depend on the playing style of your US/Allied player.
    A little while back, our group was playing a game of Global 40. I was Germany and my buddy was Japan. He sent a transport with a destroyer and 2 infantry and took the Aleutians. The US player realized he would lose his NO and just like elevenjerk said, he sent 2 transports – 1 with 2 inf from Hawaii, 1 with inf/art from W US – along with a cruiser and destroyer to take out the Japanese destroyer and his fighter and tac along with the carrier from SZ 10 to take it back.
    The Japanese destroyer hit the US destroyer so the end result was the US had it’s carrier, fighter, tac, cruiser and 2 transports way up there in SZ 8. Japan built some subs and sent 3 of them after the US ships. They killed the cruiser and the carrier although lucky rolls by the carrier meant that 2 subs were lost. However, now the US just lost it’s carrier, a cruiser, a destroyer and 2 transports with a fighter and a tac stranded in the Aleutians along with 2 infantry and an artillery. The US had to build a new carrier and 2 new transports to go up and get those men and artillery.
    It was a seemingly minor inconvenience but it cost the US roughly 3 rounds that they could have been doing something more meaningful against Japan with those assets.
    In this game, I think it allowed Japan more time to stomp China and deal with India and ANZAC fleets.



  • @knp7765:

    Commenting on the Aleutian Islands tactic, I have seen it work before. It does depend on the playing style of your US/Allied player.
    A little while back, our group was playing a game of Global 40. I was Germany and my buddy was Japan. He sent a transport with a destroyer and 2 infantry and took the Aleutians. The US player realized he would lose his NO and just like elevenjerk said, he sent 2 transports – 1 with 2 inf from Hawaii, 1 with inf/art from W US – along with a cruiser and destroyer to take out the Japanese destroyer and his fighter and tac along with the carrier from SZ 10 to take it back.
    The Japanese destroyer hit the US destroyer so the end result was the US had it’s carrier, fighter, tac, cruiser and 2 transports way up there in SZ 8. Japan built some subs and sent 3 of them after the US ships. They killed the cruiser and the carrier although lucky rolls by the carrier meant that 2 subs were lost. However, now the US just lost it’s carrier, a cruiser, a destroyer and 2 transports with a fighter and a tac stranded in the Aleutians along with 2 infantry and an artillery. The US had to build a new carrier and 2 new transports to go up and get those men and artillery.
    It was a seemingly minor inconvenience but it cost the US roughly 3 rounds that they could have been doing something more meaningful against Japan with those assets.
    In this game, I think it allowed Japan more time to stomp China and deal with India and ANZAC fleets.

    I don’t disagree that it can be a pain in the butt for the US, I just question the use of those forces by the Japanese when land troops are usually badly needed elsewhere.  Perhaps if the land war in Asia is already won?  As the US I don’t think I would take the Aleutians back if the Japanese could kill my fleet.



  • If you sent all of that to India (especially all 4 carriers), than ANZAC will be able to take some DEI and the US will be virtually unopposed in the Pacific (they will have 2-3 carriers of their own).

    Also-The UK and France have a DD each in the Indian ocean that can block any attempt on India for at least a turn.

    Thats fine.  Not even necessary to take Calcutta.  I’m just saying I have many options with all the transports.  With all the Islands.  I could hang out in the phillipine and pick of any anzac transports.  I could send guys to the mainland.  I could send guys back home.

    knp7765

    Glad to hear somebody else has seen this happen.  I think I have been misunderstood on the thread.  I never said that you do this move repeatedly.  I always like to have a transport at home with a couple guys ready.  US moves to queensland with no transports available at Hawaii or Western US than I plop a couple guys in Alaska or Aleutians depending on if they have units that can get to Alaska.  Another good time is if they have 2-3 transports in Hawaii poised to take over the carolines. It usually requires three transports cause I like to land a couple planes in there.  Thats when you put the guys in the islands or Alaska so they have to make a decision.  Carolines or 5 ipc bonus.  if they just send tt they won’t get Carolines for another couple turns.  If they leave it alone then they only make 65 -67 ipcs a turn.  This turned more into my J4 strat guide, which now I am thinking about putting in the time to make one.

    ghr2

    I think you were the one that wanted me to get on Triple A?  I have no idea how it works playing somebody else but I will see if it still comes up on my computer and if not I will reinstall it.  As long as you can be patient with my inexperience with the system I would be down for a game.



  • I get your point, but I am not sure how you can have a transport or two sitting at Japan and have a large Navy at the Philippines.  The US should be able to destroy your navy piecemeal if it is split up.  Usually after war with the US I cannot build any ships at Japan because my Navy is at Philippines and the US would just kill what I build.

    ANZAC would happily trade transports for islands.



  • I am not sure how you can have a transport or two sitting at Japan and have a large Navy at the Philippines

    You only need one transport.  3 planes in japan.  A destroyer or 2 in sz 6 and 1 destroyer in sz 16.  If US wants to commit its navy to sz 16 and all its planes to take out sz 6 stuff thats fine.  As the Allies it has never been good for me to set up shop in sz 16.  Too limited on what you can do next.  With Japans fleet at phillipines and most other planes in Kwangsi if the US moves to sz 6 it will surely be death.

    ANZAC would happily trade transports for islands.

    With Japan fleet at phillipines it would only be a trade once, twice at most.  Japan could easily take the island back while wiping out whatever Anzac navy has built leaving guys on Java.  Anzac only making 19 ipcs at the most (assuming they have New Guinea and snag Java). Anzac buys another transport and a destroyer maybe with an inf.  2 guys won’t be enough to take back the only island they can get to (Java).  If you don’t buy a destroyer, all Japan has to do is leave a destroyer by Java so your transport can’t get there.  Say you had purchased a MIC in Queensland.  Any naval unit you placed there could get taken out easy by the navy at the phillipines.

    All these options you bring up are very viable options for the Allies and they all work in certain situations.  I just disagree with the general notion that a J4 could never be successful.  I will work on a guide and try to make it half as good as the ones Cow puts out and maybe it will promote people trying it.  If not, no big deal:)



  • ANZAC threatening islands does force Japan into retaking them.  This in combination with India threatening SE Asia/Yunnan;  Russia threatening Manchuria/Korea; and the US threatening Japan and Carolines- create lots of places Japan needs to worry about, but may not be able to handle all at once- leaving weak points the Allies can exploit.

    The US doesn’t have to go into the Japan SZ hard, but if its only a DD and 3 fighters to get through, they could send some forces in there- they have had 3 full turns to build up a Pacific fleet, so it should be quite large.  Plus doubtful that Japan is going to attack wake island so the Philippine fighter could be there to join in the battle.  Anything to knock down some Japanese air.

    I would have to see your J4 in action, it just seems like Japan is in a marginally better position while the Allies are in a much better position, due to increased money/larger forces for India/ANZAC.

    One thing that I would agree with though- a J4 can be deadly in combination with a G1 attack on Russia.  US has to wait 3 whole turns to be able to help the UK out.  Especially if Japan attacks Russia early- they can hit Russia in the pocketbook quickly.



  • I am going to post a J4 strat soon.  When I feel like typing out a novel:)

    Take a peek at that.  There will be tons of what ifs… but it does show how you can knock china down by the end of turn 3.

    The allies can really dictate a lot of it as well.
    If Russia makes themselves available turn 2 or 3 then you probably take them out.  If US leaves navy available to take after turn 1 then the whole thing changes.  If Anzac doesn’t protect at all then on turn 3 you can make them pay.  If India attacks in order to restore yunnan to the allies then japan has a bunch of available transports to take islands with no fear of the US for another turn or 2.

    Look for the thread and you can rip it apart on that one:)



  • @elevenjerk:

    I am going to post a J4 strat soon.  When I feel like typing out a novel:)

    Take a peek at that.  There will be tons of what ifs… but it does show how you can knock china down by the end of turn 3.

    The allies can really dictate a lot of it as well.
    If Russia makes themselves available turn 2 or 3 then you probably take them out.  If US leaves navy available to take after turn 1 then the whole thing changes.  If Anzac doesn’t protect at all then on turn 3 you can make them pay.  If India attacks in order to restore yunnan to the allies then japan has a bunch of available transports to take islands with no fear of the US for another turn or 2.

    Look for the thread and you can rip it apart on that one:)

    Not trying to rip you apart, just posing questions that you may not have thought about.  :evil:


  • '13

    Really like the Aluetian strat, given the right circumstaces.  As for your J4 strat, keep in mind that UK/Anzac will almost surely attack rnd 3 as there’s virtually no drawback.



  • except for sure death 😄

    Yea, thats generally what happens but by that point it usually doesn’t mean much.  I can usually take away the bonuses for Anzac and UK if they attack and US still can’t do anything till turn 4.  It actually helps in taking the islands over without spreading very thin.  In the perfect scenario, UK would have to attack on turn 2 in order to hold the road.  If they do then they are really in trouble.  If they don’t you can land most of your air force in Yunnan and its all over but the crying for Calcutta.



  • Really like the Aluetian strat

    Thanks for the compliment by the way.  I will be posting my J4 strat pretty soon. I believe it will garner much debate.  Ill give you a preview though.  At the end of turn 3 Japan will have….

    2 AC loaded, 2 BB, 1 CV, 1 DD, 2 TT loaded with 2 inf and 2 art in sz 42
    1 AC loaded, 1 CV, 1 DD, 4 TT loaded with 6 inf and 2 art in sz 35
    3 TT loaded in sz 6 as well

    That should be able to cover any attacks from anybody and still take isands on turn 4 possibly all income (Malaya,Kwantung,Shan,FIC)



  • I really feel like you should test this strategy on experienced players before you assume its viable



  • @ghr2:

    I really feel like you should test this strategy on experienced players before you assume its viable

    Agreed.


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