We had one guy on these forums do a mock trial of the first turn using a fan made replica of the board and he bought an extra cruiser on G1 and knocked out the British navy easily on the first turn. So yes, it can be done and probably will be done often enough. Perhaps that is why the French have a very good starting navy, so that they can contest the Atlantic with the Germans (at the xpense of leaving the Med. a free for all amongst the weaker powers.)
We had one guy on these forums do a mock trial of the first turn using a fan made replica of the board and he bought an extra cruiser on G1 and knocked out the British navy easily on the first turn. So yes, it can be done and probably will be done often enough. Perhaps that is why the French have a very good starting navy, so that they can contest the Atlantic with the Germans (at the xpense of leaving the Med. a free for all amongst the weaker powers.)
I think with the starting UK navy in India and the Italian navy in the Med, the Allies can hold it down, especially with aggressive play against the Ottoman (they won’t be building any ships…)
Therefore you have the French to help the British in dealing with the German High Seas Fleet.
My thoughts as well basically, by free for all in the Med I simply assume it means no naval offensive will actually take place without a major powers navy to shake things up.
But while I do think it will become a good starting to move for Germany to take out the fleet, I don’t see blockading Britian a viable long term strat for the CP. If you take out their fleet, Britian can’t really do anything with her home army, so she will simply have all that money to spend on ships and a few Indian troops. And France will be brining up her fleet. By turn 2 the pressure needed to maintain any sort of surface blockade will be immense at a time when the German player should be funneling units into the ground war.
The uk can build 2 cruisers and a battleship and move over the Canadian cruiser on UK 1 and have a pretty good fleet in sz 8.
The uk can build 2 cruisers and a battleship and move over the Canadian cruiser on UK 1 and have a pretty good fleet in sz 8.
Yeah, don’t forget, Britain can build ships in both sea zone 8 and 9. And, of course, don’t forget about the mines. Still, forcing Britain to buy more ships can’t be a bad move.
If you don’t hit their fleet G1 they can still buy all fleet and have unquestioned naval superiority in the north Atlantic for the rest of the game.
If all you do is kill the Canadians then the UK can have 4 cruisers and 2 battleships in mined waters and pretty much be invulnerable for the rest of the game
Also means the US won’t need to buy surface vessels because the UK can protect the transports.
I honestly don’t see a reason not to sink the British fleet on turn one. It’s unlikely you are going to be able to ever get odds like that again, it forces the british to spend an entire turn buying naval units for the western theater, and in general has no negatives, as it’s unlikely you will have the money to add to your fleet anytime soon, and their ability to defend from a british amphib attack will be small at best.
The negative is that when the UK rebuilds it can build up a big fleet, sail into SZ 11 and dump dudes wherever it pleases.
The German surface fleet in mined waters makes that a bad idea.
There’s little stopping it from doing that in the first place. 3 or 4 sub buys of it’s own, brining the Canadian fleet over and with the possibility of using the French as a first wave, and if the British REALLY want to land somewhere, not sure they can be stopped from the sea.
When soloing a couple of turns last night for the first time, I tried the all out German naval assault on the British navy. I sent the Home Fleet and 2 submarines against Scapa Flow (sea zone 9) and sent 2 submarines against the Canadian navy (sea zone 2).
Sea Zone 9: I lost 2 ships to mines and then the British and German fleets destroyed each other, leaving a lone British transport.
Sea Zone 2: Wilfrid Laurier’s Royal Canadian Navy Cruiser sunk both of my submarines before slipping beneath the waves, brought down by a slow moving torpedo. Once again, a lone transport calmly rode the waves.
So, my all out German assault on the British navy resulted in the wholesale destruction of the German navy. Thus, the British didn’t have to spend any money on warships, only more transports to bring troops to the front faster.
On the plus side for the Germans, a couple of amphibious assaults on Belgium by the French and British resulted in high casualties as the German shore batteries obliterated whole divisions. Artillery rolling at 3 or less at troops coming ashore helps make up for CP naval weakness (or, in my case, naval non-existence).
The German fleet’s survival is probably paramount to its winning the war, so I think we need to find a way to keep it alive.
I lost mine on G4 to a French and UK one two. Russia(not needed)would have been the three!
Once that happens Germany needs to place units in Kiel every turn and must signal the end of any victory hopes.
It might be that the disparity in starting fleet numbers is too large for the CPs to overcome.
This game is like a conveyor belt: once broken, or you let up, you cannot get back on.
If Germany is building fleet to counter UK, France who does not need any more, can continue to churn out 7-10 units a turn. They will survive.
I don’t know that Germany has to keep up with the UK in terms of fleet- why not hide in the German minefield and slowly build up? Would the UK attack you with just a slightly larger fleet going through mines? If the battle turned out badly for the British than the Germany fleet could molest the Allied fleets unhindered.
Perhaps a ‘fleet in being’ is better for Germany?
IIRC, the subs that start closer to canada, if they are to attack the main Royal Navy force, would have to roll two sets of mines, correct? I can’t remember offhand the Naval base situation.
Yes, at the end of the movement you roll for each enemy minefield passed through or into.
It seems very possible that Germany could destroy the entire Atlantic UK fleet on G1. SZ 2:2 Subs vs 1 Cruiser SZ9:1 Battleship, 2 Cruisers, 2 Subs vs 1 Battleship, 2 Cruisers, and 5 mine rolls.
Risky but the reward makes it very temping.
Could happen if the mines miss…
Our first game I was Germany and took two subs at the Canadian fleet. It went 2 rounds, and I missed em both, and he hit both rounds with his cruiser (both subs sunk, no hits?). I also took everything else at the UK home fleet. This battle fared much better for me. He missed w/mines, and I killed his fleet only losing 1 sub, and ding on my bb.
2nd game the Germans did the same thing. The Canadian fleet was sunk w/o losing a sub. The UK home fleet was also sunk, but only a German damaged bb survived. The French played clean up.
I think that the Germans need to hit both UK fleets, and I would do it again. This forces the French fleet to head to the Atlantic. The Brits generally keep the India bb near India to get bombardment vs Turks. That really only leaves Italy (who doesn’t make much income) and probably the Brit cruiser in sz17. If you build some ships w/Austria turn 2 you might get out of your port (maybe hit the Italians?) and have a chance to merge w/Turks?
I didn’t attack the UK fleet on G1, but will in my second game.
I thought It was not worth the risk, instead bought two subs to replace the Canadian ones, but never got to use them offensively.
I will lose my game as the CPs, so need to try a different G1.
@wittmann:
I didn’t attack the UK fleet on G1, but will in my second game.
I thought It was not worth the risk, instead bought two subs to replace the Canadian ones, but never got to use them offensively.
I will lose my game as the CPs, so need to try a different G1.
I’m starting to think that the only Naval attack Germany does is the two submarines at Canadian fleet. The rest of the German navy sits at home while I slowly build it up with a ship/turn. The UK will have to keep pace or risk losing at Jutland - Plus for every submarine Germany buys, the UK may have to buy 2 ships because of the mine threat.
If you lose the German fleet too early (like round 1) due to bad rolls (or good British mine/ship rolling), than the Allies don’t have to build any fleet and the game just got a lot harder for the CPs…
Hi BJCard. I thought the best policy was to wait in Port and await a foolish UK attack. I think I planned to buy a Sub(and Fighter) a turn, thinking my extra revenue would allow it.
I bought Subs for the first two turns only.
Moscow sucked in my units and over aggression on the Western Front and a greedy UK put paid to that.
I agree that failing to eliminate the UK fleet on G1(and it could happen)spells the end of Germany’s Imperial ambitions.
Getting the CPs right is going to take time.,
