Bewitched, Bothered, Billy-Goated



  • That’s pretty funny.
    Of course F_alk, we have the benefit of a 3rd party perspective. Most people on this board have actually bought the Bush party line about what’s going on in Iraq . . . .


  • About what’s going on in Iraq, I haven’t gotten up there yet, so I couldn’t tell you. About the war in the first place, never bought that either. But then again, there wasn’t a whole lot that could have been done about it anyway.


  • One of my friends has a brother serving their right now, and he says the situation there isnt as bad as we think. Most places have power and water back, including places that didnt have power before. He also says that most iraqis are glad the americans are there, but want to get back to normal life ASAP. I’ll talk to Ray tomorrow for some more info.


  • That sounds like the brother had sent a letter to the local newspaper cough cough


  • @F_alk:

    That sounds like the brother had sent a letter to the local newspaper cough cough

    now F_alk,
    just because he’s a gun-lover doesn’t make him a total dweeb. Maybe his brother is on to something . . . afterall, i havn’t heard that it’s a complete and total hole there . . . .


  • His friend’s brother… that starts to become a news “around too many corner” (missing the expression, i just translated literally… hope it’s clear what i mean).
    And the things mentioned what that brother said are just like the things that have appeared on those pre-printed letters which were sent to the newsletters, some even without the soldier knowing he sent it.

  • '19 Moderator

    Well I have a friend who reciently, about 2 years ago, got out of the army, where he was in a special opps unit. He joined the national guard and got a regular job as a civilian. When the Iraq conflict started he was activated and sent there. Now they are reconstructing his face in an army hospital. I am sure he dosn’t think it is so great over there.

    Just thought I would mention that since we’re talking about friends. :-?

  • '19 Moderator

    @F_alk:

    His friend’s brother… that starts to become a news “around too many corner” (missing the expression, i just translated literally… hope it’s clear what i mean).

    In english that would be something like “passed through too many hands”
    or “he said she said” or my “uncles friends sisters nephews cousins friend”

    Not that I am agreeing with Falk, I just thought that I would clarify what he was saying.


  • my mistake - i missed the “my friend’s” bit.
    Yup, this is how every urban legend gets off the ground. “my friend’s brother”, "my friend’s friend - she owned a dog named Skippy . . . "
    nevermind.


  • The Kay Report clearly state there were WMD programs.

    In an American Court conspiracy to commit X, typically carries the
    same weight as committing X.

    Therefore, if there are miles of documents and witness testimony saying that we were working on WMD’s, you got WMD’s. This isn’t a very difficult
    thing to believe. The report indicates there is still a bunch of documents to sift thru (and asked additional resources -read as $$$) to go through
    it all.


  • @dezrtfish:

    Well I have a friend who reciently, about 2 years ago, got out of the army, where he was in a special opps unit. He joined the national guard and got a regular job as a civilian. When the Iraq conflict started he was activated and sent there. Now they are reconstructing his face in an army hospital. I am sure he dosn’t think it is so great over there.

    Just thought I would mention that since we’re talking about friends. :-?

    No, but that’s a skewed viewpoint. He’s obviously going to have a negative attitude compared to more objective viewpoints. Objective viewpoints is what we’re missing from the media’s coverage of the Iraq war.

    In an American Court conspiracy to commit X, typically carries the
    same weight as committing X.

    Therefore, if there are miles of documents and witness testimony saying that we were working on WMD’s, you got WMD’s. This isn’t a very difficult
    thing to believe. The report indicates there is still a bunch of documents to sift thru (and asked additional resources -read as $$$) to go through
    it all.

    This is a VERY legit point sherman, good job.


  • Dezrt, thanks for the clarification.

    D:S, i agree, we are in desperate need of bojective data. And that includes nothing skewed by propaganda, or “embedding” journalists.

    Sherman, D:S…. why do you talk about how your national legal system works, hen we talk about an international affair?
    That would be same as if i said all americans are criminals, as they own guns, which is illegal in country. This again was you displaying what i ten to call “USie arrogance”. My advice: Travel and see that the world runs differently at different places!


  • for clarification purposes, Falk and/or CC, and really anyone else that wants to, what are your specific objections to the War in Iraq? what specifically do you have against it?


  • It is illegal, a violation of international law. Thus, the US are just a rogue state, with enough power to bully everyone into acceptance.
    The US are by no means the “good hegemon”, but just a undemocratic oppressor (internationally).
    In other words, a metaphoric comparison:
    Assuem you a citizen of a (very, countable few) citizens, who is acused of something. Now, this suspects uses legal loopholes in the legal system to prolong the trial. The strongest citizen, instead on focussing on proving the guilt, first brings up a lot of lies and faked evidence, then decides it all takes too long and kills that suspect in an act of “lynch justice”.
    Not only the lies are bad, not only that the bully is strong enough that noone dares to accuse him of murder afterwards… worst is that the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” has been totally ignored.


  • that cant be all though falk, because you (and clearly your government, along with others) were opposed to the IDEA of going to war, that is, before the US had actually done so, becoming a “rogue” state in your opinion. so what was your opposition to the war?


  • @F_alk:

    It is illegal.

    Well, I have to disagree with this. I believe (as does the US) that Resolution 1441 gave us the authority we needed to conduct the war against Iraq. As per the following line of the resolution:

    Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area.

    Now, not only does the above part authorize us use all necessary means to enforce the resolutions, but it goes into further detail about the fact that Iraq is in actual violation:

    1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq’s failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991)

    2. Decides, while acknowledging paragraph 1 above, to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under relevant resolutions of the Council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the disarmament process established by resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent resolutions of the Council

    Note: We gave him the last chance to comply…

    3. Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material;

    Note: Iraq ommitted information about it’s WMD programs…

    4. Decides that false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq’s obligations and will be reported to the Council for assessment in accordance with paragraphs 11 and 12 below.

    Note: See above comment…

    5. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations.

    Well, I don’t expect to convince you F_alk, but at least you can see where I’m coming from. My point is, you can only give someone so many “warnings” before your threats become meaningless.


  • what are your sources for this info?

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