• Do transports have to roll against minefields as well?  That could make amphibious assaults a LOT more difficult if you could potentially lose several land units after committing to an attack…


  • That would make the game a lot more interesting. I think it would go well with the artillery first strike rule. They should have really made some kind of coastal gun rule for artillery firing on ships.


  • @Auztria:

    They should have really made some kind of coastal gun rule for artillery firing on ships.

    Agreed!  Like in D-Day.  House rule time.

    I would assume TT would be subject to Minefields like any other ship.  Not very logical if they’re not.


  • All we have to go on (so far) is Larry’s Imperial Germany post:

    Any enemy ship that moves into or through such a sea zone may strike a mine. One die is rolled for each enemy ship that has moved into such a sea zone. Each ship will be called out one at a time, and one die is rolled. A roll of 1 will mean the removal of the ship (except dreadnoughts, which need two hits). This combination of enemy ships and mine fields can be very intimidating, but it can be overcome. Whether to attempt such an operation will be up to you.

    A strict interpretation would mean every ship, including transports and submarines, but perhaps the final wording will limit it to surface ships. If this is true, than there is no need for an extra rule for coastal artillery to fire at transports before they unload (at least for landings against a territory with a naval base).

  • Customizer

    I would think a transport unloading in an enemy NB area has to undergo the mine roll, but units coming assure still have to face the unreturned artillery fire.

    Perhaps infantry units on transports can be rescued if there is spare transport space; would it be worth taking along an extra transport to pick up survivors?


  • One at a time implies transports.


  • @Flashman:

    I would think a transport unloading in an enemy NB area has to undergo the mine roll, but units coming assure still have to face the unreturned artillery fire.

    I agree with you Flashman. I meant to refer to Auztria’s proposed house rule that coastal guns would fire on enemy ships before an amphibious landing.

    @Flashman:

    Perhaps infantry units on transports can be rescued if there is spare transport space; would it be worth taking along an extra transport to pick up survivors?

    Interesting notion, I assume no CP player would ever agree to it, though.  😉


  • Coastal artillery already get to fire at the troops who are landing, we cant have them fire at the transports too.


  • I agree w/oz that pre-empt art strikes fire at troops (so shouldn’t get to also fire at ships), plus the art also get to fire in the land battle too. The troops would have to land on the beaches first though, so I also think that transports (and subs) will be subject to mines as well and each ship is rolled for individually (as we know). The way I would look at it is mines would more or less be a combo of the waters being mined, and shore defenses firing off the coast. Then you add in coastal bombardment from ships and I like how all these mechanics feel. Amphibs just got much more realistic if you ask me.

    I’m thinking about adopting some of this into G40. NB coming w/mines and being assigned to 1 sz. Maybe needing both a NB and IC to mobilize ships. Pre-empt art strikes vs amphibs, cruisers moving 3 spaces etc……would be fun to test.


  • @Flashman:

    Perhaps infantry units on transports can be rescued if there is spare transport space;

    No I dont think so.

    An infantry unit with its inherent att/def values represent an operational combat formation with heavy equipment and support coy’s, like horses, wagons etc.
    In every case real units had to be evacuated/rescued from shore to ships, like Narvik -40, Dunkirk -40 or Gallipollli -17, all heavy eqipement like mg’s, mortars, field artillery, ammo, tanks, trucks, horses etc had to be left onshore, and only the men was saved, scattered and in chaos, and no longer an operational combat formation with any combat value.
    Nice try, but……


  • @oztea:

    Coastal artillery already get to fire at the troops who are landing, we cant have them fire at the transports too.

    Totally agree.

    In both WWI and WWII it was very rare that coastal artillery sank ships, I can only think of Blucher. Usually it was the minefields that sank ships during amphibious assaults, and that goes for the Gallippoly campaign too. But as we all know from D-day, and the landings in the Pacific, units with heavy weapons like artillery and mg’s did kill a lot of assaulting infantry before they got onshore.

    So I think Larry got the rules right this time. Minefields kill the ships, and artillery kill the assaulting infantry. This also balance it nicely out with Battleships shore bombardment, just like in the real war 🙂


  • I like that amphibious invasions will be costly….therefore, avoided.
    Much like the real war they were a rarity.


  • @oztea:

    I like that amphibious invasions will be costly….therefore, avoided.
    Much like the real war they were a rarity.

    In the real war you could only invade during summer and nice wheater. So if A&A had winter, spring, summer and fall turns, you could only invade every 4th turn. And it would be costly too, not what a game designer would want in a beer and pretzl game

  • Customizer

    Fair point, though I’ve had a rule in WWII versions that transports can evacuate retreating units from a coastal zone, though tanks, mechs and artillery must be reduced to mere infantry to simulate leaving heavy equipment behind.

    @Razor:

    @Flashman:

    Perhaps infantry units on transports can be rescued if there is spare transport space;

    No I dont think so.

    An infantry unit with its inherent att/def values represent an operational combat formation with heavy equipment and support coy’s, like horses, wagons etc.
    In every case real units had to be evacuated/rescued from shore to ships, like Narvik -40, Dunkirk -40 or Gallipollli -17, all heavy eqipement like mg’s, mortars, field artillery, ammo, tanks, trucks, horses etc had to be left onshore, and only the men was saved, scattered and in chaos, and no longer an operational combat formation with any combat value.
    Nice try, but……


  • Has anybody figured out a count of how many naval bases there are goin to be?just want to get a minefield count thanks

  • Customizer

    Just look at my map. I’ll have got some borders incorrect, but I’m pretty sure about the locations of the minefields I’ve placed.

    Don’t think the NBs are actually named on the map, but they might represent:

    Arkangel
    Petrograd/Kronstadt
    Rostov? (in Sevastopol…)

    Rostock/Kiel?
    Wilhelmshavn/Kiel?

    Cardiff?
    Harwich?

    Brest
    Toulon

    Ostia

    Pola

    Bandirma?

    New York?

    Note that these are compromises, naval bases and ship building centres were rarely the same places.

    Arkangel is a bit of a surprise, not least because it looks like Karelia therefore has two NBs.

    I wait to see how Kiel and its canal is represented.

    Don’t think NBs have a movement bonus this time, though you can only repair battleships in home ports (friendly?)


  • I would think that you can repair in friendly ports. The UK Med/Indian dreadnought would need to get to the Atlantic for repairs if not. It is more likely English BB’s could be repaired in Rome or S France. Same for the US BB’s repairing off the coast of England or France instead of returning to E US. Its not clear at this point if their is a cost related to repairs though, and it would be an allied advantage for the most part with more allied NB’s so I hope you have to roll a dice to determine repairs. The CP would have some opportunities to limp to friendly NB’s for repairs, but not many unless you can capture and use enemy NB’s for repairs (not new ship building)

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