IPCs



  • I just saw a picture of the new map (see the post ‘‘Preview 0’’), and it looks cool and all, but I’m having a hard time determining the different IPC-values around the map. How much does the one US tt gain, for example (very important)? Help from somebody with better eyesight than I is much appreciated. See ya! 😄 Â


  • '12

    I might need to see an eye doctor, too, but between the production chart in the Sahara and Larry Harris’ Reports from the Front I’ve deduced some numbers. Here’s what I’m thinking:

    -Italy starts with 14 IPCs
    -the Ottomans start with 16 IPCs 
    -the USA starts with 20 IPCs
    -France starts with 24 ICPs (as per Larry Harris)
    -Russia starts with 25 ICPs (as per Larry Harris)
    -Austria-Hungary starts with 26 IPCs (as per Larry Harris)
    -the UK with 30 IPCs.
    -Germany starts with 35 ICPs (as per Larry Harris)

    Yrs.,
    R.



  • My deduction was this:
    Italy - 14-15 IPC, (16-17 w/Albania)
    USA - 20 IPC
    UK - 25-30 IPC (26-31 w/Arabia)
    Germany - 35 IPC (Larry)
    France - 24 IPC, (32 w/Belgium, Portugal and their colonies) (Larry)
    Austria-Hungary - 26 IPC (Larry)
    Russia - 26 IPC, (30-31 w/Serbia & Romania) (Larry)
    Ottoman Empire - 15-16 IPC (18-19 w/Bulgaria)



  • So Russia and France get basically the same amount of IPC’s? Well this is news to me.



  • By what you said, the starting income for the Allies is 114 IPCs while 77 for the Axis, the difference being 37. It seems quite normal that the Allies at the start earn about 1,5 times as much as the Axis, but in this game I think it’s harder to conquer territories in a hurry, so the advantage for the Allies might be greater than usual.
    I’m glad that the US only earns 20 IPCs per turn, though, making it possible for them to land – after the initial invasion of course – merely one transport full of units per turn. That’s actually quite a weak performance right there! 
    😄


  • Customizer

    How the heck can you make out all those IPC values?

    Are we looking at the same picture?



  • We’re looking at the production chart located in the dessert.


  • '12

    @LinkandMarioman:

    By what you said, the starting income for the Allies is 114 IPCs while 77 for the Axis, the difference being 37. It seems quite normal that the Allies at the start earn about 1,5 times as much as the Axis, but in this game I think it�s harder to conquer territories in a hurry, so the advantage for the Allies might be greater than usual.
    I�m glad that the US only earns 20 IPCs per turn, though, making it possible for them to land � after the initial invasion of course � merely one transport full of units per turn. That�s actually quite a weak performance right there!  
    😄

    I imagine two other things: since the Central powers are on the offensive first and fighting on Entente land they’ll be able to “neutralize” the income of a lot of Entente income immediately. That should even the odd a bit, and quickly. Also, I have a feeling the USA might get a “war production bonus” the moment they declare war, as they do in other A&A games.

    Yrs.,
    R.

    PS. we now have confirmation that the UK starts at 30 IPCs. Thanks, Larry!



  • Yeah, about the Production Bonus - I hope it’s not real, cause it seems so unfair! I’ve always hated that bonus.  :x
    But, oh, nevermind.
    Also, it has been confirmed (I think, haha) that there are no NOs, and isn’t the US bonus usually an NO?


  • Customizer

    @LinkandMarioman:

    Yeah, about the Production Bonus - I hope it’s not real, cause it seems so unfair! I’ve always hated that bonus.  :x
    But, oh, nevermind.
    Also, it has been confirmed (I think, haha) that there are no NOs, and isn’t the US bonus usually an NO?

    Not to mention that there’s really no historical context for it. Even when they entered the war, the only thing the Americans contributed was manpower; they had to borrow tanks and machine guns from the French.



  • Agreed, there doesn’t appear to be any NO’s, and I hope the US doesn’t get any bump when it goes to war. I understand the US will enter the war about the 4th turn. The US getting 20 IPCs per turn from the start will mean it gets 60 IPCs to build with before it gets into the war, plus what they start with (that’s plenty IMO).

    Just wondering if the US will have any restrictions on where they can move their navy or transports to, like only next to US territories like in G40 (or so many spaces from Europe etc…). Don’t think they should be allowed to be on the French, or English coast with loaded transports ready to go into battle with the combined UK & French navies protecting them.


  • Customizer

    On top of all that America automatically enters on turn 4, way earlier than historically by any reasonable chronology, and even earlier if Germany goes for USW.

    Only a very few American “Liberty planes” (copies of British models) made it to the war right at the very end, while “Liberty tanks” (copies of British models) were produced too late to fight.

    Otherwise, all American artillery, steel helmets, planes and tanks were supplied by the UK & France. Basically, it was more economical to use the war industry already established in Europe than to set up new production in America.

    Give America the cash, but they have to buy their mechanical units from the Allies, upgrading US infantry units in France or Britain.



  • This is so blatant obvious, man. I tell you 99 % of all A&A copies are sold in America, so one way or other they just need to join US in the fight, historical correct or not



  • What we know (about IPCs) from Larry’s posts:

    1. Germany: 35
    2. Britain: 30
    3. Austria: 26
    4. Russia: 25
    5. France: 24
      If you look at the production chart (picture attached) you can see that the production chart corresponds with the values above, meaning that it portrays the set-up values. By looking closely, you can see the following:
      US: 20 OE: 16 Italy: 14
      Thusly, the starting income for each nation is:
    6. Germany: 35
    7. Britain: 30
    8. Austria: 26
    9. Russia: 25
    10. France: 24
    11. US: 20
    12. OE: 16
    13. Italy: 14
      Which makes the power-balance as follows:
    14. Allies: 113
    15. CPs: 77
      Italy is a bug waiting to be squished!!! 😄

    Udklip.PNG



  • Interesting that the US isn’t the ‘great savior’ in this game.  20 IPCs with little growth potential is a weak ally.



  • @BJCard:

    Interesting that the US isn’t the ‘great savior’ in this game.  20 IPCs with little growth potential is a weak ally.

    True, but being able to unleash at least 80 IPC worth of units on the Western Front (assuming they can make it across the Atlantic) on turn 4/5 is no bad thing. I think in this game the US’ biggest impact will be the arrival of the army it builds over the first 4 turns. The US player needs to use it wisely or the US won’t be much help. In AA1914, the AEF will have to do all its training at home, 'cause when it gets Over There, it’s going directly into battle.

    I wonder if declaring Unrestricted Submarine Warfare before turn 4 and then using German submarines to sink the US navy at every opportunity might not put off the US’ effective entry as the US player is forced to buy naval units, thereby starving the army of funds.

    Then again, the Royal Navy is also out there and those submarines won’t last forever . . .


  • Customizer

    Do you really think America is able to build units before it goes to war? That is completely unhistorical, America had little more than local militia in April 1917.

    My guess is that the reason for the very early American entry is precisely that it needs time after that to build up a meaningful force.



  • While I agree with you Flashman, I think it is highly unlikely that the US won’t be able to build units from turn 1.  With only 20 IPC’s to spend, and having to build a fleet to move its army, I won’t expect the US to have much of an impact past the first blow. 
    20 IPCs barely lets you build a transport + Infantry + (Fighter or Armor or Artillery) per turn, with no escorts.

    So, turn 4 - here the USA comes with 3-4 loaded transports that’s gonna hit France or Italy turn 6-7.



  • US purchases:
    Turn 1: 3 transports (then it has four and eight units to move). Saves two IPCs.
    Turn 2: 1 trans+2 art+1 plane.
    On the movement phase of the third turn, the boats embark, landing in Picardy/Piedmont (or wherever) on the fourth turn with 5 inf, 4 art and one plane. After that, they can land one loaded transport each turn or so. Not exactly a show of force, eh?
    :roll:


  • Customizer

    But in reality the AEF only made an impact in Europe in the Summer of 1918. It took them a long time to organize an army, ship it to France, equip it with British and French weaponry, and train it in modern warfare.

    In addition, General Pershing insisted that they only fight in American army divisions; he wasn’t having them just reinforce the Allied positions under foreign command.

    Its also totally unfair that America can build an army without the slightest chance for the CPs to attack it. Right up 'till early 1917, America was firmly isolationist and had no intention of spending money on a modern army.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Expeditionary_Forces


  • Customizer

    @Flashman:

    But in reality the AEF only made an impact in Europe in the Summer of 1918. It took them a long time to organize an army, ship it to France, equip it with British and French weaponry, and train it in modern warfare.

    In addition, General Pershing insisted that they only fight in American army divisions; he wasn’t having them just reinforce the Allied positions under foreign command.

    Its also totally unfair that America can build an army without the slightest chance for the CPs to attack it. Right up 'till early 1917, America was firmly isolationist and had no intention of spending money on a modern army.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Expeditionary_Forces

    Let’s not forget, however, that America had just fought a multi-theatre war against Spain not 20 years before, and intervened in the Mexican Revolution earlier that year. The idea that they were a completely backwards, non-modern power is a bit of an overstatement.

    True, by 1917 they hadn’t had the experience of 3 years of brutal modern combat that the Brits and the French had, and they certainly didn’t want to switch their heavy industry over to tank and weaponry production, but by the early 20th century, America was definitely a world player.


  • Customizer

    The Mexican expedition was a complete fiasco - they didn’t even find the enemy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Expedition

    This in part persuaded the Germans that America was not a serious threat, and prompted the decision to go for USW.

    If America had been building a modern army for three years the German’s attitude would’ve been very different.



  • America should at least be able to build a navy, she had a bitchin navy by the time she entered the war.



  • The US should just start with another transport and a cruiser but not be allowed to do anything until:

    Paris is attacked or contested.
    German land units occupy a territory on the British Isles or Canada.
    Germany has declared USW.

    OR roll a die at the beginning of US turn 3 onward. If the result is less than the current turn the allies have persuaded the US to enter the war/Zimmerman note intercepted/Lusitania Sunk, etc.

    (US enters on turn 3 on 2 or less. On turn 4 on 3 or less, turn 5, on 4 or less, etc. The US will be at war no later than turn 7)


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