The enemy of my enemy Was my friend Back Then


  • I recently pondered about the Tehran and Yalta conferences between FDR, Churchill and Stalin.

    I get the impression that the more freedom oriented western leaders did not project too much farther than the threat of Hitler in Europe.
    Stalin had a much farther reaching vision.
    FDR and Churchill did not govern much in the Post WWII era.

    It took Poland over 40 years to vote out the Russian Soviet styled Communism.
    An Romanian immigrant told me about the coal looted from her region sent on trains to Russia for decades, while miners in her town died of overwork and malnutrition.
    China was supported by the Flying tigers , and ammunition supplies from India .  Stalin provided artillery and advisers until the Nazi invasion.

    I find it alarming how communism grew so rapidly to replace the other repressive forms of government after WWII.

    Now the main issue to me was that most oppressive governments kept the problems within their own borders and  the escapees would take refuge in nearby better situation countries.

    Communism had a strange way of blocking the outward immigration, so each of the communized countries would become a prison with lots of pro-leadership propaganda (no longer news) for the fans and reeducation for the dissenters. 
    NOT only was it bad for the folks trapped in their newly communized countries, agents from the communist league would issue out agents to the other countries and organize resistance against the native government and/or leadership in their efforts to start pro communism revolutions.


  • All 3 were very friendly at Tehran,

    By Yalta , Churchill was giving hinted warnings to FDR about Stalin in the post war.

    FDR died before WWII ended.

    The newspapers were rather Pro communist (anti Shek (KMT)) when reporting about the following revolution in China.

    But our history classes reveal that the various kingdoms and monarchies were very much against communism leading up to WWI.


  • Many of our nations now hold some sort of election process.

    Communist leadership has rarely been good, and always intolerant of political opposition.
    They frequently get re-elected.
    These communist regimes around the world are almost the pinnacle example of Machiavianism.

    Hands that look so clean, so shiny, so respectable, after they wrote orders for such bloody deeds.

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17

    Last time I checked, communism was pretty much on its way out. Ever since 1989 or so.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    A common problem that I recognize, which leads down this road, is that people in general have lost their sense of self responsibility.

    Everyone seems to commonly believe that the government is the solution to all their ills, and that when something goes wrong - the government is to be blamed.

    This is turn, hands over more power to the government, because people want thier problems solved for them as opposed to solving thier problems themselves.  When you blame the government for your problems, you give the government the right to preside over those problems, and give up your right to self determination.

    And as easy as it is to believe that we defeated communism in 1989, talk to any communist Ex Pats, and they will tell you, the nations we live in today (Canada, Uk, USA,) In some ways are more interfering and controlling than communist states EVER were.

    The Old world problems in many ways, are still today’s problems. All the definitions and in some cases “methods” are just different now… for example we used to call it slavery.  Now we call it Debt.

    A better society should be about “Civil Responsibilities” in conjunction with “Civil Rights”.  Not one without the other…

    If individuals were more busy with governing themselves properly, we’d have less reason to hand over liberties to the government of the day.

  • 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16

    @Gargantua:

    A common problem that I recognize, which leads down this road, is that people in general have lost their sense of self responsibility.

    The Old world problems in many ways, are still today’s problems. All the definitions and in some cases “methods” are just different now… for example we used to call it slavery.  Now we call it Debt.

    You are on ,on something Aleposita!

    To me the Ex DDR (Easternpart of Germany) for Example ,was some sort of a Testing Area of how people react on certain circumstances. Sounds horrible but think about it. There was no gain for any side. Just a huge Prison.

    One thing Communism proved was how to keep lots of people in check.
    Nowa these days we got other names for being controlled so that nobody gets offended.
    Communisim seems to be dead now ,but the Spirit of it might dwell still arroud here and there.
    Depends on how you look at it.

    One Problem each Government has is that it is never able to reach out for a single Individual. 😞
    Hmm…

  • '17 '16 '15 '14 '12

    @Gargantua:

    A common problem that I recognize, which leads down this road, is that people in general have lost their sense of self responsibility.

    Everyone seems to commonly believe that the government is the solution to all their ills, and that when something goes wrong - the government is to be blamed.

    This is turn, hands over more power to the government, because people want thier problems solved for them as opposed to solving thier problems themselves.  When you blame the government for your problems, you give the government the right to preside over those problems, and give up your right to self determination.

    And as easy as it is to believe that we defeated communism in 1989, talk to any communist Ex Pats, and they will tell you, the nations we live in today (Canada, Uk, USA,) In some ways are more interfering and controlling than communist states EVER were.

    The Old world problems in many ways, are still today’s problems. All the definitions and in some cases “methods” are just different now… for example we used to call it slavery.  Now we call it Debt.

    A better society should be about “Civil Responsibilities” in conjunction with “Civil Rights”.  Not one without the other…

    If individuals were more busy with governing themselves properly, we’d have less reason to hand over liberties to the government of the day.

    Fascism today is not a matter for armies and secret police.  What we have now has been called “inverted totalitarianism” where the elites buy our CONSENT with welfare cheques, KFC, Bingo, and junky products from Walmart all made in China and all of it paid for with debt.  Debt is a form of slavery, not just for individuals but for whole countries.  We live in a surveillance state with no lines between government, military, industry, and mafia.  They get away with it because we all want to be a child forever.

  • '12

    It’s because we don’t speak Chinese……

    http://www.theworld.org/2011/10/future-tense-language/


  • After the Boston Marathon bombing, when word spread that the Russians notified our intelligence agencies, I was thinking :
    "Yeah , right, sure, whatever… "

    I had held paradigm that the Russian government wanted the USA to fall to communism.

    Russian support of our recent Middle East, Africa, and Central Asia expeditions have been tepid and secondary at best.

    They may share a commonality that Islamic militants are causing problems in their towns
    as they have done and attempted over here.

    Not sure if our intelligence staffers were also in the same old Cold war paradigm of general distrust towards the Russian agents.

    I mean , they did interview the older brother after some tips.

    And I assume the US State department would have raised a big international case on the Russians if they detained the older brother when he visited.

    The situation for our authorities is almost like Vietnam before our troops pulled out.

    There not much of a human way to tell who (Russians, Cypriots, Germans, French, Chinese, Mexicans, Canadians, Chicagoans, or Islamics) is just pretending to be your friend

    Last I checked , the Russians were moving towards totalitarianist Communism again w Putin.

    But then again , the Russians see an enemy in militant islamics, who hate the USA as the little satan, therefore, we are their friends again.


  • http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/51847893/#51847893

    “Prince Harry visits Arlington National Cemetery”

    Apparently, the young dude is a better friend to us than Putin.
    He is also demonstrating servanthood to his own nation better than many who are positionally leading ours.

    I recall his uncle was a chopper pilot in the Falklands war.  Y’know, the one that the folks understand is actually more capable than the bigger paycheck guy who will be writing out the orders.

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Moderator

    I would visit Arlington if I came over to America.
    Was in London on Tuesday and visited the Churchill War Rooms. I learnt the Chief of the Imperial Staff(May 40-Dec 41) FM Sir John Dill is buried there: a great honour for a non American.


  • @wittmann:

    I would visit Arlington if I came over to America.
    Was in London on Tuesday and visited the Churchill War Rooms. I learnt the Chief of the Imperial Staff(May 40-Dec 41) FM Sir John Dill is buried there: a great honour for a non American.

    I visited the Churchill War Rooms back in 2010- I thought it was amazing, so much so that I bought the abridged version of Churchill’s book ‘The Second World War’ in the gift shop - also very good.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Let us not forget that Russia has a long history of being invaded by Finland, Poland, Prussia, the Mongolians, etc.  To them, the border states like Poland, Romania, and Hungary were a way of buffering against further European incursion as the Europeans would first have to invade Poland, etc, before they could invade Russia, giving Russia time to prepare and mount a counter attack.

    Meanwhile England & France had a long history of just fighting within Europe and taking territory by annexing it which is why you have things like the Rhineland and Normandy being British then being French and Poland moving from being totally land locked in WW1 (or darn close) to being next to the Sea in WWII and then on.

    Different mindset, same thing.

    And let’s not go down the whole road of the west being freedom loving, because that implies the east is freedom hating.  Socialism was an experiment in trying to create more freedom by having everyone own everything and sharing equally.  It was great on paper, but as with all things, once you put humans in the mix, things get screwed up - even Capitalism which is why unions were formed, etc.    Sorry, I take the whole “freedom loving” thing a bit personal, it’s kind of a hot topic button for me.  Let’s just say Socialism vs Capitalism to represent the economic structure on which the two platforms operated?

    Socialism is different than Communism.  Communism has no political parties, no income strata, no personal ownership, etc.  So the blue jeans you have on today might be worn by someone else tomorrow, since they would be communal property.  There were some such enclaves here in the US in the 1960s.  Socialism allowed for personal ownership, it just required that those who owned much had to give much so that those who owned little could be given some by the state as well as from their employer.  Much how the proposals for work fare here in the states would work. (I am not getting into a political argument on the merits of workfare vs welfare, just pointing out the similarity between workfare and socialism.)

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Moderator

    BJCard: Someone gave me a book on Churchill; I will not read it.
    I do not think I have ever read a book on a politician. Did research him on line and know his history from other sources.
    the Rooms are well worth a visit, but entry is overpriced.


  • @wittmann:

    BJCard: Someone gave me a book on Churchill; I will not read it.
    I do not think I have ever read a book on a politician. Did research him on line and know his history from other sources.
    the Rooms are well worth a visit, but entry is overpriced.

    this is the book I’m talking about: http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Second_World_War.html?id=PdXCz3hYkK8C

    It gives great insight into the English side of WWII- a very refreshing read for this American who only hears about WWII from Pearl Harbor to V-J Day (i.e. not 1939-1941).

    Agreed on the price of entry to the War Rooms… I chalked it up to a tourist attraction in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Moderator

    Thank you BjCard. I had a look at that book review.
    I am in limbo at the moment book wise(often happens and I hate it). Am unsure of I wang to read WW2 of Civil War.
    I think I was up for the 1864 Eastern campaigns, but when I saw few were reading my latest posts I lost interest and did not pick up a book.
    Can’t get excited about a subject at the moment.
    Loving HerrKaleun’s Dutch 1940 posts.

Suggested Topics

I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

75
Online

15.1k
Users

35.9k
Topics

1.5m
Posts