Attacking neutrals when your still neutral?



  • Are you allowed to attack a neutral if you are not yet at war with anyone. Like could USA take over Brazil? And could Russia attack Finland?


  • '12

    No to both.



  • OK thanks, but could you explain why please?


  • 2017 2016 '13 '12

    @stroutqb22:

    OK thanks, but could you explain why please?

    It is written.


  • '12

    @stroutqb22:

    OK thanks, but could you explain why please?

    Not a problem…

    Europe 2e manual, page 15, the Powers not at war with one another box:
    When a power is not at war with anyone, it is neutral... ...a neutral power can't move land or air units into or through neutral territories.

    This blocks taking Brazil in non-combat movement.

    There are two different rules that in combination prevent Russia from just attacking Finland while still neutral.  Europe 2e manual, page 10:
    Unlike powers, war is never declared on neutral territories- they are simply attacked.

    Combine this with the fact that the Europe 2e manual, page 12, defines combat moves as for Powers at war only, and you discover that no neutral power can attack a neutral territory unless they are at war with another power (and thus no longer neutral), since the combat movement phase can only be done by powers at war, and it requires combat moves to attack a neutral.

    Russia is even more restricted than this.  On page 36 of the Europe 2e manual you see:
    ...if the Soviet Union is at war with Axis powers only on one map, it is still under the restrictions of being a neutral power on the other map.

    So being at war with Japan only doesn’t allow Russia to hit neutral Finland.  They can attack a neutral Finland only when at war with Germany or Italy.



  • I understand why the rules are what they are, but I think Russia should be able to attack neutrals any time they want like the Axis…  They did fight Finland before Germany.


  • 2016

    @BJCard:

    I understand why the rules are what they are, but I think Russia should be able to attack neutrals any time they want like the Axis…  They did fight Finland before Germany.

    The Winter War was concluded before the start of this game…

    But I’m starting to agree that Russia should be able to attack neutrals without it losing its Neutral Power status.
    Even though Finland will most likely be activated by Germany every game in the first round.


  • Customizer

    While it really doesn’t matter in terms of playing the game, Politically Russia could not attack Finland while still in a neutral state with Germany. Finland is a Pro-Axis leaning neutral which means they are close to being allied with Germany already. So, for Russia to attack them would almost be like Russia attacking a German territory.
    Although I’m not sure if Hitler would have attacked Russia because they attacked Finland. On the other hand, that could have given him a valid excuse for Barbarossa and perhaps made him not look quite as bad for invading Russia.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    We used to play an “Axis, Allies, Comintern” variant… where either of the 3 sides could actually pull an independant win.

    That solved all these kinds of issues.  I agree, Stalin should be able to invade whatever he likes.



  • @Gargantua:

    We used to play an “Axis, Allies, Comintern” variant… where either of the 3 sides could actually pull an independant win.

    That solved all these kinds of issues.  I agree, Stalin should be able to invade whatever he likes.

    And Allied units that enter original USSR territories should be “interned” - removed from the board with infantry (and infantry only) showing up back in their home capitals a couple rounds later in equal numbers to the units interned  😉


  • Customizer

    @kcdzim:

    And Allied units that enter original USSR territories should be “interned” - removed from the board with infantry (and infantry only) showing up back in their home capitals a couple rounds later in equal numbers to the units interned  😉

    In the original Europe game, they had a rule if UK or US planes landed in a Soviet territory with an IC, on the Russian Mobilize Units phase, they could be turned into Russian planes.



  • @knp7765:

    @kcdzim:

    And Allied units that enter original USSR territories should be “interned” - removed from the board with infantry (and infantry only) showing up back in their home capitals a couple rounds later in equal numbers to the units interned   😉

    In the original Europe game, they had a rule if UK or US planes landed in a Soviet territory with an IC, on the Russian Mobilize Units phase, they could be turned into Russian planes.

    I always wondered about something like this.  Considering the equipment lend lease that USA had with USSR I would of thought “gifting” units to Russia should be acheived in someway.  Of course who knows what that would do to balance.  I guess the the Archangel NO is their to represent the Lend-lease activities.


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