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Talk Tech Turkeys (1914)



  • So WWI was the war where technology like submarines, tanks, planes, grenades, radio, machine guns really came into their own. It is a shame that the OOB A&A 1914 rules wont reflect this, so lets brainstorm about tech.
    The current 2 tech charts system (12 techs) has been with A&A now since anneverary edition, so lets shoot for that.
    Tech Tokens as well have been with the game, and that may be the route to go.

    HOWEVER an alternative I propose is:
    A research die costs 1 IPC. You can buy as many as you like. Roll them. Whatever numbers you score are the techs you are allowed to choose to buy this turn for 4 IPCs.
    You may not buy more than one tech on each chart per turn.
    EXAMPLE: Germany decides to spend 3 IPCs on 3 research dice and rolls a 1, 3, and 6. It may then CHOOSE to pay 5 IPCs for any one of those techs.
    ALSO, if your research rolls are doubles that tech is half price, or if tripples you can pick that tech for free
    EXAMPLE: Germany buys 6 research dice, and rolls 1,2,2,4,4,4. It can pay 5 IPCs to unlock Tanks, OR 2 IPCs for Advanced Aircraft, � OR pick Observation Balloons for free

    1. Tanks - You may now build tanks
    2. Advanced Aircraft - Your aircraft become 2/2/3
    3. Chemical Warfare - Roll a die when attacking a territory, 1-3: remove that many enemy infantry; 4-6: No effect (One Territory Per Turn Only)
    4. Observation Balloons - In battles where no aircraft are present, one of your artillery counts as having air support.
    5. Advanced Submarines - If you opt to submerge, all enemy ships may only fire at ‘1’ when trying to sink you.
    6. Radio Communications - During combats where friendly forces are also in the contested zone, roll a die. That many friendly infantry may also participate in the attack

    (I am gladly accepting suggestions for more techs (perhaps we can get up to 12) so go nuts people)

    Here is a temporary 12 tech chart

    Air/Naval Techs
    1. Armed Transports - Your transports may fire defensively at 1
    2. Advanced Aeronautics - Your aircraft become 2/2/3
    3. Mine Detectors - Roll a die before your ships attack into a minefield: That many ships are immune to enemy mines.
    4. Observation Balloons - In battles where no aircraft are present, one of your artillery counts as having air support.
    5. Advanced Submarines - If you opt to submerge, all enemy ships may only fire at ‘1’ when trying to sink you.
    6. Sea Plane Tenders - Your planes may take off and land from transports (as long as they are the only unit it carries)

    Land/Economic Techs
    1. Tanks - As long as it is after the 3rd turn, you may build tanks.
    2. War Bonds - At the end of your turn roll two dice, collect the higher number as IPCs
    3. Chemical Warfare - Roll a die when attacking a territory, 1-3: remove that many enemy infantry; 4-6: No effect (One Territory Per Turn Only)
    4. Conscription - When you buy 3 Infantry, receive a 4th free.
    5. Radio Communications - During combats where friendly forces are also in the contested zone, roll a die. That many friendly infantry may also participate in the attack
    6. Advanced Railroads - Roll a die, that many of your infantry may move 3 spaces this turn. (not into attacks or into transports)


  • Customizer

    Armed Transports = Q Ships

    Railways should be standard, everyone had them - not a tech

    Observation balloons were standard - not a tech

    Aircraft should be able to go progressively up to 4-4 (fighters should only ever move 2); you have to buy each successive advance one at a time.

    Add:

    Bomber [cost 8]
    1(vs air)-2(vs ground)-6 (the movement can be “there and back”, i.e. you can bomb an area you’re not attacking by land, then land back in your own tt.) Bombing phase should be conducted after air superiority, before general combat.
    The effect of bombing an enemy capital should be moral rather than financial, though it can be converted into a cash value (factories emptied of workers after a bombing raid).
    Russia & Italy should start with this tech.

    Light tank
    2/3-1-1 (cost 5)
    Same in combat as heavies, but does not have the “cancel a hit” ability.

    Aircraft Carrier
    Can carry one fighter. This plane can then perform observation for accompanying warships (need to know exactly how naval battles work).

    Steel Helmets
    This needs to have two types of infantry piece per side to work. After acquiring the tech, all newly raised infantry have them as standard. You can upgrade existing infantry at 1 IPC each.
    Infantry without steel helmets defend on only 2, with them they defend on 3.

    I would also allow copying of techs. That is:

    After first building a tech, a power may pass the knowledge on to its allies, who can then each pay $5 to get it for themselves.

    After first having a tech you don’t possess used against you, you may copy the tech for your own use, after paying the standard $5 fee, then pass it on to your friends after you’ve built one.

    Through this system, the advantages of having a tech are reduced to just a couple of turns, after which you’re likely to see the enemy’s own version used against you. This prevents a cheesy “tech victory” against an opponent who was just unlucky never to roll a particularly useful tech.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    There are six technology categories: infantry, mechanized, air, naval, gas, and command.
    In cases where the unit has a changed attribute, this applies to all units that player has on board.

    Infantry technologies:
    1. Motorized Infantry – this allows infantry and storm troops to move 2 spaces instead of just 1 during non-combat movement.
    2. Storm Troops – this allows the production of storm troopers.

    Mechanized technologies:
    1. Tanks – this allows the production of tanks.
    2. Railway Artillery – this allows the production of railroad guns.

    Air technologies:
    1. Interrupter Gear – this allows fighters to attack and defend at a 2.
    2. Bombers – this allows the production of bombers.
    3. Heavy Bombers – after you have achieved bomber technology you have the capability to perform Strategic Bombing runs on enemy factories.
    4. Metal Aircraft – this allows fighters to hit on a 3 in aerial combat and allows them to intercept at sea and conduct attacks on ships. Germany gets this on turn 10, all others on turn 14.

    Naval technologies:
    1. Unrestricted Submarine Warfare – German submarines do double damage when in control of a sea zone with a convoy box.

    Gas technologies:
    1. Chlorine Gas – this allows the production of Chlorine gas.
    2. Mustard Gas – this allows the production of Mustard gas.
    3. Gas Masks – this protects infantry, storm troops, and cavalry from gas. 
    4. Gas Shells – this allows the delivery of gas by artillery.  This also allows the defender to use gas in defense.

    Command technologies:
    1. Offensive Coordination - this allows coordinated attacks by the allied players (except Russia).  Allied players are now allowed to attack as one.

    Some technologies explained:

    Offensive Coordination:
    Beginning on turn 12 the Doullens conference has proclaimed a commander-in-charge for the allied armies in the West.  This allows coordinated attacks by the allied players (except Russia).  Allied players are now allowed to attack as one and use each other’s transports. Remember, the allies take their turn together and prior to turn 12 they fight separately in combat thought they may perform all other turn functions together.


  • Customizer

    Do the CPs get a Unified Command (offensive coordination), or is that in place from the start?

    How can you have railway guns with no railways?

    Still think this metal aircraft thing is a myth.



  • http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LPl2TzUGYKA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLPl2TzUGYKA

    “Mechanized” infantry, anyone?  I mean, zombie Germans could DEFINITELY tilt the balance of power…

    😃


  • Customizer

    Mechanized infantry - you mean robomen; stormtroopers specially manufactured in Ludendorff’s secret underground lair.

    You don’t need mechanized infantry - troops moved by train.

    American Upgrade

    The US had no heavy weapons industry - all the steel helmets, artillery, planes and tanks used by the Americans in Europe were supplied by France and Britain, who also helped to train US troops.

    Therefore:

    American cannot manufacture tanks, planes or artillery.

    Instead

    At the start of its turn, America can buy the 3 heavy weapon types - place the appropriate units in the mob zone. The cost is the difference in unit price over infantry, so tanks and planes cost 3 IPCs, artillery 1 - payed to the bank.

    At the end of its turn the US can upgrade infantry units to the appropriate model.
    The units concerned must be in an uncontested land tt in or adjacent to London or Paris, and that capital must be allied held.

    If it is not possible to make an upgrade for lack of qualifying infantry, the purchased unit is lost with no refund.



  • Well my techs were kind of “larry simple” so the layman could use them.

    Should have expected you guys to crank the complication factor into overdrive.



  • Some people don’t have 15 old editions of A&A to go rooting through to get bombers and carriers and light tanks.

    Larry techs are just upgrades to the plastic you already have in the box.
    And even though everyone already had X or Y, when a tech says “advanced X” that means that power spent some time brainstorming a more efficient way of doing it or something.

    Advanced railroads might mean more capacity in cars, or better scheduling or something so you get a bonus. Since how everything moves already takes into account everyone had railroads, the rules already reflect you having them. Just like if “advanced farming” was a tech….we know everyone has farms, its just that yours got slightly better.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @oztea:

    1. Tanks - You may now build tanks

    The point about the game’s supplied tank pieces being viewed as a tech upgrade is a good one, since tanks historically did indeed only start being used about mid-way through the war.  By the same reasoning, however, I wonder if the game’s supplied destroyer pieces should be seen as a tech upgrade too, at least as far as their anti-submarine warfare capabilities are concerned.  Destroyers were originally vessels designed to defend big ships against torpedo boats, and they later became torpedo launchers in their own right…but their ability to function as ASW units only really emerged when the first effective depth charges were deployed for service, which didn’t happen until early 1916.


  • Customizer

    @Flashman:

    I would also allow copying of techs. That is:

    After first building a tech, a power may pass the knowledge on to its allies, who can then each pay $5 to get it for themselves.

    After first having a tech you don’t possess used against you, you may copy the tech for your own use, after paying the standard $5 fee, then pass it on to your friends after you’ve built one.

    Through this system, the advantages of having a tech are reduced to just a couple of turns, after which you’re likely to see the enemy’s own version used against you. This prevents a cheesy “tech victory” against an opponent who was just unlucky never to roll a particularly useful tech.

    I like this idea. This is something that isn’t really well reflected in the existing A&A tech systems; as innovations rolled out to the battlefield, they were copied and shared fairly quickly among the powers.

    A way you could simplify things is to have a sort of time limit before a tech became common knowledge. For instance, on the first turn the tech is used, only the nation that researched it can use it; on the second turn, their allies can purchase it; on the third turn, it becomes common knowledge and everyone can benefit from it.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Do the CPs get a Unified Command (offensive coordination), or is that in place from the start?

    No they can defend together, but attack separately.

    How can you have railway guns with no railways?

    Because it is assumed that every area has railways, so no need to destroy the map marking them. This is not a “train game”


  • Customizer

    No, but it should be because it was a train war.

    I would have said that the Central Powers (or at any rate Germany and Austria) were at least as well coordinated as the Allies, especially after the Hindenburg-Ludendorff partnership took command.


  • Customizer

    Au Contraire, Blackadder.

    If railroads were taken into account in how everything moves then it would take one turn to move units from the Eastern to the Western front. It took approximately 3 weeks for Germany to move over a million men to the west after the Russian treaty. Under present rules this task takes SEVEN TURNS.

    Germany should not have all those units “in transit” for turn after turn. The whole point of why this war was fought in the way it was is down to the fact that railways allowed nations to massively reinforce their fronts before the enemy could exploit any advantage.

    @oztea:

    Advanced railroads might mean more capacity in cars, or better scheduling or something so you get a bonus. Since how everything moves already takes into account everyone had railroads, the rules already reflect you having them. Just like if “advanced farming” was a tech….we know everyone has farms, its just that yours got slightly better.



  • Well from a standpoint of railroads, it would be feasible, and SIMPLE to allot each power STRATEGIC REDEPLOYMENT POINTS. Guess how many you have? As many IPCs as your capital is worth.

    So lets say berlin is worth 8 IPCs.
    8 units can move freely with trains, from the capital, amongst interconnected friendly territory (with an IPC value).



  • I you want trains make some units move faster….no more plastic, or cardboard, and tailor it to each factions industrial capacity (their capital’s IPC value is a good one)


  • Customizer

    @oztea:

    Well from a standpoint of railroads, it would be feasible, and SIMPLE to allot each power STRATEGIC REDEPLOYMENT POINTS. Guess how many you have? As many IPCs as your capital is worth.

    So lets say berlin is worth 8 IPCs.
    8 units can move freely with trains, from the capital, amongst interconnected friendly territory (with an IPC value).

    Might be a good compromise. Although I’d like to see the value change, instead of a static number like the capital’s IPC value. Maybe a percentage of your total IPC income, so that as your empire grows, so too do your railroad capabilities.



  • Half of your current IPCs?
    1/4th?

    I’m not going to take a sharpie to my board and draw all over it so we need alternatives. Alternatives that include changing how units that come in the box move.
    If you want rules everyone can use, well….everyone might not have blockhouses or tokens, or copies of AA1942 to plunder for bombers and destroyers.
    Larry didn’t write Alpha +3 and say “well, break open your copy of revised and get some pieces out of that”

    Frankly, the whole issue of German Divisions going back to France as Russia surrendered could be settled with a NATIONAL ADVANTAGE rather than a rule for everybody.
    Or even just a one time special rule.
    “if Russia surrenders roll two dice: Germany may move that units from any Russian territories to Berlin each turn”

    I guess its time to work on some national advantages…i’ll get cracking.


  • Customizer

    @oztea:

    Half of your current IPCs?
    1/4th?

    Not sure, probably have to play it and get a feel for what a half or a quarter would feel like.

    @oztea:

    Frankly, the whole issue of German Divisions going back to France as Russia surrendered could be settled with a NATIONAL ADVANTAGE rather than a rule for everybody.
    Or even just a one time special rule.
    “if Russia surrenders roll two dice: Germany may move that units from any Russian territories to Berlin each turn”

    I guess its time to work on some national advantages……i’ll get cracking.

    I disagree. As Flashman pointed out, moving troops by rail was a hallmark of this era. Both sides of the conflict were transporting massive amounts of manpower to the front by rail, and (in Germany’s case) between fronts. In fact, the reason the allies needed to pull off large coordinated assaults is because Germany’s rail system enabled them to shuffle troops between allied attacks and shut them down sequentially.

    I liked your idea about giving everyone a chance to move a certain number of their units a certain number of zones; it reflects the fact that rail travel was limited in both capacity and travel distance, while not adding any extra pieces to the game.


  • Customizer

    For practical purposes, distance should be unlimited. Each turn in the game represents several months, ample time to rail from Bordeaux to Moscow.

    The main difficulty is determining which regions do not have rail - clearly the networks in Africa were negligible, hence my preference for rails on the map itself. However a simple rule that rail can only be used in Europe and the Ottoman Empire would be sufficient.

    I’ve never proposed that you have plastic train pieces to move units around. As for changing unit movement values, by what criteria do you determine that trains carrying tanks and “mech infantry” move faster than trains carrying infantry or artillery? The units can travel as far as the trains can take them, but not into combat.


  • Customizer

    @Flashman:

    I’ve never proposed that you have plastic train pieces to move units around. As for changing unit movement values, by what criteria do you determine that trains carrying tanks and “mech infantry” move faster than trains carrying infantry or artillery? The units can travel as far as the trains can take them, but not into combat.

    This is why I had the caveat in my rule of the maximum number of moves. If you set it at 3, you essentially give infantry and artillery 2 bonus moves and tanks 1 bonus move (assuming tanks can move 2, which may not be a good assumption, considering that WW1 tanks could barely keep pace with walking soldiers, but that’s a discussion for another day).

    @Flashman:

    For practical purposes, distance should be unlimited. Each turn in the game represents several months, ample time to rail from Bordeaux to Moscow.

    I don’t know, maybe this is the case in actuality, but I’m in general opposed to powers warping their units around the board. Take the global game for instance: if the Soviets could move all of their infantry based in Siberia to East Poland in one turn, it would just seem kind of hokey to me.

    In my opinion, if you set the rail move bonus to 3 moves max, you’ve accomplished representing the increased mobility that rail travel granted, while not allowing powers to be everywhere at once.



  • Limit rail movement to territories only with an IPC value of 2 or more (industrial areas)

    Limit each power to how many units it can move by rail to reflect it’s logistic capabilities.
    However…none of this may be necessary.


  • Customizer

    An important thing to remember is that you can never rail units into combat, so the other side will always be able to counter a massive shift of units by rail with a similar move of its own before any combat resultant from it.

    The Soviets did move a large army from Siberia to help the defence of Moscow, but only after receiving assurances that Japan would not violate the neutrality pact. Germany had itself moved the bulk of its armed forces from the western front to the east in the Summer of 1941 in preparation for Barbarossa, largely undetected by the Soviets.

    So there is nothing unhistorical about such huge redeployments, indeed they are entirely reflective of the nature of industrial warfare. One of the challenges is to disrupt your opponent’s communications to prevent this, and of course to secure your own transport lines to reinforce your front.


  • Customizer

    Draft of an alternative map intended to use all the official rules plus rail movement of course. And building units in every home tt, obviously.

    My preferred colour scheme; (Turkey should be tan, this isn’t on the palette I’m using).

    Happy with the new arrangement of Ottoman Empire.

    Russia looks something like.

    Petrograd now the capital, but Russia can move centre to Moscow under certain conditions.

    Didn’t like Lorraine-Burgundy crushing Paris westwards - fixed.

    Persia logically reflects Anglo-Russian accord.

    Still not satisfied with Med SZs.

    America now has its very own colony - hoorah!

    And…Ta-da! Return of the Roundels.

    Axis&Allies1914FlashMap.PNG


  • Customizer

    Divided Prussia.

    Now Berlin is 4 spaces each from Paris & Petrograd, which I think is fair enough. Russia can move capitals to Moscow in an emergency, but Germany can force an armistice without taking it (it has to take Petrograd to defeat Russia).

    Added more SZ in the Arctic - Scotland to Russia now 2 turns.

    I think African tts when mobilized should be less well defended.

    One inf per IPC with no art seems more realistic.

    Axis&Allies1914FlashMap.PNG


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