• Hi guys!

    I’m really excited about this game, I can’t wait to see it! I don’t know that much about WW1, compared to WW2. This game should teach me a few things!

    So I’m wondering what could be the victory conditions of the Central Powers. I mean, in global A&A games, you have to capture a few capitals/victory cities so the final outcome, if the game would be continued, would be world domination. In WW1, is this really possible? Even if the Central Powers conquer France and Italy, it won’t necessarily lead to world domination, IMO. What do you think?

    Nevertheless, I’m guessing the victory conditions will be something like that (with 8 capitals: 3 Central Powers, 5 Allies):

    • Central Powers: Control 5 capitals
    • Allies: Control 7 capitals

    What do you guys think? Do you think it will be more objective based? Am I missing something?

  • Customizer

    No capitals of major nations were captured during WWI. If this is the sole victory condition then the game is broken.

    If the game is in any way authentic, that is combat dominated by defence, then there’s no way Petrograd or Berlin will come under serious threat, never mind London or New York. Remember that Germany surrendered when occupying about 3 times the area it started with.

    My preference is for each country to have a morale rating, which gradually falls as turns go by, pushing countries into internal collapse. Last side standing wins. Under this system a power will fall apart into anarchy before the enemy gets within touching distance of the capital.

    What I expect from the official game is something of a compromise; perhaps victory cities, with a limited number of turns; so that after the final turn the side with the biggest net VC gain wins.


  • @Flashman:

    No capitals of major nations were captured during WWI. If this is the sole victory condition then the game is broken.

    Unfortunately for historicity, Larry said the game was a bit simpler than AA 42, which makes me think it will be about capitals.

  • Customizer

    Until we find out the official victory conditions, let me argue for the game being won by collapse in national morale, rather than the capture of specific tts.

    This is entirely historical, and avoids the silly old capture the capital rules.

    So - a track to record national morale levels in the same manner as IPC incomes.

    Ranges from +10 to -20.

    -11 to -20 is “Disorder”. A nation in Disorder has limited function; in particular its units may mutiny, and it is more susceptible to negative effect event cards.

    below -20 is “Revolution”. A country in Revolution is effectively out of the game, but may be able to recover (but this is unlikely).

    A side which has all its major nations in Revolution or defeated has lost. It is possible that both sides may collapse simultaneously, in which case both sides lose!

    All nations begin at 0 morale. Although it can be argued that some nations were happy to go to war in order to disguise unrest as home, the assumption is that people at first are caught up in a rush of patriotism. In the end the war collapses as people get sick of the casualties and food shortages, so there is a finite game length: it shouldn’t go on beyond 1919.

    At the moment, my list of factors effecting morale is:

    Lose capital: minus 5
    Lose any other home tt: minus 2
    Lose any other tt: minus 1
    Lose convoy: minus 1
    Lose 10 units in combat*: minus 1
    Suffer a bombing raid on your capital (1st time): minus 3
    Suffer a bombing raid on your capital: minus 1
    Lose a dreadnought: minus 1
    End of 1st year of war: minus 1 (all powers)
    End of 2nd year: minus 2 (all powers)
    End of 3rd year: minus 3 (all powers)
    End of 4th year: minus 4 (all powers)
    End of 5th year: minus 5 (all powers)

    Capture an enemy (not minor nations) capital: plus 5
    Capture any other enemy tt (not neutral nations): plus 1
    Bomb an enemy capital: plus 1
    Build a new dreadnought: plus 1

    Clearly the weight is towards declining morale; it is ultimately a matter of survival.

    • I suggest having a “casualties box” for eliminated units. When a nation has 10 units in there, return them to the national unit box and move their morale marker 1 step down.
      The CB can also be used to implement certain event cards, such as:

    Czech Legion: Russia may take 3 Austrian units from the CB, return them to the supply box, and place 3 Russian infantry in any Russian centre. This represents the recruitment of national minority units from enemy POWs.

    Other event cards can effect morale directly, such as Germany sending Lenin to Russia (which must be in disorder).

    Axis&Allies1914.PNG

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    This is axis and allies, so it will probably be based on taking Paris and forcing collapse of Russia, for the central powers.

    The Entente should need to get economic victory and capture specific areas to win.

    Both sides have different agendas


  • I wonder what the best strat for axis will be.  Italy first, then france, then russia? Or russia first, than you can focus on one front?


  • @Striker:

    I wonder what the best strat for axis will be.  Italy first, then france, then russia? Or russia first, than you can focus on one front?

    The nice thing about Russia for the CP is that they will have 3 fronts on it (well, 2 1/2).


  • The collapses you need to handle are Russia, France, Turkey, Austria, Germany. It’s a tough problem.

    All of them led to powers surrendering, except France which only lost the ability to attack for a while. Russia is arguably two collapses, with the first being a bit like France’s collapse, and the second a proper collapse. Probably there are two collapse thresholds for each power, at the first they lose the ability to attack, at the second they go bottom-up.

    If you make e.g. the Russian Revolution happen on a timetable then you discourage the Germans from attacking Russia. Don’t want that.

    But if you base collapse on casualties then you encourage the Germans to go all out against one of their enemies. That isn’t quite what happened historically - they attacked some in the west, even after 1914 - but it’s closer to reality.

    Historically loss of territory (e.g. Syria and Palestine for the Turks) seems to have mattered. And the ignominy of losing a battle to Italy seems to have depressed the Austrians. 🙂

    US entry time could be affected by use of U-boats.

    You need rules for Italian entry too? Plus Bulgaria, Romania, etc…

    Germany may not have collapsed. Maybe the player just said, “OK, you win, let’s try the WW3-in-1946 scenario next.”

  • TripleA '12

    Hi bofinger, welcome to the forums and great post!  🙂


  • @bofinger:

    Historically loss of territory (e.g. Syria and Palestine for the Turks) seems to have mattered. And the ignominy of losing a battle to Italy seems to have depressed the Austrians. 🙂

    To be fair, If I ever lost a battle to the Italians while I was defending a freaking mountain I would be pretty darn depressed…hell I would be depressed even if they beat me on an open field with 3 times the numbers  :-P.

    Though to be honest it was the complete trashing the Russians gave them in 1914 and 1916 that sealed their fate, the Italian front was just them going “Ya know what? Screw EVERYONE!”


  • I think a note should triggered the Victory conditions , get over it. :evil:

  • Customizer

    Yes, I have 2 stages:

    1. Disorder, the main effect of which is that units might mutiny (refuse to attack), and production of weapons may suffer.

    2. Revolution; not impossible to recover from, but units will no longer operate outside their own borders - in my version you place Red units and a full scale civil war breaks out.

    I think collapses should also be possible in Britain, Italy and even America. The outbreak of World War probably averted a civil war in Ireland, Italy was on the verge of collapse before France and Britain sent troops to the Austrian frontier to stiffen Italian resolve, and support for the war in America was by no means universal. It seems only fair.

    I share the concern about a scripted Russian Revolution; we’ve already discussed the possibility of the Russians laying siege to Berlin, only to disappear into thin air because the revolution is due. And why should Germany attack in the east when the know the Russians will vanish in a couple of turns anyway?

    I would say that it pays to attack all of your enemies. The idea is that everyone’s morale will inexorably decline as the war goes on, its really a case of who can keep their men fighting the longest. Therefore, if you concentrate 90% against Russia, the French morale is likely to go so high that you’ll never knock them down. Ideally you want to push both into disorder before going for the KO against one of them.

    There’s a thread below about Italian entry; my guess is that the official game will have mandatory Italian entry on the Allied side on turn 2. Not how I’d do it…

    I’d link Bulgarian entry to a CP invasion of Serbia; Romania to either a Russian attack on Austria, or a CP invasion of Ukraine. Romania wanted territory from both of these Empires.

    @bofinger:

    The collapses you need to handle are Russia, France, Turkey, Austria, Germany. It’s a tough problem.

    All of them led to powers surrendering, except France which only lost the ability to attack for a while. Russia is arguably two collapses, with the first being a bit like France’s collapse, and the second a proper collapse. Probably there are two collapse thresholds for each power, at the first they lose the ability to attack, at the second they go bottom-up.

    If you make e.g. the Russian Revolution happen on a timetable then you discourage the Germans from attacking Russia. Don’t want that.

    But if you base collapse on casualties then you encourage the Germans to go all out against one of their enemies. That isn’t quite what happened historically - they attacked some in the west, even after 1914 - but it’s closer to reality.

    Historically loss of territory (e.g. Syria and Palestine for the Turks) seems to have mattered. And the ignominy of losing a battle to Italy seems to have depressed the Austrians. 🙂

    US entry time could be affected by use of U-boats.

    You need rules for Italian entry too? Plus Bulgaria, Romania, etc…

    Germany may not have collapsed. Maybe the player just said, “OK, you win, let’s try the WW3-in-1946 scenario next.”

  • Customizer

    But haven’t you said that the Russian Revolution happens on schedule anyway?

    Given the probable lack of capital captures (if the game is in any way realistic), my best guess is that it’ll be a simple question of holding X number of VCs, maybe 11 or 12 out of 16?

    Which might be:

    London
    Paris
    Rome
    Petrograd
    Kiev
    Tiflis
    Cairo
    Cape Town

    Berlin
    Cologne
    Konigsburg
    Vienna
    Lemberg
    Constantinople
    Damascus
    Dar-es-Salaam

    @Imperious:

    This is axis and allies, so it will probably be based on taking Paris and forcing collapse of Russia, for the central powers.

    The Entente should need to get economic victory and capture specific areas to win.

    Both sides have different agendas

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    But haven’t you said that the Russian Revolution happens on schedule anyway?

    Yes and only because Germany send Lenin out of prison. He was a poison pill of sorts. Germany knew to release the germ would kill the host and they were right. The only question is how long it would take for the devil to rule hell.


  • The Italians of ww1 you make fun of (my avatar talks about them) basically improvised modern warfare (small tactical squads instead of huge stacks) against the combined austrian and german army with great efficency.

    If Italy was so weak to be ashamed of loosing a battle against it, then I’d love to point you that prior to the coup d’etat and the betrayal of that idiot of the king, the poor equipped ww2 Italians weren’t exatly understimated.

    I’d be more ashamed as the UK loosing a battle with an armored division against Italians cavalry  in africa actually.

  • Customizer

    All armies had tactical infiltration units; its quite wrong to think only German had “Stormtroopers”. The French developed the idea, Italy and Russia both implemented it, and Britain in effect used Canadian and Anzac units in this role in 1918.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_troops#World_War_I

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arditi

  • Customizer

    Lenin would be an event card (Finland Station). But only playable when Russia is in “disorder”. I also have “Rasputin” as a card; basically event cards are a way of reflecting the fact that Russia was more vulnerable to revolution than other countries, without a mandatory collapse on turn X. Russia could still avoid falling apart if it wins a string of victories and advances into Germany.

  • Customizer

    Slightly revised VC list:

    Included a couple of neutrals.

    London
    Paris
    Rome
    Petrograd
    Kiev
    Tiflis
    Cairo
    Brazzaville
    New Delhi

    Brussels
    Belgrade

    Berlin
    Cologne
    Konigsburg
    Vienna
    Lemberg
    Constantinople
    Damascus
    Baghdad
    Dar-es-Salaam

    Wouldn’t have southern Africa on my map (or I’d go the whole hog and have Asia and the Pacific as well), but if it is on there it might as well have tts worth fighting over.

    By and large, the above list pairs up VCs across the main fronts vel:

    London-Berlin (North Sea)
    Paris-Essen (Western Front)
    Rome-Vienna (Alpine Front/Adriatic)
    Konigsburg-Petrograd (Baltic)
    Lemberg-Kiev (Ukraine)
    Brazzaville-Dar-es-Salaam (Central Africa)
    Cairo-Damascus (Middle East)
    Delhi-Baghdad (Mesopotamia)
    Tiflis-Erzerum (Caucasus/Black Sea)
    New York-Mexico City (Rio Grande Front)
    Moscow-Constantinople (The Straits)

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