American Entry

You need to come to the party, or at least march

Jeez, so evasive. It’s almost as if you have something to hide…

I read another evasive post from you in the morning. Good night.

Jeez, so evasive. It’s almost as if you have something to hide…

I read another evasive post from you in the morning. Good night.

What i read from you is never really acknowledging the note triggered the war. The fact that i stay on topic and you don’t, speaks volumes.

Enjoy the party.

@Imperious:

Jeez, so evasive. It’s almost as if you have something to hide…

I read another evasive post from you in the morning. Good night.

What i read from you is never really acknowledging the note triggered the war. The fact that i stay on topic and you don’t, speaks volumes.

Enjoy the party.

You have now made it 100 posts since this post:
@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

It can be admitted that it was the “last straw,” but for the last straw to matter, there has to be many other straws. No one is saying the Zimmerman telegram is totally irrelevant, but please find a source (if you can) that states that as being a more important reason than USW (don’t forget that the note was sent because Germany was planning on resuming USW)

A good chunk, perhaps a majority of the posts since then have been you ignoring what I already said on the matter. What’s quite disturbing is the fact that you suggest that your point has become the topic. The arrogance and need to be the center of attention on your part is shocking. You must have spent too much time with Paris Hilton.

Let’s not forget this one too:
@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

@Imperious:

That does not mean the note was not the final straw that triggered the war. If you got one old women who hates Germany because of Jan 31st you got increased sentiment, but you don’t have the trigger. The note was the final trigger. Get over it.

I already have:
@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

It can be admitted that it was the “last straw,” but for the last straw to matter, there has to be many other straws. No one is saying the Zimmerman telegram is totally irrelevant, but please find a source (if you can) that states that as being a more important reason than USW (don’t forget that the note was sent because Germany was planning on resuming USW)

It wasn’t until you posted your undergraduate paper source (which stated that Wilson still wanted to and still thought he could avoid war on the 26th, TWO DAYS AFTER HE SAW THE TELEGRAM), did it need to be seriously considered that the note was not the last straw. But I cannot be responsible for your attacks on your own arguments, can I? I was comfortable with the note being the last straw, but it seems you have done more to damage your point than anything I posted.

You may have heard the classic definition of insanity: “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” You keep posting your alleged "“only point” over and over again, thinking it will distract from your � unsupportable points and your repeated lies and distractions.

Billy Joel once sang in “Moving Out” that “You can never argue with a crazy mind,” and I’m starting to see exactly what he was singing about. It’s clear you are clinging to your last reasonably defensible point like it’s a palm tree on a tiny island in the cyclone of historical evidence. If there is to be a game mechanic based on what the most important cause of US entry into the war was, the mechanic will be based on unrestricted submarine warfare.

What really speaks volumes is your silence on the matter of the gaming account where ONE user has had ‘Lucas McCain “The Rifleman”’ AND “Imperious Leader” as screen names, and now they show up in the same thread on the same � site voicing the same opinion in an argument. It’s pretty obvious that isn’t on the up-and-up.

@Bombadill10:

I have read much of this thread, but not all of it I will admit this right away.  I have a question then everyone can get back to the Historical point in which the US should enter into the game.

I have always wondered what incentive the US player has for NOT entering the war.  From an “in game” perspective the US stands to gain much from being declared war upon and entering into conflict with an Axis Power.  They can assist the Allies with their ecomony (which blossoms when at war) and the US player finally gets to join in the fun, rather than being a spectator.

SO…. If your the US, why wouldn’t you be chomping at the bit to get into the action?  Has anyone considered a victory condition involving the US never entering the war?  I know it seems ridiculous, sure laugh, but what if the US never entered the war.  Just a thought I figured I would throw at the collective for an opinion.Â

I understand that this would require an almost rebuild of many aspects of the game, but I was curoius if anyone had thought, heard, or condidered in the past.

I was thinking more about it, and Larry said there was already going to be an Unrestricted sub warfare phase in the game. Why not tie that to US entry? I obviously don’t know the details of the phase, but my guess is that we can maintain balance by making that phase more damaging to the British and perhaps give them a bonus if Germany doesn’t damage them with it. Therefore, Germany would have more incentive to do it against britain, but in so doing they move the US along to war. Additionally, Russia dropping out of the war could have a small impact on the US entering as well, although it would not as much as the unrestricted sub warfare. Germany could be very risky or very careful or somewhere in between with their political choices, just like they could have been in the real war. I understand the financial reasons why Larry wants a simpler game, but there’s no reason why the community can’t collaborate on house rules that enhance realism.

Quote from: Imperious Leader on January 11, 2013, 10:36:42 pm
Quote
Jeez, so evasive. It’s almost as if you have something to hide…

I read another evasive post from you in the morning. Good night.

What i read from you is never really acknowledging the note triggered the war. The fact that i stay on topic and you don’t, speaks volumes.

Enjoy the party.

You have now made it 100 posts since this post:
Quote from: vonLettowVorbeck1914 on January 08, 2013, 06:43:21 pm
It can be admitted that it was the “last straw,” but for the last straw to matter, there has to be many other straws. No one is saying the Zimmerman telegram is totally irrelevant, but please find a source (if you can) that states that as being a more important reason than USW (don’t forget that the note was sent because Germany was planning on resuming USW)

I don’t need to find this because it is NOT MY ARGUMENT.  I made the same claim in almost every post and you just argue about something that it is not my own. Get over it the Note triggered the war and you have been defeated. You never really want to address this truth, which was the source of entertainment for 7 pages until we had the parade and celebration of victory.

A good chunk, perhaps a majority of the posts since then have been you ignoring what I already said on the matter. What’s quite disturbing is the fact that you suggest that your point has become the topic. The arrogance and need to be the center of attention on your part is shocking. You must have spent too much time with Paris Hilton.

Lets get this straight. I post and YOU REPLY TO ME.  I said the note triggered the war and from that point you invent all sorts of secondary arguments which i never entertained. I don’t take that bait and you know it. I stick with the central point which is the note triggered the war, so get over it.

Let’s not forget this one too:
Quote from: vonLettowVorbeck1914 on January 08, 2013, 09:48:42 pm
Quote from: Imperious Leader on January 08, 2013, 09:22:20 pm
That does not mean the note was not the final straw that triggered the war. If you got one old women who hates Germany because of Jan 31st you got increased sentiment, but you don’t have the trigger. The note was the final trigger. Get over it.

I already have:
Quote from: vonLettowVorbeck1914 on January 08, 2013, 06:43:21 pm
It can be admitted that it was the “last straw,” but for the last straw to matter, there has to be many other straws. No one is saying the Zimmerman telegram is totally irrelevant, but please find a source (if you can) that states that as being a more important reason than USW (don’t forget that the note was sent because Germany was planning on resuming USW)

It wasn’t until you posted your undergraduate paper source (which stated that Wilson still wanted to and still thought he could avoid war on the 26th, TWO DAYS AFTER HE SAW THE TELEGRAM), did it need to be seriously considered that the note was not the last straw. But I cannot be responsible for your attacks on your own arguments, can I? I was comfortable with the note being the last straw, but it seems you have done more to damage your point than anything I posted.

Yes the note caused the war, that was what the celebration was about. You should really pay attention.

You may have heard the classic definition of insanity: “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” You keep posting your alleged "“only point” over and over again, thinking it will distract from your � unsupportable points and your repeated lies and distractions.

Billy Joel once sang in “Moving Out” that “You can never argue with a crazy mind,” and I’m starting to see exactly what he was singing about. It’s clear you are clinging to your last reasonably defensible point like it’s a palm tree on a tiny island in the cyclone of historical evidence. If there is to be a game mechanic based on what the most important cause of US entry into the war was, the mechanic will be based on unrestricted submarine warfare.

Yes what speaks volumes is me proving that the note triggered the war and YOU trying to bait me into some argument i never made and failing, which triggered the celebration.

@Imperious:

Lets get this straight. I post and YOU REPLY TO ME.Â

Then why do you attack me for a response I wrote to another member’s post?
@Imperious:

[My response to another members post:]
Back to your point, it’s not ridiculous at all to think of a scenario where Germany decided not to risk unrestricted submarine warfare. So concurrent is the historical opinion and research on the subject that since the sub attacks were more than anything else what motivated the US to declare war, a scenario where the German player chooses not to use its subs that way (however that is translated into the game) is not laughable at all, in fact it’s quite plausible.

[Your attack on me for responding to another member’s post:]
Again the note triggered the war, if you want to have me make new arguments wait for me to make them, i wont and the wait might give you time to clean the rabid foam from your mouth. The only thing i set to prove and validate is that the note triggered US entry, now get over it.

Bold added to describe context.  You attacked me when I was responding on-topic to another member’s on-topic post. If you want a thread to be about the note triggering the war and people getting over that opinion, then start a thread called “The note triggered the war, get over it.”

I am trying to get the thread back on topic. I have taken Billy Joel’s sound advice. Quit attacking me.

Then why do you attack me for a response I wrote to another member’s post?
Quote from: Imperious Leader on January 11, 2013, 09:42:04 pm

I didn’t. I am not arguing with any point you made, you are arguing with my point, which is what triggered the war. And that was my main point.

Quote
[My response to another members post:]
Back to your point, it’s not ridiculous at all to think of a scenario where Germany decided not to risk unrestricted submarine warfare. So concurrent is the historical opinion and research on the subject that since the sub attacks were more than anything else what motivated the US to declare war, a scenario where the German player chooses not to use its subs that way (however that is translated into the game) is not laughable at all, in fact it’s quite plausible.

[Your attack on me for responding to another member’s post:]
Again the note triggered the war, if you want to have me make new arguments wait for me to make them, i wont and the wait might give you time to clean the rabid foam from your mouth. The only thing i set to prove and validate is that the note triggered US entry, now get over it.

Bold added to describe context.  You attacked me when I was responding on-topic to another member’s on-topic post. If you want a thread to be about the note triggering the war and people getting over that opinion, then start a thread called “The note triggered the war, get over it.”

Sounds like a great idea!

I am trying to get the thread back on topic. I have taken Billy Joel’s sound advice. Quit attacking me.

LOL

@Bombadill10:

I have read much of this thread, but not all of it I will admit this right away.��  I have a question then everyone can get back to the Historical point in which the US should enter into the game.

I have always wondered what incentive the US player has for NOT entering the war.��  From an “in game” perspective the US stands to gain much from being declared war upon and entering into conflict with an Axis Power.��  They can assist the Allies with their ecomony (which blossoms when at war) and the US player finally gets to join in the fun, rather than being a spectator.

SO…. If your the US, why wouldn’t you be chomping at the bit to get into the action?��  Has anyone considered a victory condition involving the US never entering the war?��  I know it seems ridiculous, sure laugh, but what if the US never entered the war.��  Just a thought I figured I would throw at the collective for an opinion.�� Â

I understand that this would require an almost rebuild of many aspects of the game, but I was curoius if anyone had thought, heard, or condidered in the past.

I was thinking more about it, and Larry said there was already going to be an Unrestricted sub warfare phase in the game. Why not tie that to US entry? I obviously don’t know the details of the phase, but my guess is that we can maintain balance by making that phase more damaging to the British and perhaps give them a bonus if Germany doesn’t damage them with it. Therefore, Germany would have more incentive to do it against britain, but in so doing they move the US along to war. Additionally, Russia dropping out of the war could have a small impact on the US entering as well, although it would not as much as the unrestricted sub warfare. Germany could be very risky or very careful or somewhere in between with their political choices, just like they could have been in the real war. I understand the financial reasons why Larry wants a simpler game, but there’s no reason why the community can’t collaborate on house rules that enhance realism.

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

@Bombadill10:

I have read much of this thread, but not all of it I will admit this right away.�  I have a question then everyone can get back to the Historical point in which the US should enter into the game.

I have always wondered what incentive the US player has for NOT entering the war.�  From an “in game” perspective the US stands to gain much from being declared war upon and entering into conflict with an Axis Power.�  They can assist the Allies with their ecomony (which blossoms when at war) and the US player finally gets to join in the fun, rather than being a spectator.

SO…. If your the US, why wouldn’t you be chomping at the bit to get into the action?�  Has anyone considered a victory condition involving the US never entering the war?�  I know it seems ridiculous, sure laugh, but what if the US never entered the war.�  Just a thought I figured I would throw at the collective for an opinion.�Â

I understand that this would require an almost rebuild of many aspects of the game, but I was curoius if anyone had thought, heard, or condidered in the past.

I think it has a chance at being pretty cool. It can also be quite historical if the German player is VERY conservative with how he or she uses his or her submarines. Would it be a little hard to balance and require a lot of other changes? Sure. But one factor that helps the balance is that if Germany does not provoke the US, they are also most likely not strangling Britain. So a US-less war would have a stronger UK.

It would be a cool balance challenge to make a more historical game.

Yea I thought so too.  Intresting game with a stronger UK and no US.  Thanks for the input.