• This is my first post.  Looking at the board I’m wondering what UK players generally attack SZ 97 with?  Italy can defend with one battleship, 1 cruiser and potentially 3 fighters.

    The UK can attack with 1 aircraft carrier, 1 destroyer, 1 cruiser, 1 fighter from malta, 1 tactical bomber onboard the aircraft carrier, 1 fighter from gibraltor, and 1 bomber from the UK.  1 fighter would have to land on the aircraft carrier but the other as well as the tactical bomber could land on malta or the aircraft carrier.

    Is anyone else seeing or using this attack?

    What is the proper Italian response?

    Thank you for any comments.


  • Catfish this is the key attack for the UK, cutting Italy’s growth prospects off early.  It is called Taranto on here. You might search for it.

    You can also send a fighter or two from the UK, which in theory land on the carrier. Be careful about damaging the carrier or they crash into the ocean.

    The most common bid for the allies is to add a sub to sz 98 to attack 97 on UK 1.

    –Jeff


  • The Gib fighter is best used attacking sz 96, killing the other Italian tranny, maybe with the sz 91 cruiser if it lived.


  • Thank you Jeff for your response.  I was thinking about using a German G1 attack on SZ110, and SZ111 to bait a scramble.  I would save my battleship and biuld 1ac, 1d, 1s.  This would have the potential of convoying if the UK fighters left for the med.  I am unsure or I could use my transport to block gibraltor and support the Italians this way.  Has anyone had any success using this method or something similar?


  • I hate to scramble into battles as the UK because if you get wiped out, the german player can buy 9 or 10 transports on G2 and invade the UK, called “Sea Lion”.

    Your plan to attack 110 and 111 is pretty standard. Make sure you use all the air in range, don’t attack France with air or the scramble will hurt you pretty bad.

    I sometimes grab Gib g2 with a German transport because it gives Italy the 3 out of 4: Southern France, Greece, Gib, and Egypt National Objective for +5. Italy’s navy usually isn’t big enough on I2 to get Gib without losing the transport to air attacks out of Egypt or the UK that land in Morocco.

  • '16 '15 '10

    Don’t get in the mindset that you have to attack sz97 every game.  If there is a Sea Lion threat, then you probably don’t want to do it.

    Two quick tips re your G1–Attacking 110/111 w/o the bb is too risky–UK is well advised to scramble against that and it could go badly for you.  And I’d rather save 6 then buy an ss G1.


  • Yeah I see what you mean.  Okay is it common for players to attack SZ106 with two submarines or just one?  This would make the attack on SZ110 1BB, 1S, and aircraft.  Also how common are players biulding an aircraft carrier on G1?


  • Okay is it common for players to attack SZ106 with two submarines or just one?

    I know that our common games, involve 2 subs into that zone.  It stops the reinforcement to Gib, which stops the Brazil hit as well.

    You can try 1, but its 50/50.


  • With a 3 plane scramble on Southern Italy (Germany flies one down), attacking Italy’s navy becomes somewhat trickier. If you send the house, which would include the fighters from Gibraltar and Malta and the bomber from London, you can still get upwards of 80% odds and you may have 2-3 units remaining on average, which means your planes usually which are going to get amphibious assaulted right after they land on Malta.

    If you pull back just one plane to send one plane after the destroyer/transport outside of Malta, your odds quickly drop to what amount to a 50/50 against Italy on who has the last unit left. This still leaves Italy with probably no planes and just the Cruiser/Destroyer/Transport.

    Other options: send the Gibraltar fighter to London for scramble defense against Germany or just basic offense and use the bomber alone to go for the destroyer outside Malta. Risky but good payoff. The problem with only sending two planes to SZ97 is that with a 3-plane scramble your odds plummet to around 14-15% and even if you win the boatsmash it is very likely Italy will have all of their planes still.

    At the start of the game you make 3x the money that Italy makes. If your London navy survives you can send some or all of it to clean up what it left of the Italian navy, along with any navy you build out of South Africa, which is only one turn from being within striking distance.

    If Germany doesn’t land that plane in Southern Italy you almost have to take that boatsmash. With just a 2-plane scramble you can send just 2 planes for the 50/50 shot, which means leaving Italy with only 1 transport. Italy with only 1 transport is a tough climb back. If you sent “everything” to SZ97 with a two-plane scramble you would have about 95-97% odds but out of your 3 boats and 4 planes you would still likely lose 3 units.

    So the key isn’t saving your UK boats, it’s killing Italian transports and just trusting in the fact that you make so much more money than Italy that they’ll never be able to get off the ground. That means less forces in Africa and almost no chance of Italy taking Egypt.

    Sometimes it’s simply safer to just pull back your Navy through through Egypt where Italy can’t get it and simply outbuild their navy while protecting Egypt. Come back with a bigger navy before Italy can start making 20-25 IPC a turn.


  • @Zhukov44:

    Don’t get in the mindset that you have to attack sz97 every game.  If there is a Sea Lion threat, then you probably don’t want to do it.

    Two quick tips re your G1–Attacking 110/111 w/o the bb is too risky–UK is well advised to scramble against that and it could go badly for you.  And I’d rather save 6 then buy an ss G1.

    Zhukov,

    What’s your preferred move when facing a sea lion threat on UK1? Are you worried that a sea lion bluff will allow Italy to get Egypt or the Middle East in short order?

    –Jeff

  • '16 '15 '10

    What’s your preferred move when facing a sea lion threat on UK1?

    Depends on the positioning of Germany’s air and the actual German buy.  92 consolidation and clearing 110/111 with air power is the preferred strat–it’s up to Germany to make that hard.  If the sea lion bluff involves a carrier and an extra trn, then keeping air near London to prevent a Scotland landing is a priority.  But (generally) not at the expense of an effective 92 consolidation.

    Either way 97 is off the table if the Sea Lion threat is legit.

    Are you worried that a sea lion bluff will allow Italy to get Egypt or the Middle East in short order?

    I think it’s more important to hold London as long as possible and inflict the max amount of dmg to Germany there.  If London falls then Africa is doomed, but if London holds then you can always keep fighting there.

    Besides, Italy’s options are limited, since any sz outside of their home waters should be vulnerable to counter-attack if the 92 fleet survives.  Attacking 92 is a high risk endeavor.


  • Thank you everyone for your responses.  I like the idea of bluffing sea-lion.  I have used this strategy once before in alpha 2 and had some success.  What is the typical g1 biudl to bluff sea-lion.  I have been thinking about either 1 ac, 1 d, 2 I,  or 10 I.  Any suggestions, comments?


  • I’ve seen even a 10I build result in a Sealion when the UK player went IC Egypt and South Africa mechs because he thought it was off the table. The UK player emptied the isles to Taranto. And it didn’t take a 10 transport guild G2 to do it, either.

    The AC/DD build generally keeps scrambling to a minimum on G1 so a lot of players go with it.

    Keep in mind, though, that if you’re going to DOW early with Japan, expect American units in Europe and Africa early, just a couple Americans in UK at the end of US2 is usually enough to defeat Sealion if UK has prepared for it. And if you’ve already spent 100 IPC on navy at that point and 0 on land units, while the Soviets have placed 74 IPC of land units… yuck.

  • '12

    Also if Japan holds off until J2 to DoW, but the US player is either dead certain it will happen or hopes to discourage Sea Lion, they can slap a Naval Base on Greenland and load it up with their starting Atlantic forces US1, then drop the troops off in Scotland or Ireland US2.  If London is saved at that point, you’re still in a decent position to threaten landings from France to Norway, or even farther if the UK player can be accommodating enough to give you a Naval Base.

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