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Minor Powers in A&A 1914


  • 2016

    Would have posted this in the “Playable Nations in 1914” topic, but that got really off topic, so I made this new one.

    Larry has said that there will be “many minor powers”
    I’ve understood the term “power” in A&A as a playable nation.

    So, how do you all think minor powers will be like in the game?
    Would they all be playable individually?
    Would all minor powers share their combat and movement in the same turn?
    Or even be combined totally as a single player?

    Maybe they aren’t really “powers”. Just territories that join a major power when that territory joins the war or perhaps act as a Pro-Allied or Pro-Central neutral when that territory/territories joins the war.

    I hope they’re all individually playable, although I am really doubting that.



  • I’m thinking the minor powers are pro-axis or pro-allied neutrals.



  • @Yavid:

    I’m thinking the minor powers are pro-axis or pro-allied neutrals.

    By which you mean Pro-central or pro-allied neutrals



  • yeah that too



  • Didn’t Larry already say that Neutrals will be controlled by the major powers? I assume Serbia by Russia and Portugal by GB or something like that.


  • 2016

    I don’t think so. He just kept saying that there will be many minor powers.

    And yeah, I was thinking if these minor powers are controlled by major powers, then Serbia and Montenegro would go to Russia and Portugal to Great Britain.
    Maybe Romania to Russia?
    Bulgaria to Germany…
    Not sure about the others.


  • Customizer

    Remains to be seen if neutrals who didn’t take part in the war will be featured as possible participants, or just “impassable” areas.
    Of these, only Spain would be any more than a single tt.

    I hope we don’t get any of the Canada/Anzac/India as separate powers nonsense from Global.

    Belgium would be in effect a British satellite.

    On the other hand, LH may be planning for Luxembourg and Rio de Oro to have their own massed armies.



  • @Flashman:

    Remains to be seen if neutrals who didn’t take part in the war will be featured as possible participants, or just “impassable” areas.
    Of these, only Spain would be any more than a single tt.

    I hope we don’t get any of the Canada/Anzac/India as separate powers nonsense from Global.

    Belgium would be in effect a British satellite.

    On the other hand, LH may be planning for Luxembourg and Rio de Oro to have their own massed armies.

    Canada/Anzac/India as seperate powers(or Bavaria/Saxony) would be an uncessary complication but the part of the
    Great War that always appealed to me was variety of Units that made up some of the  major Empires.
    So I expect I’ll be doing slightly different paint jobs to represent these units.

    OD


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Flashman:

    I hope we don’t get any of the Canada/Anzac/India as separate powers nonsense from Global.

    One historical factor which would support these countries not being treated as separate powers in the WWI game is that, in WWI, they did not declare war independently.  As part of the British Empire, they didn’t have their own foreign policies; they were pulled into the war by Britain’s declaration of war.  Also, their forces in WWI operated to a large degree under British command.  In WWII, as a result of the 1931 Statute of Westminster, they declared war independently from Britain.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Pfftp.

    Clearly Canada was the most important country of the war.

    I mean, America shouldn’t even be in the game (Sarcasm). They didn’t even show up until the war was already over.


  • Customizer

    Depending on the size of the board, you can pimp colonial units from the ever expanding HaT range:

    http://www.hat.com/currentW.html

    But, yes, part of my thinking is that each and every infantry unit will have a national designation based on the area its raised in.

    So the Austrian army would have anything up to 8 nationalities. The British army in the Middle East would be largely Indian and Anzac units.

    Regarding WWII, I’m not convinced that the Commonwealth units were that much more independent, but for the old games starting 1942 I put Anzacs under American control due to the Allied SWP command:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_West_Pacific_Area_(command)



  • @Yavid:

    I’m thinking the minor powers are pro-axis or pro-allied neutrals.

    /thread. that is exactly what Larry means


  • Customizer

    Looking at the map it seems that:

    Serbia and Romania are same colour as Russia;

    Bulgaria is same colour as Turkey;

    Portugal and (colonies) is same colour as France;

    Arabia is UK colour.

    Can’t make out the rest, presumably Belgium starts UK or French.

    There are neutrals such as Spain, Sweden and Persia which never joined the war.

    It remains to be seen if the same colour means they start in effect at war, or it just indicates who controls them when they do join.

    Also, UK units are a closer colour to neutral countries than as their own tts…

    Best Guess, then:

    Start as Allied: Belgium (France), Serbia & Montenegro (Russia)
    Join Allies after turn 2(1915): Italy
    Join Allies after turn 3(1916): Portugal (France), Arabia (UK) & Romania (Russia)
    Join Allies after turn 4(1917): USA, Greece?

    Neutral: Spain, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Abyssinia, Persia, Albania, Afghanistan, Greece?

    Join CP after turn 1(1914): Turkey
    Join CP after turn 2(1915): Bulgaria

    Greece is a difficult one; they supposedly had an alliance with Serbia, but had a pro-German king who refused to join the Allies. Otherwise its difficult to assign “pro” status to any of the other neutrals who didn’t actually take part.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Modern_Greece#World_War_I

    I’m assuming Switzerland is neutral and impassable - cannot be invaded, but this may not be so.


  • Customizer

    A longer chronology (1 turn = 3 months) gives us the following historical timetable:

    start of turn:

    2 - Turkey joins CP

    4 - Italy joins Allies
    5 - Bulgaria joins CP (possibly Allies now allowed into Greece - ref Salonika)
    6 - Senussi Revolt (anti-Allied)
    7 - Portugal joins Allies
    8 - Arab Revolt (anti-CP)
    9 - Romania joins Allies
    10 - US Election (Republican win - USA joins Allies)
    11 - USA joins Allies
    12 - Greece joins Allies
    13 - Liberia joins Allies (doesn’t seem to be on the map)
    14 - Bolshevik Revolution - Russia collapses into civil war

    Interested to see if the game has a set limit on turns, i.e. after turn 20? you count up income or VCs to determine a winner.

    Different system:

    http://www.guildofblades.com/WWI_phase1.php



  • @Flashman:

    A longer chronology (1 turn = 3 months) gives us the following historical timetable:

    start of turn:

    2 - Turkey joins CP

    4 - Italy joins Allies
    5 - Bulgaria joins CP (possibly Allies now allowed into Greece - ref Salonika)
    6 - Senussi Revolt (anti-Allied)
    7 - Portugal joins Allies
    8 - Arab Revolt (anti-CP)
    9 - Romania joins Allies

    11 - USA joins Allies
    12 - Greece joins Allies
    13 - Liberia joins Allies (doesn’t seem to be on the map)
    14 - Bolshevik Revolution - Russia collapses into civil war

    Interested to see if the game has a set limit on turns, i.e. after turn 20? you count up income or VCs to determine a winner.

    Different system:

    http://www.guildofblades.com/WWI_phase1.php

    well that tells us one thing for sure. 1 turn does NOT equal 3 months because USA enters the war on turn 4


  • Customizer

    Still don’t see how US can enter that early.

    If Larry wanted to fast track to the USA getting in the war earlier perhaps the game should have been “Axis and Allies 1917”.

    This would mean:

    All major nations already at war (no need for political rules)

    Weapons such as tanks and fighters would already be in production (no need for tech schedule)

    Starting in April 1917, Russia would still be in the war, but on it’s last legs. The CP would have to deliver a KO blow to France or Russia before the Americans get mobilized.
    But then, any scenario that has a scheduled US entry is essentially the same thing.

    Perhaps a 1917 scenario will be included.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    No it’s because the turns are not based on rigid turns of ‘time’, rather it is based on what makes sense for the game from a balancing standpoint.

    I guarantee you no other scenario will be included, thank god.


  • Customizer

    But if the USA can come in when Russia is still strong, what chance can the CP possibly stand?

    Unless it starts with stacks, and stacks, and stacks, and stacks of infantry…


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Because Russia falls into revolution without another set of “red pieces” that adds nothing to anything. They just retire from the game like they did in History.


  • Customizer

    Even if they’re at the very gates of Berlin?

    Sorry, Ivan, but the game balance requires that your entire army collapses at this point, so you all you Russkis have to disappear into thin air.

    Politics, politics.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    If they got there, the game is most likely over anyway. But in that case they fall anyway to Lenin. If they didn’t fall the “red set” of pieces would be even more invalidated.



  • @Flashman:

    Still don’t see how US can enter that early.

    If Larry wanted to fast track to the USA getting in the war earlier perhaps the game should have been “Axis and Allies 1917”.

    This would mean:

    All major nations already at war (no need for political rules)

    Weapons such as tanks and fighters would already be in production (no need for tech schedule)

    Starting in April 1917, Russia would still be in the war, but on it’s last legs. The CP would have to deliver a KO blow to France or Russia before the Americans get mobilized.
    But then, any scenario that has a scheduled US entry is essentially the same thing.

    Perhaps a 1917 scenario will be included.

    Q. And since this starts in 1914, I wonder how the nations that opted to stay neutral in the beginning will be played.

    A. Many minor powers are neutral initially, including the US, which if not attacked by the Central Powers will enter the war on turn 4.

    It’s right there in the accouncement


  • Customizer

    @Imperious:

    If they got there, the game is most likely over anyway. But in that case they fall anyway to Lenin. If they didn’t fall the “red set” of pieces would be even more invalidated.

    The purpose of the Red pieces is to fight the “loyal” Russian pieces to stop them reopening the Eastern Front.

    Really, you seem to fall into the trap of seeing “World War I” and “World War II” as single self-contained events.

    WWII was in fact a collision of around 5 or 6 regional wars that happened to overlap. The “Allies” eventually co-operated, but didn’t even have the same enemies all the time. Only the Finnish-Soviet peace treaty stopped the UK and USSR being at war with each other.

    So in WWI the Eastern and Western fronts were fought with little reference to each other; the armistice of December 1917 didn’t stop the war; that of November 1918 didn’t stop the fighting. The war in the east didn’t end in 1918; it collapsed into a series of regional conflicts going on well into the 1920s.
    If the game is to have any resemblance to reality, it is this collapse of Great Powers, rather than military occupation, that brings victory or defeat.

    Moreover, if the Russians KNOW they’re going to disappear into the ether at the end of turn 4, even if they have a better than average win ratio, they’re little more than a swarm of Lemmings, hurling themselves at the nearest German positions in complete disregard to holding any defensive line.

    I’m wondering if, since there are no fighters on the map shot, Larry agrees with me that there were in effect no fighters in 1914. Since reconnaissance is unlikely to be a factor, early war machines are irrelevant.



  • @Flashman:

    Moreover, if the Russians KNOW they’re going to disappear into the ether at the end of turn 4, even if they have a better than average win ration, they’re little more than a swarm of Lemmings, hurling themselves at the nearest German positions in complete disregard to holding any defensive line.

    Sounds like how the Russian Generals lead there men into war.


  • Customizer

    @Yavid:

    @Flashman:

    Still don’t see how US can enter that early.

    If Larry wanted to fast track to the USA getting in the war earlier perhaps the game should have been “Axis and Allies 1917”.

    This would mean:

    All major nations already at war (no need for political rules)

    Weapons such as tanks and fighters would already be in production (no need for tech schedule)

    Starting in April 1917, Russia would still be in the war, but on it’s last legs. The CP would have to deliver a KO blow to France or Russia before the Americans get mobilized.
    But then, any scenario that has a scheduled US entry is essentially the same thing.

    Perhaps a 1917 scenario will be included.

    Q. And since this starts in 1914, I wonder how the nations that opted to stay neutral in the beginning will be played.

    A. Many minor powers are neutral initially, including the US, which if not attacked by the Central Powers will enter the war on turn 4.

    It’s right there in the accouncement

    “And thus”, quoth the great prophet Yavid, “spaketh the Lord Larry”. “For his word is the law, and shall be neither questioned nor anticipated. For he who questioneth the Lord Larry shall be cast into the pit of Houserules, where he shall perish, for without official rules, houserules cannot be”.

    “Except Imperious Leader, who shall be forgiven all, for he hath his own game to plug.”


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