German Blueprint: G1 Attack on Russia

  • '17 '16 '13 '12

    @Vance:

    @Young:

    @ Vance.

    Don’t think that the Axis have to move fast to win, the economic long game is more viable than ever for the Axis powers. Don’t abandon Italy, they will be weak for the first 3 rounds, but by Germany giving them the Balkin territories including the neutrals in Bulgaria, and the right amount of Mediteranian support in navy and air force, they should start making a healthy $25 per turn.

    I was thinking more along the lines of not sending good money after bad in Africa.  Let Italy have South France, Yugo, Bulgaria, then Greece.  Italy’s job is to stack a counterattack force of inf/arts in France.  The allies will be unstoppable once they get up to speed so I am hoping for the fast win.

    Omega, in grasshoppers attack on Paris, 7 inf, 4 mech, 3 art, 3 armor versus the 6 inf, 2 art, 2 armor, 1 fighter and 1 AA the odds work out to 94% with 7 or 8 units surviving.  There is a typo above where it says 6 inf but he meant 7

    1 extra infantry helps quite a bit there.

  • '17 '16 '13 '12

    The UK can merge the 91 cruiser + 96 units into 93, joining the French Cruiser / Destroyer there (after clearing a path in 96 with planes.) Removing this threat from the board will be extremely costly. The best I can see happening is the Italians making a strafe attack and letting the Germans finish the job on their round (more planes will be lost still)

    That + a landing in Greece would be a hard one to crack for the Italians.

    I might be missing something, but I don’t see how this puts the Axis in a strong position.

  • Sponsor

    You’re right, it’s 7 infantry in France (edited in post 1).

    @Omega, I never said that this puts Germany in a strong position, I said it was a comfortable position while making Russia uncomfortable.

    @Vance, Germany must take S.France in round 2 (not Italy) to make up for money lost in G1, and to build sea units in round 3.


  • @Young:

    You’re right, it’s 7 infantry in France (edited in post 1).

    @Omega, I never said that this puts Germany in a strong position, I said it was a comfortable position while making Russia uncomfortable.

    @Vance, Germany must take S.France in round 2 (not Italy) to make up for money lost in G1, and to build sea units in round 3.

    Right, you said you wanted to drop a fleet into the med G3.  gotcha

  • Sponsor

    Gotta admit that it takes stones to try, some might argue that it takes brains not to.


  • Hey Grasshopper, I ran thru your G1 a couple times with TripleA and for what its worth this would be my response:

    Build 3 art in Novgorod; 2 inf, 1 art in Ukraine; 1 inf, 3 mechs in Moscow
    Strafe Baltic states with 7 inf, 1 art, 1 fighter, then retreat to Novgorod
    Take Bessarabia with 4 inf, 1 fig, 1 tac

    NCMs:
    Land fighter in Novgorod and UK will send the Scotland fighter (UK will do Taranto)
    6 inf from Vyborg/Karelia/Archangel to Novgorod

    Land fighter, tac in Bryansk
    1 inf, 1 art, 2 AA, 1 tank from Moscow to Bryansk

    1 mech from Moscow to Ukraine
    1 tank, 1 mech from Stalingrad to Ukraine
    1 art from NorthWest Ukraine to Ukraine

    Activate NorthWest Persia with 2 inf (R2 get Persia and land a plane in NW Persia)

    all far east troops go to Buryatia

  • Sponsor

    Strafing is tricky business, if you roll well and get a 1st round sweep, you’re right where I want you. The rest is standard, meaning I would expect a 3>4 round attrition battle that Germany should win.


  • With my luck I would roll a bunch of 1s  :-)

    I see something now that I would change too.  Bombers and tanks could hit Bryansk and Italian bomber could can opener any blockers so I guess I would have to leave inf/art/AA in Moscow and the tanks/mechs/fighter/tac go to Ukraine.

  • '16 '15 '10

    SZ#110 - 2 Submarines, 1 Battleship, 2 Fighters, 2 T.Bombers, 1 S.Bomber

    Scramble=tempting.  13% chance of victory.  Tough call.

    SZ#111 - 2 Submarines, 2 Fighters, 1 T.Bomber, 1 S.Bomber

    Scramble alot less controversial here.  17% chance of victory.

    France - 7 Infantry, 4 M.Infantry, 3 Artillery, 3 Tanks

    93% chance of victory is alot.  But 100% (with the 6 tanks) is alot better.  On average, not having the 3 extra tanks will cost Germany an extra 2-3 art or mech to take it.  And then there’s the issue that 7% of the time you won’t win and it’s tough coming back from that.

    I choose to leave Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and Greece for Italy, to ensure their financial stability in future rounds.

    What is the justification for giving the Bulgarian army to Italy?

    This G1 does kill the 7 Russian inf.  But you lose an average of 3 inf in the process.  You lose the 2-3 art or mech in France.  You’re exposed to risk in 110/111 and in France.  Russia gets +5 and Germany doesn’t get +5.  There is no German fig on S. Italy.  Russia has an opportunity to make up to +7 per turn in the Middle East by R3.  And your G1 buy (which seems basically defensive) isn’t a great threat to the Soviets.

    Great food for thought but I’m not seeing sufficient incentive to war with the Soviets early on.

  • Sponsor

    Sounds like a lot of tough decisions for the allies…. Germany is in balls deep.

  • '17 '16 '13 '12

    We are going to test Vance’s strategy with a league game against me (first game online). We’ll see how it goes.


  • Hey guys, I just saw a third kind of G1 that has element of my G1 and grasshopper’s G1.  It is in the XDAP tournament in the game between wewin versus headless neds.  Pretty interesting combination of ideas in it and worth a look.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=28973.0

  • Sponsor

    @Vance:

    Hey guys, I just saw a third kind of G1 that has element of my G1 and grasshopper’s G1.  It is in the XDAP tournament in the game between wewin versus headless neds.  Pretty interesting combination of ideas in it and worth a look.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=28973.0

    Very cool! he must have that same deep down instinct that we do, the one that suggests that it’s a bold, but calculated axis strategy for long term population control of Russian troops. I would love to know how it turned out, and to hear both their views on their game. I appreciate him trying to take out the Cruiser off Gibraltar, but I wouldn’t have left SZ#110 alone. I’m also conflicted about the purchase phase, If there is a scramble in my plan, I will need to replace planes fast to take out the British ships after Toranto.

  • '17 '16 '13 '12

    I started my first online game with Vance to test G1 and he unfortunately left the board / discontinued his account…

    Anyone interested to take the Axis and trying on his strategy as described in this thread?

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=29231.30

    I would be up for another game with a G1 / J1 (or at least J1). It seems like the Axis must be getting some success because this strategy has become popular (Frankly I’m having trouble to see why, I think J1 increases Allies’s chances)

  • Sponsor

    I only play table top, however, ksmckay might oblige you considering that he has attempted a G1 attack on Russia before. Tell him you want a game if he does it, and then please provide the link to the game here.


  • @Young:

    Purchase New Units

    1 Strategic Bomber
    1 Fighter
    1 Destroyer

    Combat Movement

    SZ#106 - 1 Submarine
    SZ#110 - 2 Submarines, 1 Battleship, 2 Fighters, 2 T.Bombers, 1 S.Bomber
    SZ#111 - 2 Submarines, 2 Fighters, 1 T.Bomber, 1 S.Bomber
    France - 7 Infantry, 4 M.Infantry, 3 Artillery, 3 Tanks
    Baltic States - 3 Infantry, 2 Tanks, 1 T.Bomber
    Eastern Poland - 2 Infantry. 3 Tanks
    Bessarabia - 2 Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Fighter, 1 T.Bomber

    The tank in Bessarabia is unnessessary to achieving the desired result, and is simply a juicy target for Russia. Better to leave it out.

    Why buy the bomber and fighter? Why not tanks and guys?


  • @Zhukov44:

     You’re exposed to risk in 110/111 and in France. Â

    this is a very important point. in fact, the odds that Germany will win all three battles should UK choose to scramble is only: 67%. (8.18.89.4/100)

    Unacceptable risk imo. If the opening led to some obviously dead won position for Axis then maybe or if I was playing a vastly superior opponent and I needed a few breaks to win then perhaps as well.

    As it stands, I wouldn’t dream of trying this approach against an equal opponent.


  • @rockrobinoff:

    @Zhukov44:

    � You’re exposed to risk in 110/111 and in France. �

    this is a very important point. in fact, the odds that Germany will win all three battles should UK choose to scramble is only: 67%. (8.18.89.4/100)

    Unacceptable risk imo. If the opening led to some obviously dead won position for Axis then maybe or if I was playing a vastly superior opponent and I needed a few breaks to win then perhaps as well.

    As it stands, I wouldn’t dream of trying this approach against an equal opponent.

    To wit: from an odds standpoint, if all three attacks were successful (and ignoring that it could be “successful” and still very very painful for you), and we’re assuming that a failure at any one is a huge problem that probably results in a loss, then you would have to be able to reasonably assume that you need to win over 75% of the games where all three are successful in order to reach a 50/50 break even of losses and wins.

    Do you feel that this strategy, when it works, gives you a 75% chance to win the game?

  • Sponsor

    from rockrobinoff
    The tank in Bessarabia is unnessessary to achieving the desired result, and is simply a juicy target for Russia. Better to leave it out.

    Why buy the bomber and fighter? Why not tanks and guys?

    To rockrobinoff

    Because if the UK scrambles, I need to replace any lost air units right away so that I can send an air attack into SZ# 97 during round two. Â


  • To me, unless you are playing LL, the SZ 111 battle is too risky from Germany’s perspective. A scramble by the UK gives them the ability to take 5 hits to your 6.

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