I would like to start out by saying that i find the game quite balanced, luck in rolls, tactics, teamwork seem to be what makes the difference in the game for the victory :).
Saying that, i would think that if you have an extremely competent German player, you’d have to have other equally competent players for each allied position (or if your playing 1v1 just one obviously) for there to be a good game. My first turns as the Germans go mostly like this (barring that nothing crazy happens). I usually do all i can do to kill British ships in the Atlantic and Med, after all the Brits have the big navy and it will take them at least two turns to have a navy capable of standing up to anything with much force. I dont attack Americans for two reasons 1. they can replace their losses with ease, and it only sets them back a turn (plus they have to buy a navy anyway so it really doesnt put a dent into any plans. 2. attacking the Americans draws ships away from possible targets in Canada or near west side of England. But me, my friends, and my dad who i play with the most, have found that although the initial sub attacks are very important, it is nearly impossible to hold onto the seas if you want to win in Russia. At least the Atlantic anyway. The Med should be held at all costs, if the allies get at the Med sea, they are capable of litterally landing in any direction, all of which belong to you… thats alot to defend against. Plus, your other factory is there, and if the Allies make you buy units to protect it, thats more infantry that wont be used to attack Moscow, and worse case scenario, the Americans take North Italy. They hold it. Game over.
So like i said in the Med sea i do what ever it takes to secure everything there from sea attack for as many turns as possible, I also do my best to take Malta and Gibraltar. (Malta being the much more important of the two). Then i invade Libya, moving the Tunisia force down, maybe even send the North Italy fighter for air support, with those forces and with Malta gone (hopefully) the Egyptian forces will have a tough slogg to take Libya. And if they do, just pop some guys down to reinforce, the British cant afford to lose those pieces right away, you can. And from that piont launch off towards the rich oil fileds of the middle east, all the time reinforcing with troops so they can come up Russia’s preverbial butt hole.
Then the most important of maneuverings, the Eastern Front. There is a variety of ways people choose to go at this, but i think the way i like best is to head towards Stalingrad, while harrasing or attacking straight into BeloRussia, also taking Ukraine to the best of my ability. Doing this ideally would be done witht the least amount of tanks possible, savign them in the back ranks for counter attacks or further thrusts into Russia (which ever is necessary). I think the drive towards Stalingrad and the mere harrasing of other Russian troops farther north is a good strategy because it for one gets you closer to the eventual capture of a factory that is badly needed for the Germans. It also cuts off any attempts that might be made by the Russians to reinforce africa, and it gets your african troops on a path to reinforce they offensive. Stalingrad also has the least infantry defences around it. There are downsides, one of the major ones being that Stalingrad is the farthest away from Germany, making it diffucult to reinforce. Leningrad is a good one to try and seize quickly, but it is also the ones that the Russians will most expect an attack, it will be the most defended and most hard fought for. Really all you need against Leningrad to keep it heavily defended, and thus its defenders unable to help the rest of the motherland, is the infantry from Norway and Finland, with some shuttled up from Germany, and a turn buy of tanks in Poland. Those tanks are also in position to blitz in to Ukraine if needed, but they’ll be most useful to keep Leningrad in check.
Well, that went on longer then i thought it would :lol: but those are my basic steps for what to do on Germany’s first turn. I’m not saying its unbeatable, most plans that are plugged as that arent, thats just the way i do it.
In our game Germany ALWAYS wins- help us
Germany concentrates solely on attacking Russia. The German player does not leave the mainland of Europe at all-Africa is ignored except when approached by the original British forces already occupying. They send no reinforcements.
U-Boats delay transports from getting to Europe from US. Great Britain is forced to make the first strike on the mainland alone without adequate forces. They face a limited force in the French setions, but it is still formidable.
On the next turn Germany then buys 30 infantry to reinforce Germany.
Russia buys infantry but since territory and money has already been lost to the German assault, their numbers are severely limited.
Within 5 turns Moscow has fallen -game over.
We have played 15 times and the outcome does not change.
We are not about to change our strategy as the German player since we win every time, but we are looking for modification suggestions to keep the game fresh. The Allies are tired of losing.
30 infantries, taken from?
defend ukraine and belorussia with russia, then wait for allied relief.
I think you have your money mixed up a bit
1 Infantry = 3 IPCs
Germany has 40 IPCs so max infantry they can buy at the start is 13, give or take what they capture from Russia.
I had a feeling that my typo would be the thing that people would focus on and not my question. (So the infantry is more like 13 purchased on the last turn and approximately 8-10 brought in from France.)
Never the less, the Allies can not get in the game with any sort of strength to attack Germany and was wondering if someone could help us with alternate rules.
Bellorussia holds on as long as possible but eventually falls, Moscow falls on the next turn.
We were considering allowing the US and GB to move on the same turn, but are still apprehensive.
Help would be greatly appreciated.
The fact that the Axis have used the same strategy for the last 15 games and the Allies haven’t picked up on it shows something. I mean, the Axis stratey isn’t really complex or novel, it isn’t a really hard one to disect and find a flaw.
destroy the german navy asap, then focus on amphibious landings near the baltic states, western europe or germany itself. Make sure US has 3 transports near east coast, 3 transports in the celtic sea and 3 transports to attack the mainland of europe with, in that way you allways have a constant stream of troops attacking germany.
In a situation like this I find it helpful to set the game up and simply stare at it for several hours. I can then see what Germany is planning and how they go about doing it and I can see this in a much slower and easier to comprehend form than in an acctual game. This allows me to see exactly when and were my oppenent is vulnerable and I can then look for these vulnerable points in a game. This is how tactics are developed (not to be confused with stratagies).
aint no need to hide, aint no need to run, 'cuase I got you in the sights of my gun.
-Led Zeppelin, How Many More Times
[ This Message was edited by: bossk on 2002-02-10 19:27 ]
Its not the ruleset, its your tactics. First off, don’t listen to the majority of the strategies on this site. They are outdated and (no offense) aren’t written by the best players.
Now, what do you usually buy with your 12$, both with the Axis and the Allies? What are your first turn moves? Do you have an overall plan? A backup plan? How do you go about eliminating German subs quickly and painlessly?
a new player doesnt understand or is not able to perform expert strategies mate. I mean i play Age of Empires2 and i cant do expert moves simply because my basics are not good enough. People learn to play by constantly adopting better strategies from other players. If a new player only knows one or two expert strategies then there is a high chance he will lose most of his games because he cant handle a situation in which the opponent does a non-standard move.
Mr Ghoul last edited by
Yanny, How do you know who the best players are?
The reason that Germany wins in your game, is because Stalin all of a sudden became a wimp! Russia is not weak! Russia has the same power as Germany if you cost it out. Russia is supposed to ATTACK Ukraine with everything but a fighter. It ATTACKS Manchuria with everything else. . Its sub & fighter ATTACK the German sub & freighter. It’s Manchuria fighter lands on Russian soil to help in the COUNTER ATTACK of Karlia next turn. It buys a fighter and infantry and moves everything into Karleia.It’s freighter goes to Britain. Germany is now in a mess and Russia gets $30! Britain will buy a carrier and a freighter if it lost its fleet, or a complex in India and infantry for the first invasion of W.Europe. The US will land fighters on the BRITISH carrier and send its freighter to Norway if the German fighter left for good, and might attack with its bomber. Instant Fleet! Can’t be stopped, because Russia can not be ignored and Africa can’t be ignored etc etc. Allies build complexes in Asia, but the 3/4 effort is to Germany. Germany must be attacked in ever increasing numbers in w. europe over the whole game, while Russia uses the distraction to build up a tank/infantry/fighter/bomber army that can keep exchanging infantry with germany and gradually holding Germany’s three countries for $8. And keep Japan in a game of attrition. Then all the Allies move in for tense rounds against a desperate and weakened Germany trying to attack the weakest left or right side, but eventually loosing this sad game of attrition. Germany is eventually whittled down to a few infantry and is partially destroyed by the English, then the US,and before the Germans have their turn, the Russians finish the last German unit and the game is over. Oh yes, The Allied fleet parks in Spain and slowly builds up an African army if neccessary to kick the germans out, and deny them the money for infantry for Berlin. But the Allies end up with at least 8 freighters off Spain and an unbroken train of infantry and tanks coming from both US and Britain.
This is how I have done it and had it done to me for years and years. Enjoy!
Well, by the sound of his post, it sounds like he used to strategy “Belorussia stack”. Now, although the strategies on our site (not out forums) widely support it, it is usually going to lose the game for russia.
Now, heres my suggestion. Keep your russian defenses equal. hold off the Germans for as long as you can. Stand your ground where you can, and retreat when needed. Theres no set strategy for defending Russia in AAE. Its a chess match, with Russia playing second. Its all about Action and Reaction.
Just sitting in Belorussia gives Germany a huge advantage. He has the initiative. This is something you do not want to give him.
The ‘stack defense’ is for uncreative strategists who do not know how to create a strong delaying defense.
A follow up, Russia has tremendous firepower in terms of tanks, airforce, and whatever it gets from the Allies. It should not be put to waste in some sort of stack defense, that does nothing.
Use the “Russian Patriotic War” rule more. Fly some fighters over to russia. If Germany basically abandons everything for a full-out offensive against russia, well yes, they will win without the allies help. Dont waste your time “pawn-grabbing” the germany subs if they aren’t what is really beating you. It sounds like whats beating the allies is that Russia cant hold out, therefore you have to augment their defenses. Toss Russia a fighter once per turn from turn one and I guarantee they will last past the 5th turn. 15 ground troops become about 3 times more powerful defending when you add a few fighters to the mix.
U.S. - if you still have the capability, dump off a couple infantry in Morocco on the first turn, If the german player dosn’t pay much attention to africa as you say, he probably wont miss that 4 IPC’s its worth.
Funny that the allies are having such a hard time over there, I’ve played this version of the game about 8 times and germany has one only twice; the first six times germany lost horribly.
Remember that by taking sea zones the germans dont move up on the IPC income, the allies are moved down only. (we had that messed up too at first)
that is really wierd, the first time we played the game we moved the germany ipc counter up when capturing a convoy too… doh!
anyway, regarding germany… if germany keeps winning against the allies, the allies are clearly doing something wrong. The key to allied victory is this: help russia! fighters can be flown to leningrad (if still help) bombers to moscow. when germany exhasts themselves in russia, the uk and us should invade… timing is the key. make sure the atlantic is won before massing an invasion fleet off spain. grab norway as close to the start as possible. this allows allied planes to strategically bomb germany with fighter support. -v.important. usa to build bombers and destroyers from the start. send the bombers to malta: bomb italy. use the destroyers to help the uk mop up the atlantic. once this is done, harry the germans in western europe. Russia should build artillary as well as troops… they are cheap and allow effective counter attacks.
guard caucasus… it is worth 4…
anyway, these are a host of ideas that people can use…
Angel, this is A&A Europe, not the classic one…
Russia has to retreat a lot (and its not fun) in order to eventually get a bigger army in the rear of the front. Germany will spread out thin from and you can get them with your big army. If germany has a 20 unit army, dont try to stick 4 or 5 infantry to slow them down. It will all die in the first round of attack and therfor only shoot once. Its best to leave territories with only 1 infantry to block blitzs. If you can, use other allied troops to block instead of russian troops. It is always better to retreat and fight with greater force later, than to be slaightered.
The people I play with are very good, and when one side makes one stupid mistake, it usualy ends the game. Always tripple check and make sure your important troops aren’t gonna be slaughtered.
Remember the Dead Zones. Its pointless to sit and sacrifice your troops in a battle you can’t win. Keep retreating.
FIRST THE ONLY REASON TO LEAVE MEN BEHIND IS IF YOU ARE AFRAID OF TANK ATTACK. THE RED ARMY IS NOT AFRAID OF TANK ATTACK WITH NO INFANTRY SUPPORT. THERE’S THAT CONCEPT AGAIN OF COMBINED ARMS WITH IT ALL YOUR SHALLOW STRATEGIES FALL BLEEDING TO THE SIDE. FALL BACK AND COUNTER ATTACK, BLOODY THE ENEMIES NOSE, BOMB HIS AIRFIELDS, HAMMER UNPROTECTED TANKS. FEAR OF ATTACK WILL SLOW THE GERMAN ADVANCE BETTER THAN WASTING YOUR MEN.POUR ALLIED AIR INTO THE SOVIET UNION AS THE RED ARMY GROWS TO 60+ INFANTRY WITH 6 TANKS 6 ARTILLERY 4 FTRS & 3 BMBRS, NOT A FORCE TO BE TRIFLED WITH AND ASIDE FROM THE LIMITED ARTILLERY HIGHLY MOBILE.SO BRING YOUR BIG BAD GERMAN ASS UP TO OUR RUSSIAN WINTER WE’LL EAT YOU FOR BREAKFAST! 6 TURNS MY BEHIND.
There is no way Russia can ever generate 60+ infantry. I mean, if Germany is industrial bombing Russia while attacking it with most of its forces for 5 to 6 continuous turns, Russia will never amass such an army.
As for your continual harping about your “combined arms” doctrine, it makes sense but it is hard to apply to a board game and to certain countries with specific objectives/tactics/limitations (i.e. IPC income).
Russia must of luck and tenacity. strategic bombing is rough going with fighter cover & AA to fly through and as a player not a combatant I can be less tied to land. You can return the favor as well for Germany is an easy target from Leningrad (ftr covr), the Soviets must make the Germans pay for every inch. As the germans move in without air cover the fist of the soviet army and air corps must be able to punch and hard. Whether you think I can have that many infantry doesn’t matter, you start with 44 and the allies provide all air power ( and later ground units. The Allies job is to harass the flanks of the germans and threaten invasion of Europe ( pulling resources from the soviet front). The ocean protects the U.S. & Britain (w/ infantry for England in #'s to deter quick attack.The germans can certaintly defeat the allies but luck and poor play by the allies are essential for victory. Germany is certaintly the power “easiest” to win with simply due to their massive force at the beginning of the game. The novice will stand and fight while the more experienced will simply fight to cover retreat while planning always planning counterattack. Perhaps the flaw is you play to fast. These are wargames and wars (in these days) occured over years. To take time to plan and map out NEW strategy during play is for me not only the most accurate part of play but the most fun. The posting previously about looking at the board for hours is correct only do not simply ponder before play do it during. Yes I know this makes games last forever but they will be great games and no won will lose for making a rushed decision(this is NOT battlefield tactics this is large scale campaign strategy)for no one enjoys a hollow victory.I believe there is untold innovation on history possible the bigger a field(board) we can play on. Speaking of which what big boards are out there or have some of you made your own?
Russia must attack :evil: If Russia just retreats and defends, game over. Germany takes out the fleets on his first turn, and cripples uk’s ipc (convoys). By the time the US and UK can create a fleet large enough to threaten Germany, it is too late. Germany concentrates all its power on Russia, with the stack principle. To do anything else is folly. Russia must hole Leningrad so that reinforcement fighters and bombers can come from the US and UK. By building infantry and artillary, Russia has a substantial attack force and defence with low cost. The converted aircraft support the attacks, making them quite effective, but because they can’t land on newly conquered territory, they are always out of harms way.
All and all, this still comes down to a dice rolling match. If the dice are good, Russia can win, but it is tough.
Every time I’ve played this, with the standard rules, Germany wins. All other forums with good players agree, even Avalon Hill agrees that the game favors Germany.
You can try things like introducing research tech, cause that can make a world of difference (especially if russia gets industrial tech).
Every time I’ve played this, with the standard rules, Germany wins. All other forums with good players agree, even Avalon Hill agrees that the game favors Germany.
hmmm… strange. I don’t think the game favors germany. In 60% of the game i saw with standard rules the Allies win… only by removing Allies starting 12 IPC or by inversing it (Allies put the IPC first, Germany second) it is well balanced.
the americans can always move planes and bombers over the bockade to lenningrad where germany can use them in defence. fighters will have to stop in ireland or britain to make the trip