Historically accurate setup



  • I read the bonehead European setup thread and it really got me thinking.

    people saying that if the RN stays afloat its game over. But it stayed afloat historically so that means that something is missing in the game or the current setup needs to be drastically changed if you want it to be historical. Now historically, professionals have stated that hitler could of won many times but simple mistakes messed him up ( do not argue this i dont want to get off track ) the reason i am stating this is to show that we can have a more historically accurate setup and still have it “balanced”.

    If we got the RN to have to chase down subs in the atlantic, and change the RN a little bit so they can bombard less, then we can see more sea combat, and have the RN do what it actually did. i dont know about you guys but i play silent hunter and i watch tons of uboat movies. You dont have to be on the coast of britain to sink merchant vessels…… if we changed it so certain seazones ( i cant name em yet i gotta check the board first ) that have a german warship or uboat in it cause an automatic loss of 1 ipc to the UKs economy, and if theres a warship in a convoy sea zone that equals 3 ipcs lost (limit 12 ipcs a turn total?), then the RN is going to be going around the atlantic trying to sink all the uboats and wont be sitting around the UK all the time.

    i think changing the way convoys are disrupted are good because it will speed up the game.

    if by changing the composition of UKs deployment, we can make the game more interesting, historical and balanced.

    The #'s i gave for convoys are ballpark guesses, what do you think will be most balanced?

    I know this thread is long to read but i wanna see if we can compile ideas and work off of each other to find the most historically accurate and balanced setup possible. The bonehead thread got way too off track. id love to do this but id have a hard time balancing everything on my own. cmon lets do this guys!!!





  • This is a more historical setup. Lets do some tests of germany going then UK and repeat for a couple turns to see what needs changing.

    UK: - 1 inf, -1 french inf, -1 mech inf, - 1 french ftr.      + 2 ftr, + 1 tac ftr.

    Scotland: - 1 inf

    SZ’s

    106: - 1 transport

    109: - 1 transport.     + 1 Cruiser, + 1 AC /w ftr and tac, + 1 sub ( there were some subs historically here, but i dont know if this will play out good )

    110: + 1 DD

    111: - 1 Cruiser, - 1 BB.     + 2 or 3 DD ( there was a ���� ton of DD’s here ) maybe even 4?? gotta balance it

    119: + 1 DD

    Germany: there will 1 sub in each of the following SZ’s : 103,104,107,108,112,117,118,124.   remove the transport from SZ 114

    NOW for an alternate rule i would like to propose. A new way that convoy disruptions are conducted.
    the following SZ’s are now going to be referred to as ROUTES ( convoy routes ). SZ with the convoy marker on them, ex. SZ 109 are called CONVOY

    ROUTES: 102,103,104,107,108,110,111,??112?? yes/no?, 116,117,118,124,125.

    k here we go.    Any axis warship or plane that has not done combat this round that is located in a Route SZ will cause the loss of 1 ipc from UKe income. no more than 2 ipcs can be lost from a single route. ex: 3 subs in SZ 107 equal a loss of 2 ipcs. Any axis warship that has not done combat this round that is located in a Convoy SZ will cause the loss of 3 ipcs (planes cause the loss of 1 ipc) to the maximum amount of ipcs neighboring territories can produce. ex. Brittan can only lose 6 to a convoy raid. A total of no more than 12 ipcs can be lost on a turn.

    So if there are 3 subs in SZ 109 ( i think its 109, what ever one is attached to both Brittan and Scotland ) will cause 8 ipcs to be lost, 6 from Brittan and 2 from Scotland. they normally would cause 9 to be lost though. that leaves 4 more ipcs than can be lost but only through route raiding. that would require a sub in SZ 103, and 2 in SZ 104, for example.

    there were BB"s in SZ 109 historically but i think that may be overpowered if i put one there, there was also the HMS Hood located there……till the bizmark taught her a lesson.

    O.k thats what i got for now, PLEASE lets do some playtesting and see where this takes us. Tell me what you think should change please and thank you.


  • '16 '15 '14 Customizer

    Hmmm…my first thought is what will keep the German player from using his 8 subs to go take out the Royal navy again instead of on convoys? But I like the train of thought - Britain’s navy should stay largely intact, as it did during the war.



  • this is still all subject to change. i wanna see what we all think. try it out. attack with all 8 subs. i dont think it will work too well to be honest. if its too effective, we can add a BB to sz 109?

    i wanna see how this will play out, will uk be more fun to play, while being balanced and being more historically accurate???



  • When AA40 first came out, I actually did quite a bit of research on the navies.  If you want something pretty close to historically accurate, here are the actual numbers:

    BB = battleship (includes battlecruisers)
    CA = heavy cruiser
    CL = light cruiser
    DD = destroyer
    CV = carrier
    SS = sub

    Britain
    Active at start:  16 x BB, 18 x CA, 46 x CL, 202 x DD, 6 x CV, 78 x SS
    Nearly completed:  1 x BB, 6 x CL, 65 x DD (includes lend-lease), 2 x CV, 13 x SS
    Partially built:  5 x BB, 2 x CL, 5 x CV

    United States
    Active at start:  15 x BB, 18 x CA, 19 x CL, 118 x DD, 7 x CV, 112 x SS
    Nearly completed:  2 x BB, 15 x DD
    Partially built:  4 x BB, 1 x CV

    France
    Active at start:  8 x BB, 7 x CA, 11 x CL, 70 x DD, 76 x SS
    Nearly completed:  1 x BB
    Partially built:  1 x BB

    USSR
    Active at start:  3 x BB (old and slow, but still dangerous to cruisers and smaller), 4 x CA, 2 x CL, 68 x DD, 218 x SS
    Nearly completed:  1 x BB
    Partially built:  1 x BB, 1 x CA

    Germany
    Active at start:  4 x BB, 7 x CA, 6 x CL, 26 x DD, 240 x SS
    Nearly completed:  16 x DD, 240 x SS
    Partially built:  2 x CA, 1 x CV

    Netherlands
    5 x CL, 10-12 x DD

    Japan
    Active at start:  10 x BB, 18 x CA, 20 x CL, 108 x DD, 8 x CV, 68 x SS
    Nearly completed:  2 x BB, 15 x DD, 3 x CV
    Partially built:  2 x CL, 3 x CV

    Italy
    Active at start:  6 x BB, 9 x CA, 13 x CL, 59 x DD 146 x SS
    Nearly completed:  0
    Partially built:  1 x BB, 4 x CL, 2 x CV

    ANZAC
    Active at start:  3 x CA, 3 x CL, 12 x DD

    Now, figuring out what formula to use to convert to A&A ratios is tricky, but I like:

    BB = 1-4
    CA/CL = 1-10
    DD = 1-18
    CV = 1-3
    SS = 1-40

    So, at start, it would look like this (rounding fractions of .5 up):

    Britain:  4 x BB, 6 x CA, 11 x DD, 2 x CV, 2 x SS
    USA:  4 x BB, 4 x CA, 7 x DD, 2 x CV, 3 x SS
    France:  2 x BB, 2 x CA, 4 x DD, 2 x SS
    USSR:  1 x BB, 1 x CA, 4 x DD, 5 x SS (can have 2xDD and 2 x SS trapped in Black Sea for balance)
    Germany:  1 x BB, 1 x CA, 1 x DD, 6 x SS
    Netherlands:  1 x DD (at Java)
    Italy:  2 x BB, 2 x CA, 3 x DD, 4 x SS
    ANZAC:  1 x CA, 1 x DD
    Japan:  3 x BB, 4 x CA, 6 x DD, 3 x CV, 2 x SS


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 '13 Moderator

    Nice work.



  • thats alot more research than i did !!

    but having 4 battleships is insane. that would way too massive and nothing would be able to deal  with it.
    we dont know where those ships were located. some could of been in the med, or the pacific.

    if you measured BB at 1-5 and DD as 1-20 or something like that then the setup is really close at the moment. Except for france and ussr. and mhaving usa start with 4 BB might break the game lol

    france had a battleship off the coast of alexandria but i havnt looked into the med yet because i wanna see whats balanced first.

    has anyone done some quick playthroughs of the setup i proposed? id like to have outside input.

    i wanna get this as close to being historical as balance will allow. maybe even sacrifice some balance. idk yet. all help appreciated.



  • If anyone can compile a similar list of land units I could whip up an appropriate 1940+ setup.

    More units, same time frame.

    And I am also intrigued with the following mechanics:

    North Atlantic shipping (putting down UK roundels in SZ and letting Germany shoot them for raiding purposes)

    With all the more units on the board, “Defender Retreats” rules (especially with the larger navies now on the board)
    Powers not at war yet wouldn’t be able to retreat on defense.
    The rule would probably allow the attacker an extra round of shooting, then the defender retreats instead of returning fire.
    (bonuses for mechs and tanks when retreating in defense, perhaps they can shoot at 1 & 2 respectively when retreating)
    OR
    an “organized withdrawal” rule
    Each side rolls a die at the end of each round.
    If the defender rolled higher, he can retreat the difference in units immediately
    If the attacker rolled higher, he can re-roll the difference in dice next combat phase.



  • your withdrawl thingy is confusing the shit outta me. i think combat is fine as is.

    i wanna see IL, gargantua, young grasshopper, kreig and other ppl who played this a million times post here. i want input!!!  😢



  • Here’s what I worked up earlier this year as a best approximation of a realistic set up for June 1940. Maybe it will be useful?

    http://www.mediafire.com/view/?9mk44tmx00b8ozx


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Germany:
    18 Infantry, 5 tanks, 3 mechanized, 3 artillery

    UK:
    6 Infantry, 2 tanks, 3 mechanized, 2 Artillery

    BEF:
    1 Mechanized, 1 Inf, 1 Artillery

    Commonwealth:

    India:
    1 tank
    2 Infantry

    Australia:
    1 tank,1 Infantry

    Canada:
    1 Infantry

    African:
    1 Inf

    South Africa:
    1 Inf

    Italy:
    15 Infantry
    1 Tank
    2 Mechanized
    2 Artillery

    1 Inf in Ethiopia ( colonial)

    Romania:
    4 Infantry, 1 Mechanized, 1 Artillery

    Finland:
    3 Infantry

    USA:
    4 Inf, 1 Tank, 1 Artillery

    USSR:
    25 Infantry, 4 tanks, 4 Mechanized, 5 Artillery

    Japan:
    10 Infantry, 1 Mechanized, 2 Artillery

    ( Infantry placement: 6 in China, 2 In Manchuria, 1 in Japan)

    Bulgaria:
    3 Infantry, 1 Artillery

    Hungary:
    3 Infantry, 1 Artillery

    China:
    11 Infantry, 1 Artillery

    Extrapolation of Armed forces 6/1/40 was done based on the following ratios:

    Land:
    5 infantry divisions = 1 unit
    2 Armor Divisions = 1 unit
    3 Motorized Divisions/ Mechanized = 1 unit
    Artillery (subjective based on level of artillery in infantry and other factors)

    Sea:
    3 Battleships = 1 unit
    4 Carriers = 1 unit
    10 Cruisers = 1 unit
    20 Destroyers = 1 unit
    30 submarines = 1 unit
    2,000,000 Gross Tons of Merchant Shipping ( rounded up) = 1 Unit

    Air:
    200-250 Front line Fighters = 1 unit
    200-250 Front line Fighter- Bombers= 1 unit
    450-500 Front line Bombers= 1 unit

    Round up or down depending on quality overall.

    Germany:
    26 infantry, 5 tanks, 3 mech, 4 artillery, 5 fighters, 2 bombers, 2 tactical bombers
    1 BB, 2 CA, 2 DD, 8 SS, 2 AP

    Italy:
    15 infantry, 1 tank, 2 mech, 2 artillery, 2 bombers, 2 fighters (1 in Italian East Africa), 1 tactical bomber.
    2 BB, 2 CA, 3 DD, 5 SS, 1 AP

    Japan:
    10 infantry, 1 mech, 2 artillery ( from this in China, 6 inf) also, 2 Manchuria, 1 Japan)
    3 BB,3 CV, 3 CA, 5 DD, 2 SS, 3 AP Land Based air: 2 fighters, 1 tactical bomber, 1 bomber. Sea Based air: 3 fighters, 3 tactical bombers

    Romania:
    5 Infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery, 1 fighter

    Finland:
    5 infantry, 1 artillery

    Hungary:
    5 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 tank

    Bulgaria:
    3 infantry, 1 artillery, ( they should have 1 fighter as they had 300 fighters at end of 1940)

    Sweden:
    4 Infantry, 1 tank, 1 artillery, 1 fighter

    Greece:
    3 Infantry, 1 AP

    Argentina:
    4 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 CA

    Brazil:
    4 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 AP

    Iraq:
    2 Infantry

    France:
    16 infantry, 6 mech, 3 tanks, 2 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 tactical bomber (air force was not ready and mostly destroyed by June 1940)
    2 BB, 2 CA, 3 DD, 3 SS, 1 AP

    United Kingdom: Global
    6 infantry, 3 mech, 1 tank, 2 artillery, 2 fighters, 2 bombers, 1 tactical bomber
    5 BB, 1 CV, 4 CA, 10 DD, 2 SS, 8 AP

    BEF:
    1 Infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery

    ANZAC:
    1 infantry, 1 tank, 1 DD, 1 AP ( Australian)

    Canada:
    1 infantry, 1 DD, 1 AP

    India:
    2 infantry, 1 tank

    Africa:
    1 infantry

    South Africa:
    1 Infantry

    Soviet Union:
    25 infantry, 4 tanks, 4 mech, 5 artillery, 3 fighters, 1 tactical bomber, 1 bomber ( rated Soviets lower due to huge issues on quality and doctrine, but on paper they had the largest air force easily)
    1 BB, 3 DD, 7 SS, 2 AP  ( on the Manchurian border:6 Infantry, 2 Mech, 2 artillery 1 tanks, 1 fighter)

    United States:
    4 infantry, 1 tank, 1 artillery. Sea Based air: 2 fighters 1 tactical bomber Land Based air: 2 bombers, 2 fighters, 1 tactical bomber
    4 BB,2 CV, 4 CA, 5 DD, 4 SS, 4 AP

    China:
    11 infantry, 1 artillery

    Chile:
    3 Infantry

    Spain:
    6 Infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 DD, 1 AP

    Turkey:
    5 Infantry, 1 armor, 2 artillery, 1 DD

    Dutch:
    1 DD



  • Thanks for posting IL, put its kinda confusing. im going to take a look at the map when i get home and try to figure things out


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I just copied a file i had. The totals in the second part supersede any conflicts from the first. The file is old and i don’t know why they in some cases have different totals


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Here is another file i got. Sorry about formatting issues, but you should be able to get something out of this.

    Ship Type BB CV CA DD SS AP Fighter T Bomber
    Germany 1 1 2 2 1
    Italy 2 2 3 3 1
    Japan 3 2 3 5 2 4
    UK 4 2 4 8 2 6
    USSR 1 1 1 1
    France 2 2 3 3 1
    Anzac 1
    USA 3 2 3 8 4 6
    Spain 1 1
    Argentina 1
    Brazil 1
    Turkey
    Dutch 1

    BB  3
    CV  4
    CA 10
    DD 20
    SS  30
    AP
    FIGHTER
    T BOMBER
    BOMBER

    http://www.members.tripod.com/~marcin_w/index-soam.html
    http://ww2f.com/north-africa-mediterranean/27491-turkey-ww2.html
    http://members.tripod.com/marcin_w/index-2.html
    http://ww2total.com/WW2/History/Orders-of-Battle/Great-Britain/British-and-Empire-Armies-September-1939.htm

    by the end of 1940 Bulgaria had around 300 combat aircraft,
    In spring of 1941, the mobilized Bulgarian armed forces consisted of 16 infantry divisions, two cavalry divisions, one motorized brigade, seven air regiments

    Organisation: In May 1940, the French Army on the north-east front, which stretched from Switzerland to the North Sea, was divided into the 1st and 2nd Army Groups and the 7th Army.
    These forces comprised:
    � 63 infantry divisions (of which 30 were regular) ;
    � 7 motorised infantry divisions;
    � 3 armoured divisions;
    � 3 light mechanised divisions;
    � 5 cavalry divisions;
    � 13 fortress divisions.
    � The general reserve comprised a further 17 infantry, 2 motorised and 3 armoured divisions.
    French Air Force
    The Air Force had suffered considerable neglect between the wars, and its performance in 1940, with machines which were in general much inferior to those of the enemy, was not impressive. Indeed, according to French sources, only 420 modern fighters and 31 heavy bombers were serviceable when the Germans struck in May.
    Total French front line strength on 10 May 1940 was 1,604 aircraft (764 fighters, 260 bombers, 180 reconaissance planes, 400 liaison aircrafts).
    Total strenght of the French Air Force together with Aviation Colonaile: 1,200 fighters, 800 reconaissance planes, 1,300 bombers.
    Equipment of Luftwaffe First Line Units on September 1, 1939
    Aircraft Strength
    He111 bombers
    780
    Do17 bombers
    470
    Do17 reconaissance 280
    Ju88 bombers
    20
    Ju87 dive-bombers
    335
    Bf109D fighters
    235
    Bf109E fighters
    850
    Bf110 destroyers
    195
    Ar66 fighters 5
    Ar68 fighters 35
    Hs126 tactical reconaissance 195
    He46 tactical reconaissance 100
    Coastal aircrafts 205
    Miscellaneous 65
    Total 3,960

    Approximate organisation strength of the major types of the German Army divisions in 1939:
    Infantry Division motorised Infantry Division Mountain Division Panzer Division Light Division
    Units total 87 4 3 5 4
    Officers 500 500 ? 400 400
    Officials 100 100 ? 100 100
    NCOs 2,500 2,500 ? 2,000 1,600
    Privates 13,400 13,400 ? 9,300 8,700
    Total men 16,500
    (35 divisions from first wave 18,000) 16,500 ? 11,800 10,800
    Infantry Regiments 3 with 3,000 men each 3 with 3,000 men each 2 with 3,000 men each 2 with 3,000 men each 1 or 2 with 2,000 or 3,000 men each
    Machine guns MG34
    500 500 220 220 460
    Mortars 140
    (54 x 8.1cm, others 5cm) 140
    (54 x 8.1cm, others 5cm) 90 50 60
    Infantry guns 25
    (6 x 15cm, others 7.5cm) 25
    (6 x 15cm, others 7.5cm) 14
    (2 x 15cm, 12 x 7.5cm) 10 10
    AT Pak 3,7 cm
    75 75 48
    (6 x 4.7cm) 50 50
    Howitzers and guns 48
    (12 x 15cm, others 10.5cm leFH)
    48
    (12 x 15cm, others 10.5cm leFH)
    32
    (16 x 7.5cm, 8 x 10.5cm leFH, 8 x 15cm) 28 24
    (10.5cm leFH)

    AA Flak 2 cm
    12 12 12 12 12
    Armored Cars 3 30 - 100 100
    Tanks - - - 324 86
    Trucks 500 1,700 - 1,400 1,400
    Cars 400 1,000 - 560 600
    Motorcycles 500 1,300 - 1,300 1,100
    Sidecars 200 600 - 700 600
    Horses 5,000 - ? - -
    Horse-drawn carriages 1,000

    Basic British Army units:
    Infantry Division (motorised) Armoured Division
    Total units 25 1
    Infantry brigades 3 with 2,340 men and 99 officers each 2 battalions with 1,560 men and 66 officers together
    Total men 13,600 ?
    Artillery 36 x 18 pounders, 36 x 4.5inch Howitzers or 18/25 pounders ?
    Anti-tank guns 75
    (2 pounders or 25mm) ?
    Tanks 28 light tanks, 44 Universal Bren carriers 104 cruiser tanks, 20 scout cars

    British Forces total:
    897,000 men, 26 divisions, 1,146 tanks, about 2,600 guns
    1,911 planes (747 fighters, 871 bombers)
    15 capital ships, 6 aircraft carriers, 61 cruisers, 181 destroyers, 59 submarines

    The peacetime strength of the Japanese army was 17 divisions.
    By 1940 it had 2 divisions in Japan and Korea, 12 in Manchuria and 27 in China (total 41 divisions).
    Even in 1943 the commitment in China still amounted to 25 infantry divisions, 1 armoured division, 11 mixed brigades, 1 cavalry brigade and 1 flying division - a total of 620,000 men and 14,000 vehicles. This force, known as the Kwantung Army, was called upon to provide a constant stream of reinforcements for the Pacific War, and by 1945 its units were understrength and too weak to pose any real threat.
    The Manchurian Army proper in 1939 had a strength of some 75,000 men in infantry and cavalry units.
    Basic Japanese fighting units:
    Infantry Division Armoured Division Army Amphibious Brigade Navy Naval Landing Force
    Total units 40 1 ? ?
    Infantry regiments 3
    (aprox. 2,500 officers and men each) 1 brigade
    (3,800 officers and men) 3 battalions with 3,200 officers and men 2,000 officers and men
    Cavalry regiments 1
    (950 officers and men) - - -
    Total men ? 10,500 4,000 aprox. 3,500
    Machine guns 120
    (only in MG companies) ? ? ?
    Howitzers and Fieldguns 66
    (48 x 75mm, 18 x 70mm + independent field artillery companies) 12
    (8 x 105mm, 4 x 155mm) ? 8
    (4 x 3inch, 2 x 75mm, 2 x 70mm)
    Anti-tank guns 18
    (37mm) 18
    (47mm) ? ?
    Anti-aircraft guns ? 20
    (4 x 75mm, 16 x 20mm) ? ?
    Tanks 10-17
    (tankettes) 270 - -
    Vehicles aprox. 300 1,580

    Army Air Force:
    There was no independent Japanese air force. The Army and the Navy each had their own air service. Each was nominally controlled by the Emperor. Actual control was vested in the General Staff, the Army and Navy Ministries and the Inspector General of Aviation.
    The function of the Japanese Army Air Service was to provide support for the ground troops and to conduct counter-air force operations. It was not expected to initiate strategic operations on its own behalf, as was the case with the RAF for instance.
    The Air Service was relatively small at the outbreak of war and Japan’s highly-trained pilots were soon casualties. Their replacements lacked the necessary flying ability to take on the growing technical and numerical superiority of the Americans. Partly as a response to this shortage kamikaze aircraft were introduced. The kamikaze aircraft was simply an aimed bomb in which the pilot sat over an explosive charge and aimed the aircraft at the target. First used at Leyte Gulf, these planes caused some consternation to the American forces; but overall their effect was negligible to the final outcome of the conflict.
    The Japanese Army Air Service was organised into five air armies with clear areas of operations. Coordination was achieved between the Army and the Air Service by placing the air forces in each theatre under the command of the theatre commander. The largest Japanese tactical organisation was the air division, two or more of which would form an air army. Beneath this was the air brigade; two air brigades formed an air division. The composition of the brigade was flexible. Its HQ was small and concerned primarily with tactical planning. It was usually composed of three or four air regiments; each regiment was equipped with the same type of aircraft (fighters, or light or medium bombers) divided into three or four companies. The company was the most important operational unit; it was normally of nine aircraft, divided into three sections, each of three aircraft.
    The total strength of the Japanese Army Air Service in 1940 was 36 fighter (324 planes), 28 light (252 planes) and 22 medium bomber (198 planes) and 29 reconnaissance companies (261 planes), with a personnel total of 33,000 officers and men.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Naval Air Force:
    Apart from 370 training and reserve machines, the Japanese Naval Air Force totalled aprox. 1,400 aircraft. There were 660 fighters, 330 carrier-borne strike aircraft, 240 twin-engined shore-based torpedo-bombers specifically intended for fleet cooperation, and 520 flying boats and seaplanes.
    All these aircraft were organised in the Combined Air Fleet, based at Kanoya, and were subduvided into the 1st Air Fleet (the Carrier Fleet) and the 11th Air Fleet (under Vice-Admiral Nishizo Tsukuhura) shore-based in Formosa and Indo-China. The fleets were further divided into air flotillas (each commanded by a rear-admiral), which where themselves composed of two or more air groups. Each air group comprised a base unit and 12 to 36 aircraft with 4 to 12 in reserve, depending on size. The combat formation was the air division of about nine aeroplanes.
    During 1939-40, the Soviet armed forces were undergoing a period of transition. New weapons and tactical ideas were being developed, but misguided and often stultifying central control meant that there was little sense of initiative or responsibility, and important advances in any sphere were often left in isolation. The excellent progress made in tank construction, for instance, was counterbalanced by the absence of an effective radio-communication system, without which tanks were severely restricted.
    The Soviet Union placed great reliance on cavalry because of vast distances, poor road and rail communications and the inability of Soviet industry to provide vehicles for all of such a huge army.
    The Soviet Union was divided into 13 military districts and 2 military commissariats.
    The Army was essentially a standing army which was run by professional cadre, but it relied on conscription for the mass of its personnel. Men were liable for military service for a period of 22 years from the age of 20 to 41.
    The peacetime strength of the army was estimated at 1,800,000 men, while mobilised strength could be as high as 11,000,000.
    The baleful influence of Stalin over the Soviet armed forces during the 1930s culminated in the purges of 1938 which decimated the officer corps. Almost inevitably, the most able and outspoken officers were destroyed by the purges and this was a significant factor in the poor performance of the Red Army in the Winter War against Finland in 1939. It has been estimated that Soviet casualties were about 200,000 men during this short campaign.
    Basic Red Army units:
    Rifle Division Cavalry Division Heavy Tank Brigade Light Tank Brigade
    Total units 110
    (including 23 Territorial divisions) 44 4 21
    Infantry regiments 3 with 2,900 officers and men each 2 motorised rifle battalions
    (total approx. 1,900 officers and men) 2,745 officers and men 2,745 officers and men
    Cavalry
    regiments - 4 - -
    Total men 19,000 ? ? ?
    Machine guns 417
    (174 heavy 7.62mm Maxim, 243 light 7.62mm Degtyares) ? ? ?
    Mortars 100+
    (50 to 120mm) ? ? ?
    Howitzers and Fieldguns 100
    (12 x 152mm, 28 x 122mm, 42 x 76mm, 18 infantry guns) approx. 50
    (76mm) 46 guns, self-propelled or moved by tractors 46 guns, self-propelled or moved by tractors
    Anti-tank guns 72
    (45mm) ? ? ?
    Tanks 22 T-26, 16 T-37
    64
    (BT or armoured cars) 136 T-28 (one Brigade with 2/3 T-35s), 37 BT, 10 flame-thrower tanks 278 BT or 267 T-26
    Lorries and tractors ? ? 521 521

    Red Air Force
    Throughout the 1920’s and 1930’s the Soviet Government made enormous efforts to build up a large modern air force, but the difficulties in finding suitable designs and the machines and materials to mass produce aircraft were enormous.
    To overcome the lack of pilots and mechanics the government poured money into the voluntary organisation Osoaviakhim (Society for the Support of Defence, Aviation and Chemical Defence). Soon after its formation in 1927 it had a membership of three million which had grown to 13 million by 1936. Aero clubs were set up to provide pilots, mechanics and parachutists, and until 1940 all Red Air Force volunteers came from this source. Shortages of instructors, training aids and aircraft meant that the standard attained was very low, however, and it was finally decided to select Air Force recruits from the annual military draft.
    Between 1935 and 1937, 3,576 aircraft, including a large proportion of four-engined bombers, were produced, but as the numbers increased so effectiveness decreased because the technical standard of the aircraft industry was falling behind developments in more advanced industrial nations.
    The Red Air Force had its first practical experience in the Spanish Civil War and this resulted in certain organisational and operational changes, but it was the traumatic experience of the Winter War against Finland (in which some 1,000 Soviet aircraft were lost) that really showed up the alarming shortcomings in training, tactics and equipment. Red Air Force commanders were not ignorant of these defects but the purges of 1937-1938, which removed many senior commanders, meant that the remedies undertaken were not necessarily the most effective.
    The Air Force of the Red Army (VVS-RKKA) was divided into two basic components. The first was the Air Force of the Red Army which consisted of fighter and ground attack regiments under the direct control of a Military District (later Front). The second component was the Long-Range Bomber Force which was at the disposal of the State Commissariat of Defence for tactical deployment on any front when necessary.
    In April 1939 a thorough re-organisation within the Air Force took place. The largest formation was now the air division, which comprised between four and six air regiments (formerly brigades). Each regiment consisted of about 60 aircraft with additional reserve planes (usually about 40 aircraft).
    There were three types of Air Regiment:
    bomber regiments with four squadrons of 12 aircraft each;
    fighter regiments with four squadrons of 15 aircraft each;
    ground attack regiments with four squadrons of 15 aircraft each.
    The squadron was divided into wings of three aircraft.
    The Air Force attached to a Military District or Front included a number of fighter and bomber regiments, while mixed regiments with both bomber and fighter components were attached to army corps, which also retained their own reconnaissance squadrons.
    important aircraft types in 1939 number of planes
    Beriev MBR-2 flying boat approx. 1,500 built 1933-42
    Illyushin II-4 bomber 1,528 built 1937-39
    Polikarpov I-15 fighter
    approx. 1,000+
    Polikarpov I-16 fighter approx. 5,000
    Tupolev SB-2 bomber approx. 6,000 built 1936-1941
    Tupolev TB-3 heavy bomber 800 built 1931-1939
    Total Finnish Forces at the Winter War:
    400,000 men, 9 divisions
    145 planes
    2 coast defence ships, 5 submarines

    http://ww2total.com/WW2/History/Orders-of-Battle/Fleets-September-1939.htm

    By May 1940, the number of divisions in the German army was as follows:
    • 129 infantry divisions;
    • 8 motorised infantry divisions (3 Waffen-SS);
    • 10 panzer divisions;
    • 3 mountain divisions;
    • 1 cavalry division;
    • 2 airborne divisions;
    In addition the SS-Verfuegungstruppe (from April 1940, known as the Waffen-SS) provided three motorised infantry divisions and a brigade. There were now over two-and-a-half million men under arms in the German Army, of which the Waffen-SS contributed about 100,000.
    For the invasion of France the German Army was organised into three army groups:
    Army Group A (von Rundstedt) with 45 1/2 divisions including 7 panzer;
    Army Group B (von Bock) with 29 1/2 divisions including 3 panzer, and
    Army Group C (von Leeb) with 19 divisions.
    Army Group C held a defensive position against the Maginot Line while the main offensive was launched by Rundstedt’s Army Group A in the Ardennes with a subsidiary invasion of Holland and Belgium undertaken by Army Group B.
    From 9 April (when German troops invaded Denmark and Norway) to the armistice with France on 25 June, the German Army confirmed the superiority of its organisation and tactics. Losses in Norway were 5636 men; the invasion of France and the Low Countries cost 27,074 killed, 111,034 wounded and 18,348 missing. On some single days in World War I the losses were higher.
    German Air Force (Luftwaffe) and Airborne Forces:
    For the campaign in the West the Luftwaffe deployed 3,902 aircraft (1,482 bombers and dive-bombers, 42 ground-attack planes, 1,016 fighter planes and 248 Bf110 twin-engined fighters).
    Colonel-General Kesselring commanded Luftflotte 2 with I, IV and IX Fliegerkorps in support of General von Bock’s Army Group B.
    Colonel-General Sperrle commanded Luftflotte 3 with II, V and VIII Fliegerkorps in support of General von Rundstedt’s Army Group A.

    The forces within the Territorial Air Zones based in Italy were organised as follows:
    • Northern Zone: 7 wings of bombers (approx. 315 planes) and 3 wings (plus one group) of CR-42 fighters (approx. 210 planes);
    • Central Zone: three wings of bombers (approx. 135 planes) and two wings and a group of fighter planes (approx. 150 planes);
    • Southern Zone: five bomber wings (approx. 225 planes) and one fighter wing as well as an autonomous fighter group (approx. 90 planes) and dive¬bomber group (approx. 25 planes);
    • South-Eastern Zone: one wing of night-bombers (approx. 45 planes) and float-planes and a group of obsolescent CR-32 fighters (approx. 30 planes).
    • the largest of the overseas commands was that based in Libya and comprised four bomber wings (approx. 180 planes) ; a fighter wing and three other fighter groups (approx. 150 planes) ; and two groups plus two squadrons of colonial reconnaissance aircraft (approx. 60 planes).
    The Italian Air Force begun the war with nearly 2,000 operational aircraft ready for combat and with almost the same number in reserve.
    Italian Navy (Regia Navale)
    Mussolini hoped that the Regia Navale would play an important part in any Mediterranean war. He saw control of the sea (Mare Nostrum - Our Sea - was how he described the Mediterranean) as an essential prerequisite for expanding his empire into Nice, Corsica, Tunis and the Balkans.
    Picture: a heavy cruiser of the Zara class is firing the guns.
    Italian naval building accelerated during his tenure of power, and by June 1940, the Navy comprised:
    • 4 battleships;
    • 8 heavy cruisers;
    • 14 light cruisers;
    • 128 destroyers;
    • 115 submarines;
    • 62 motor-torpedo boats.
    There were 1,235 Italian merchant ships, totalling 3,448,453 tons.
    The Navy lacked aircraft, and was dependent on the Air Force for protection and reconnaissance. This was an unsatisfactory state of affairs; co-operation was poor, and although the torpedo-bombers and reconnaissance aircraft of the Regia Aeronautica were effective, high-level bombers did not have much success against ships at sea.

    Basic US Army units in 1942:
    Infantry Division (motorised) Armoured Division Tank Battalion Tank Destroyer Battalion
    Total units (in summer 1942) aprox. 28
    (42 in December 1942 including armoured) aprox. 5
    (16 in 1944-45) 2 +
    (65 in 1944-45, often being combined in groups of 3-5, sometimes with mechanized infantry units) 3 +
    (80 in 1945)
    Infantry regiments 3
    (each with three battailons, each with 860 men) 1
    (with three battailons, each with 860 men, all mounted on half-tracks) - -
    Total men 14,253 10,900 729 1,250
    Machine guns 280
    (147 x .30, 133 x .50) aprox. 93
    (49 x .30, 44 x .50) - -
    Mortars 138
    (81 x 60mm, 57 x 81mm) 46
    (27 x 60mm, 19 x 81mm) - -
    Artillery 48
    (36 x US 105mm Howitzer, 12 x US 155mm Howitzer)


    Self-propelled howitzers 24
    (18 x 75mm, 6 x 105mm) 54
    (105mm) - -
    Anti-tank guns 109
    (37mm M3A1 , later 57mm) ? - -
    Anti-aircraft guns anti-aircraft battalions were controlled by the Army
    Vehicles 1,440
    (note: this capacity was not enough to move all equipment and personnel simultaneously) 1,000+ - -
    Armoured Cars - 68
    (M8) - -
    Tanks - 227
    (159 medium M3 Lee or M4 Sherman, 68 Stuart)
    68
    (51 medium M3 Lee or M4 Sherman, 17 Stuart)
    36
    (M10)

    US Army Air Force
    In the 1930s there were dramatic strides in civil and commercial aviation, and by the eve of the war the United States was the world leader in civil aviation. Army aviation lagged sadly behind. Its aircraft were not capable of meeting the demands of the war to come, and production was quite limited in comparison with the industry’s potential. In 1938 only 1,800 military aircraft were built, and 2,195 in the following year. But in 1939, when the 1935 Neutrality Act was repealed, the American aircraft industry began to recover. (The Act had put an embargo on the export of all military material to belligerent countries, with the aim of keeping America out of war.) France and Britain were major new customers for American aircraft, and the 1941 Lend-Lease Act gave this production a new boost.
    In 1939 the USAAC had a total of 2,400 aircraft, while the U.S. Navy Air Force had 2,500 aircraft, 600 of which were carrier-based.
    When war broke out the Army had 3,305 aircraft in a state of readiness, while the Navy had about 3,000 aircraft ready.
    Basic British and Empire Army units in August 1940:
    Infantry Division (motorised) Armoured Division
    Total units approx. 29 - 33 3
    Infantry brigades 3 with 2,340 men and 99 officers each 2 battalions with 1,560 men and 66 officers together
    Total men 13,600 ?
    Artillery 72
    (36 x 18 pounders, 36 x 4.5inch Howitzers or 18/25 pounders or 25 pounders) approx. 48
    (25 pounders)
    Anti-tank guns 75
    (2 pounders or 25mm) approx. 48
    (2 pounders)
    Tanks 28 light tanks, 44 Universal Bren carriers 220 cruiser tanks

    Total British and Empire divisions in France on 10 May 1940: 10
    Total British and Empire divisions in Great Britain in August 1940: 26 (2 armoured), all short of equipment.



  • ok thats alot of info. Hardest part is to know where these units were located. ex. 4 SZ around Britain what goes where?

    Land:
    5 infantry divisions = 1 unit
    2 Armor Divisions = 1 unit
    3 Motorized Divisions/ Mechanized = 1 unit
    Artillery (subjective based on level of artillery in infantry and other factors)

    Sea:
    3 Battleships = 1 unit
    4 Carriers = 1 unit
    10 Cruisers = 1 unit
    20 Destroyers = 1 unit
    30 submarines = 1 unit
    2,000,000 Gross Tons of Merchant Shipping ( rounded up) = 1 Unit

    Air:
    200-250 Front line Fighters = 1 unit
    200-250 Front line Fighter- Bombers= 1 unit
    450-500 Front line Bombers= 1 unit

    Round up or down depending on quality overall.

    ^now with that chart, is this what a single unit in axis and allies represents? because if its different then units we buy each turn may be much less than what is historical because of unit prices. if spending 3 ipcs on an inf equals to about 3 infantry divisions for example, then we gotta change this chart.

    Once the chart is complete, lets weed through the information to have the total of units for each nation, then eventually figure out where they would be located on a set date. how about June 5, 1940?? a day after dunkirk? or does the game begin before dunkirk? i dont remember.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    now with that chart, is this what a single unit in axis and allies represents?

    Yes based on a composite of Global 1940. I had to find the actual numbers of hardware and figure out where and why discrepancies existed that were invented for play balance, then figure out ratios based on what was the baseline setup common to all global versions of AA.

    because if its different then units we buy each turn may be much less than what is historical because of unit prices. if spending 3 ipcs on an inf equals to about 3 infantry divisions for example, then we gotta change this chart.

    Nations were rated differently based on quality.  For example Germany had the best troops overall, so 5:1. The Soviets are at 7:1 ratio…etc. Naval and air did have some qualitative adjustments for quality depending on nation, i they got an extra ship ( rounded in their favor) it was because in that class of ship they excelled in design.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    This file was compared to known positions of Japanese ships June 1940. I never finished the Europe side but this is accurate if based on Global 40.

    Revised Global 1940 setup: Pacific 1940

    JAPAN
    Japan: 2 Infantry, 1 Bomber
    Manchuria: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Mechanized, 1 Fighter, 1 Bomber
    Jehol: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery,1 Fighter, 1 Tactical Bomber, 1 Bomber
    Shantung: 2 Infantry
    Kiangsu: 2 Infantry
    Kiangsi: 2 Infantry
    Kwangsi: 1 Infantry
    Siam: 2 Infantry
    Sea Zone 6 (off Japan): 3 Battleships, 2 Carriers, 2 Cruisers, 2 Destroyers, 1 Transport, 2 Fighters, 2 Tactical Bombers
    Sea Zone 17: 1 Submarine
    Sea Zone 19: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 20: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 22: 1 Submarine
    Sea Zone 36: 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Submarine, 1 Fighter, 1 Tactical Bomber

    United Kingdom
    India: 2 Infantry, 1 Tank
    Burma: 1 Infantry
    Malaya: 2 Infantry
    Sea Zone 39 (Ceylon): 1 Cruiser, 2 Destroyers, 2 Transports
    Sea Zone 37: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 42: 1 Submarine
    Sea Zone 43: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport

    Note: the Balance of the armed forces for AAE40
    BEF 1 inf, 1 art, 1 Mech
    Africa: 1 Inf, 2 mech, 1 art
    Canada: 1 inf, 1 DD, 1 AP
    UK: 1 inf, 1 art, 1 mech, 1 tank, 2 fighters, 2 bombers
    Gibralter: 1 BB, 1 CV, 1 SS 1 AP, 1 Tactical bomber
    Scapa Flow: 3 BB, 2 CA, 1 DD, 1 AP
    Misc: 5 DD, 5 AP

    ANZAC
    New Guinea: 1 Infantry
    Queensland: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery
    New South Wales: 1 Tank, 1 Fighter
    Western Australia: 1 Mechanized
    Sea Zone 54: 1 Destroyer
    Sea Zone 62: 1 Transport

    Dutch
    Sea Zone 41: 1 Destroyer

    CHINA
    Chahar: 2 Infantry
    Hopei: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery
    Anhwe: 2 Infantry
    Human: 2 Infantry
    Yunnan: 3 infantry, 1 Fighter

    United States
    Western United States: 2 Infantry, 1 Fighter, 1Bomber
    Sea Zone 10 (San Diego): 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 12: 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Fighter, 1 Tactical Bomber
    Sea Zone 14: 1 Submarine
    Sea Zone 25: 1 Submarine
    Hawaii: 1 Infantry, 1 Tactical Bomber,
    Sea Zone 26 (Honolulu): 2 Battleships, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
    Philippines: 1 Infantry
    Sea Zone 35: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport

    Note: Balance of US armed forces for AAE40 map:
    1 BB, 1 CV, 1 CA, 1 DD, 1 AP, 1 SS, 1 Fighter, 1 Tactical bomber, 1 Bomber, 1 Tank, 1 Artillery



  • ok so that new list you just posted would be historically accurate in terms of the list provided?

    and what does “Note: the Balance of the armed forces for AAE40” exactly mean? are units changed for balanced or is it all still historical?


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    They are my notes for what would be placed in AAE40 map based on the differences. The AAP40 historical setup is based on where these forces were and based on ratios established.



  • i think im confusing myself by overeading some of this. what difference do you speak of?

    “The AAP40 historical setup is based on where these forces were and based on ratios established.”
    ^ so this is exactly historical according to the ratio chart you posted earlier with no compromise for balancing reasons?

    because “Note: the Balance of the armed forces for AAE40” and Note: “Balance of US armed forces for AAE40 map:” are confusing me as to what they’re trying to do.



  • wait i think i figured it out, your comparing the deployments on the pacific side to the European side.

    Has anyone made a near perfect historical setup of global 1940 or will this be the first official one?

    as i said earlier id like this to be historically accurate as possible and from there we can do balancing. id like to see 2 setups come from this.

    IL, i can work on the european side now that i know that ratio is accurate. what info would you like me to use? i see u got pacific all done. between ur posts theres some discrepencies so i just wanna know what to work with


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    your comparing the deployments on the pacific side to the European side.

    Yes.

    Use the raw info and make up your own concept. My AAP40 setup was created after that game came out, because i immediately knew it was hardly accurate or balanced.



  • ok. ill start working on it soon!

    thanks alot. once i got the setup done im gunna do some playtesting. i think it will be heavily skewed for the allies.

    one idea is to not give many transports to britain at all. your chart used merchant shipping as military transport so ill see what i can do


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