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2nd October: a sad day for Christians everywhere.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    Today, 2nd October 1187, after  fewer than  100 years of Christian rule, Jerusalem fell to the Muslim army of Saladin. Born in  Mesopotamia,now in  modern day Iraq, he was a  fervent Muslim and great believer in Jihad, or Holy War.  
    Jerusalem’s king was the unintelligent and mild brother in law of the leprotic King Balwin IV, Guy de Lusignan. His army had been totally routed at the battle of Hattin in July. The city, without its Crusader army, fell after a short siege. What followed the siege was a surprise, as Saladin did not pillage and murder as the Christians had done.  
    For Christianity it was a disaster unacceptable to take and Holy War, in the form of the 3rd Crusade, would soon ensue and mercy would not be shown by the  Crusaders.
    Jerusalem, however, would forever elude Christian attempts at recapture.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I thought we went on another crusade in 2001?

    I could be wrong… but?


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    There is a story (possibly apocryphal) about an incident involving Richard I Lionheart and Saladin at the Battle of Arsuf during the Third Crusade.  Before the two armies started fighting, Richard left his front line and walked alone towards the enemy line.  Saladin, observing this, left his own line and walked alone to meet Richard halfway between the two armies.  When they met, Richard – in a bid to impress Saladin – took a heavy iron chain he had brought with him, placed it on a rock, and broke it in two with a single blow of his broadsword.  Saladin, who wasn’t about to let himself be upstaged by this Christian infidel, drew his scimitar, tossed a silk handkerchief up into the air and sliced it in half as it fluttered back down.


  • Official Answers 2007 AAR League

    Soooooo want to troll this thread.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    Hi Marc. I think Richard would not have struck a rock with his sword if he had been that close to an unguarded  Saladin. I do not think there is much chivalry about his behaviour towards his enemies. Bit of a bastard, I would say.
    Got himself stupidly killed subduing a tiny, insignificant castle in his beloved Aquitaine 12 years later.
    One lasting enigma is his sexuality! Was he?


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    @Frimmel. Feel free. I won’t cry!


  • Moderator

    A sad day of Christians? I am a Christian, and I think the Crusades were terrible, particularly since they were done in the name of Christ. I think it is more accurate to think of the fall of Jerusalem a political defeat for the European theocrats of the day. I will say that it was, however, a sad day for crusaders.  🙂

    GG



  • So you find it sad that a city that was never originally Christian, having been conquered in the name of their faith, was retaken by another faith that was native to the area without senseless slaughter of the defeated (unlike what the Christians had done)?

    How is that sad?

    Truth be told, Muslims, Jews, and Christians have a long history of co-occupying a city sacred in all 3 faiths, even though the Muslims have outnumbered the other 2.

    Forget a sad day for Christians, try an utterly depressing era called the Dark Ages (which your topic occurred in).  The West owes Muslims and a sect of Irish monks in keeping a log of history while Europe slew, suffered, and stunk.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    Hi Jermofoot and GG. I love history and like knowing what happens each day. I thought the Fall of Jerusalem a pertinent and interesting event. We all enjoy Surprise Attack’s daily entries and these posts of mine are in that vein.
    I add the subject title before posting. It was rushed.
    Times have changed as people are not as religious any more, few of us believing our actions on Earth take us to a higher place. My subject title was meant to reflect feelings at the time. I understand that is not clear.
    Thank you for reading them.


  • Moderator

    I would probably disagree with your description of the world’s religious populations in comparison to world population (beside the point). I love history as well, part of the reason I got into playing AaA. With your addition of a moral qualifier (something being sad, and said thing not being inevitable, like death), I would have to assume the statement was intended as a moral qualifier for your own opinion. I understand though if you are trying to reflect the sentiment of the time period, you’ll have to forgive the fact that e-com has a hard time passing on that strain of communication.

    In lieu of the topic, my mind always goes back to the epic (no doubt historically lacking) representation of the battle from “Kingdom of Heaven”:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUKxBnSkR6U

    GG


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 Customizer

    @frimmel:

    Soooooo want to troll this thread.

    Same. But I won’t.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    Just so you all know, I am now feeling bullied!
    Would like to know what the hell you mean.
    Thought the story interesting coming the day after Alexander’s great victory at Gaugemala.
    Pray tell me what I have done wrong and how exactly this is asking to be trolled?


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 Customizer

    @wittmann:

    Just so you all know, I am now feeling bullied!
    Would like to know what the hell you mean.
    Thought the story interesting coming the day after Alexander’s great victory at Gaugemala.
    Pray tell me what I have done wrong and how exactly this is asking to be trolled?

    Haha…  :lol: did not mean to offend. You have done nothing wrong.



  • A lot of people don’t realize that one of the motivations for the crusades was that the holy land was invaded first by the seljuk turks.


  • Official Answers 2007 AAR League

    @wittmann:

    Just so you all know, I am now feeling bullied!
    Would like to know what the hell you mean.
    Thought the story interesting coming the day after Alexander’s great victory at Gaugemala.
    Pray tell me what I have done wrong and how exactly this is asking to be trolled?

    I’m Atheist. I want to derail what could be an interesting discussion of historical events by making fun of the supposed invisible man who lives in the sky and of his superstitious followers and generally expressing my distaste for religion. That is trolling.


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 Customizer

    @frimmel:

    I’m Atheist. I want to derail what could be an interesting discussion of historical events by making fun of the supposed invisible man who lives in the sky and of his superstitious followers and generally expressing my distaste for religion. That is trolling.

    I am of the opposite conviction and could do the same thing… and probably just have it degenerate into an flaming argument. Would rather not get involved.

    I will instead invoke Brother Gilbert:  “Peace brothers! Peace! … HEATHENS!  :-o”


  • Moderator

    @frimmel:

    @wittmann:

    Just so you all know, I am now feeling bullied!
    Would like to know what the hell you mean.
    Thought the story interesting coming the day after Alexander’s great victory at Gaugemala.
    Pray tell me what I have done wrong and how exactly this is asking to be trolled?

    I’m Atheist. I want to derail what could be an interesting discussion of historical events by making fun of the supposed invisible man who lives in the sky and of his superstitious followers and generally expressing my distaste for religion. That is trolling.

    lol, this should get the post of the year award!

    GG

    P.S. Let’s keep this on topic. I apologize for my part in derailing the direction of the conversation.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    Thanks for explaining  Frimmel.
    I am only story telling. If people decide to say their piece that is fine obviously. I would be stupid to expect everyone to praise me!
    I thought it fit in well coming the date after a battle that led to a Persian Kingdom collapsing.
    Many of us know what happened in WW2 on certain dates; I am throwing other events, often battles, into the mix.
    GG: we are all friends, with a love of(obsession ok!) a certain game.
    All is fair in love and war.


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 Customizer

    @wittmann:

    All is fair in love and war.

    Except genocide.

    Girlfriends and democratic nations don’t go for it.


  • '12

    This is basically entirely to Cromwell_Dude

    Cromwell_Dude, I was baptised Anglican but take the Bill Maher approach to religion currently so I am not backing any religion against any religion.

    I note that you repeatedly used the spelling Moslem.  It tells me you have rather biased opinion and are looking for facts to support your view, perhaps I am wrong.

    Why Do People Say Muslim Now Instead of Moslem?
    http://hnn.us/articles/524.htm

    From this I quote

    A Muslim in Arabic means"one who gives himself to God," and is by definition, someone who adheres to Islam. By contrast, a Moslem in Arabic means"one who is evil and unjust" when the word is pronounced, as it is in English, Mozlem with a z.

    To me that is rather inflammatory rhetoric and has little if any room for an enlightened discussion forum as this is.  Cromwell you say this"

    The Christian Crusades were defensive holy wars by mostly sincere Christians against an enemy of rape, pillage, and murder.

    So the rest of the world especially the middle east have it all wrong?  I suspect the reason why crusader is such a dirty word in the middle east is because bad things happened when they showed up.  Lets say for argument sake the Crusaders really were great nice folks.  How do we convince those who think otherwise they are wrong?  By calling them evil, hateful, rapists who love war?

    Religion and Politics for good reason are topics to avoid during parties, particularly when there are guns and booze around.

    I think we are mature enough here that these topics and be talked about if we all respect the others point of views and beliefs.  Frimmel and  LHoffman impressed me with their ability to agree to disagree.  The only reason I came to this thread is that you raised it from the dead so to speak.


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