Get the Brit Inf back in Egypt and a Russian Bomber for 2nd Edition

@the-spaceman said in The Sneaky Russian:

Hey Everyone,

I corrected some of your numbers since they were off.

Just came up with an oddball idea and am wondering if anyone has tried it or whether it would make sence, ruleswise and competitively.

In OOB trying to gain extra Russia income in this way is a longtime and widely accepted strategy. Most Axis Players will do their best to deny this outcome. In BM3 they removed the possibility for Africa and the Middle East income as most Players felt this was kind of a cheesy rule for Africa and the Middle East and meant more for Europe.

The Goal
Russia gets 3 IPCs for every Italian/German or Pro-axis territory.
Persia IPCs +3
Iraq IPCs+2 +3
Tobruk.IPCs.+3
Lybia IPCs +1 + 3
Ethiopia +1 + 3
Italian Somalialand + 3

22 IPCs for Russia

Finland + 2 + 3
Norway +3 + 3

11 IPCs for Russia

Total + 33 IPCs for Russia

Methods.
Group 1 (depends on German DOW)
The forces in and around Leningrad should be able to take out the Finland/Norway forces maybe with some extra tanks/planes built in Leningrad.

Pretty unlikely. Most Axis Players are going to bring two additional units to Norway on G1 giving the Axis 9 ground units. Add in German and Italian planes and only a major push by the Russians would have any chance to taking Finland and Norway. If the Russkies tried this, one of two things are going to happen, 1) Moscow is going to fall with so many troops in the north or 2) the Germans will divert their army north and wipe out the Russian Army Group North on the cheap.

Group 2 (Turns 1-2)
The 2 mobile units in Stalingrad go south activating Persia and then taking Iraq by about turn 2-3, with help of Iraninan infantry and maybe a aircraft. 2 inf from caucasus go south also.
(not sure if tanks can blitz through empty neutrals? It states friendly or enemy but is pro allied counted as friendly?)

Armor cannot blitz through a friendly aka pro-allied neutral. Most commonly you will see UK take Northwest Persia to open this route south for the Russians. In addition, the UK will strafe or try to clear Iraq for Russian capture. This one is a given if UK is willing to give it up. There is a LOT of debate if this is a wise move or not. Helps Russia in the short run and hurts UK in the long run.

Group 3 (Turns 3-5)
A short hop from Iraq is Tobruk/Lybia. The single tank might be all you need to grab both of these if the UK player has been helpful by clearing the med of Italian Shipping and strafing any Italian units in africa.

Again, the Axis Player is going to be doing their best to make sure Tobruk, Libya and possibly Tunisia do not fall into Russian hands. This is definitely a legitimate strategy for UK to try and clear those territories for Russian occupation. Very powerful if successful.

Group 4 (Turns 3-5)
Another part of this strategy involve the UK now really going fully pro communist. The British use their transport in the persian gulf to send 1-2 Iranian (now Russian) infantry to Africa to land in Italian Somalialand by about turn 4-5. If the UK hasnt already grabbed Ethiopia as well they can pick this one up too. On T1 the UK should pull units out of Anglo Egytian Sudan and then counter attack the Italian units in UK coloured territories. We dont want UK getting 1 IPC for ethiopia when its worth 4 to the russians.

If the Italian Player allows the UK to clear Ethiopia and Italian Somaliland easily they are doing a piss poor job. Taking one of the two is a very good possibility for the Russians and if the UK is willing to risk losing a plane or two possibly both are up for grabs.

Group 5 (Turns 6-7)
Bulgaria +1/4 Albania +1/4 Rumania+3/6. If the Strategy is working so far keep it Rolling with the Russians advancing through Southern Europe for +14 IPCs. If these areas are lightly defended UK can Can-opener them with bombers flying out of bases in the med

Never going to happen. No matter what happens in the Middle East and Africa the Germans are going to be on the doorstep of Moscow so no Russians are heading west.

Results.
The additional 30 IPCs for Russia will counter any losses Germany has inflicted. Maybe keeping Russias production around 40-50 even when the Germans are at the gates of Moscow.

Group 2 and 3 are easily taken if UK agrees to standard cooperation and Group 4 if a higher level of cooperation is achieved.

Group 1 requires a tough fight and will probable result in heavy losses of men and territories as well.

The Group 5 is the fantasy scenario and represents a “winning More” strategy

Conclusion.
The kicker for me in this strategy seems to be the ablity to turn zero IPC territories into 3 IPC territories. This includes Tobruk and Italian Somalialand. There is no reason that the British would want these as they gain no benefit.

The other practical benefit is that bumping russian IPC output puts boots on the ground where they are most needed.

The main questions are around the speed in which Russia can move to capture these territories vs the speed that Germans can attack?

Secondly does the benefit to Russia outweigh the cost in units lost and the cost to UK of not capturing these territories?

In summary, I would say it is very easy for the Russians to get $3 out of Africa and very possibly $6. If they get $9 or $12 that is great though unusual. The Middle East for $5 is a given if UK is willing to give it up and risk a plane or two. Europe is never going to happen unless in the end game and Norway/Finland is a lot more difficult and risky than you may realize.

Excellent strategizing and thinking!

@calvinhobbesliker:

@simon33:

Hmm, interesting analysis. Germany has to really stretch to pull in the 24 inf too.

If a G1 buy of 3mech 3arm where done, it seems to be negative.

What happens when the more usual move of a I2+G3 DOW is done? If the Germans don’t buy fast movers G1, that is what I expect anyway.

Interesting. I had no idea that 6 tanks could potentially make East Poland not stackable…and if Germany buys mechs/tanks G1 in anticipation to bolster it, that prevents them from buying more ships for Sealion.

This is the build that helped us win our first game at YG’s tournament as the allies, and almost always my build with Russia.

Follow up round two with FULL mechanized.  Your force can hold/delay leningrad unless the germans are heavily organized and determined to take it.  Usually this can buy you an extra round or two depending on what the germans are doing, whilst you evacuate your infantry.

Thanks.

Yeah a US IC would be ideal but how long would it take them to get there and build it?  Would it be too little too late?

UK could build one quickly but could they afford to build the IC and then produce units out of it?  What would they give up to do it?

Russia could take them quickly and they need the income but could they hold it?  I know this is a weird idea but suppose Russia were to take them and plow the money back into a Soviet IC, then build a couple infantry units there each turn.  The extra income would help it pay for itself and they get to deny Italy or Germany the oil NOs.  Or they could just build a coupld mechanized infantry each turn and drive them down from Volgagrad (2 mechs cost $8, which is what USSR would get if they can hold Iraq, iran and Syria)

@JimmyHat:

best counter is an easy Sealion.

Agreed, if you built a Carrier with Germany on round 1, and the UK either buys units in S Africa or builds an IC somewhere, the Germans need to go all in on Sea Lion.  As Germany, launch your attack on London on G3 and you should win with acceptable losses.  Situations like these are what Sea Lion is all about :)

@Sgt.:

Also, is it defender’s choice whether to take interceptor hits on strategic bombers or tac bombers?

No, it is the attacker’s choice, as they are his bombers.

Sorry, that’s what I meant. Thanks for the quick response!

I guess the concept was that the U.K. could sacrifice the occasional fighter withour screwing up the Russian N.O…  If Germany decided not to attack a given Territory to have the U.k. Fighter deny the N.O… then Russia is still ahead because they weren’t attacked.

Anyway, the U.K. could land on U.K.4 as I would think that %100 of Russian PLayers would declare war on R4 if Germany had not declared war by then.

Awesome.  Thanks for everyones help!