• At least nearly half a success … and that only for now.
    The US Navy is not allowed to use its ASDIC in some parts of the open seas. Instead of the 75% worldwide (Navy plans), they have to restrict themselves. In the Pacific, they are allowed to scan only 60%, which 60% has to be worked out.
    But, that is not enough for the Navy, so their lobby-workers try to get the environmental protection laws redone, to allow unlimited use of ASDIC.

    Even thouh it is not much more than a sign to the right (read: correct) direction, we will see wether and how long this judical ruling survives.

    For those, who don’t see the connection between ASDIC and protecting the environment: Go close to a starting space shuttle, and you will know how whales and dolphins feel before their sense of hearing and orientation is blown away.


  • I’d rather have superior naval power… :-?


  • Id have to agree with D:S. Protecting the enviorment is all well and good, within reason. Id rather be sure to have a superior navy.


  • Yes… but a superior navy against who and what? The only other country with a decent navy is UK and Russia (when their subs aren’t sinking).


  • Against anyone who might have a sub launched nuclear weapon!


  • This a fundamental flaw with civilians ( I realize I am one as well). They dont see the need for a military unless there is a specific enemy, and generally one they have a specific, popular cause against. (The Iraq war is one example). Thats all well and good, it would be nice to divert funds into other programs. But when war does spring up (and eventually, no matter how peaceful things get, or perhaps because of that, it will) you are immediately starting from a disadvantage. Perhaps you are strong enough or the enemy weak enough that it doesnt cost you the war, but it will certainly cost more lives, time, money, etc. then it should have. We should continue are military at least at its current level, continue modernizing it, keep it as strong as possible, so that when a threat does arise, we are adequately prepared. The lack of a specific enemy at any point in time is no need to tear down the military.


  • The lack of a specific enemy at any point in time is no need to tear down the military.

    That’s true. Though it’s no reason that the navy should be a threat to the eco-system at the same time (if the sonar alegations are correct…). I’m all for modernizing the military (faster, leaner, ect), but not necessarily expanding its size. When another country starts expanding its army dramatically, maybe we should. But the US still remains the #1 megapower.


  • Well, I wouldnt necessarily say you have to increase the size of the US military (though I would certainly not object to it). And I wouldnt oppose trying to make military systems as enviromentally-friendly as they can be, but not at the expense of combat effectiveness. Im sorry, but Id rather see some animals die due to naval systems, than remove them, and potentially suffer human casualties due to their abscense, but thats just me.


  • When’s the last time that the United States navy ever got attacked by an enemy sub?

  • '19 Moderator

    From what I have heard, some people think the sonar will hurt the environment. I don’t see why they can’t put one of the units out and monitor it before everone starts jumping to conclusions. Hell, for all we know the cute little fishies will just stay away from the things. And hey you never know it might kill the hell out of tuna then we could just scoop 'em up and can 'em. After all, tuna are ugly and they taste yummy.


  • @TG:

    When’s the last time that the United States navy ever got attacked by an enemy sub?

    That’s beyond the point. The best defense is a good offense. Consider the following article, it’s very interesting reading:

    http://www.yowusa.com/Archive/July2002/plan1/plan1.htm


  • The best defense is a good offense.

    Straight out of Hitler’s own mouth right? And please explain to me how my statement was “beyond the point”

    Consider the following article, it’s very interesting reading:

    http://www.yowusa.com/Archive/July2002/plan1/plan1.htm

    Oh my God, you honestly expect China to attack us? This is almost as ridiculous as the “Will US and China start WWIII?” topic we had once.


  • It’s beyond the point in terms of whether we should revolve our national security around it. You have to be prepared for everything. I could ask the same question in terms of “when’s the last time somebody launched a nuke at us?” Now, does that mean we shouldn’t take precautions against such enemies?


  • It’s beyond the point in terms of whether we should revolve our national security around it. You have to be prepared for everything. I could ask the same question in terms of “when’s the last time somebody launched a nuke at us?” Now, does that mean we shouldn’t take precautions against such enemies?

    Is there no way to compromise with you? I’m not saying, “Opps… one of our subs hit a whale - let’s decide to scrap the entire navy since saving the whales is… ummm, good… yeah… good.” But as F_alk pointed out, is the 60% of the open seas good enough for you? Especially in times of peace, can the Navy at least show some restraint? I’m not saying, lets stop using sonar, but to limit ourselves in accord. And I’m sure your point about “revolving our national secruity” is beyond the point as much is mine. And what’s to stop us from the nth degree? If Country X could one day be a threat to us, whats to stop us from conducting war games off their coast? Afterall, we have to be prepared for EVERYTHING. Compromise. It’s not just some word.


  • Bomb the whales!


  • I hope you don’t represent every conservative out there… :-? :roll:


  • um…doesn’t the navy get us to the otherside of the world to invade Iraq? Transports today could get shot away with out protection…

    http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2003/4/battle_island/index3.phtml

    and these :wink: ….

    Saudi Arabia wouldn’t let us use airbases so just make 'em floatable…

    The US navy doesn’t need to worry about whales… :wink:

  • Moderator

    Dang it!!! hat was me again forgot to log in :oops: 8)


  • TG, I was completely kidding on that, and if you didnt get that, than sorry. I have nothing but respect for the whales. Bomb the Dolphins!


  • It wasn’t that… I don’t like whales much either (dumb evolutionary retards), but your post had no relevance to a serious dicussion at hand. There is better spam posting than that.

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