Global 2nd edition Q+A ( AAG40.2)

Planes still can’t fly over neutrals right?  By neutrals i mean true, pro-allied, and pro-axis.

they can’t fly over a neutral during combat move, unless and only if they are being used to attack that neutral.  they CAN fly over a neutral they have attacked that turn during NONCOM however.

If America liberates Celebes, do they get the 3 IPC income increase.

@ghr2:

Planes still can’t fly over neutrals right?  By neutrals i mean true, pro-allied, and pro-axis.

Right.

@Young:

If America liberates Celebes, do they get the 3 IPC income increase.

It’s not liberation.  Liberation is when you free an Ally’s territory from enemy control and the control reverts back to your ally.

USA can take control of the Celebes (or any other Dutch territory) if they wrest it from an Axis power.  They then get all the benefits from controlling the territory, including the increased income, yes.

(Once a Dutch territory is controlled by any playable power, it will never be Dutch again.)
Control can never go directly from Dutch to American.  It must be controlled by an Axis power before USA can control it and get income from it (any Dutch territory)

Ok, the US flew a fighter on to a UK carrier and the US is not at war. If Germany were to attack that carrier does that bring the US into the war or does the plane just not fight?

@Kingpin2010:

Ok, the US flew a fighter on to a UK carrier and the US is not at war. If Germany were to attack that carrier does that bring the US into the war or does the plane just not fight?

:-)
It was illegal to fly the US fighter on to the UK carrier.

On a related note,
At sea, you can ignore the units of powers with which you are not currently at war
On land, you cannot attack a territory that contains any units of power with which you are not at war.  You must declare war on that power to attack the territory at all.

Can all allied air units land on Dutch islands without needing to first land on them, or is it just ANZAC and UK?

@Young:

Can all allied air units land on Dutch islands without needing to first land on them, or is it just ANZAC and UK?

Yes, any ally could land on Dutch territories (including in South America) because the Dutch are one of the Allies (at war with Germany)

Note, however, that the USA cannot land on Dutch territories (or move ground units into them) before the USA is in the war, because the USA is still neutral until at war, and is not an ally of the Dutch yet.

@Gamerman01:

@Young:

Can all allied air units land on Dutch islands without needing to first land on them, or is it just ANZAC and UK?

Yes, any ally could land on Dutch territories (including in South America) because the Dutch are one of the Allies (at war with Germany)

Note, however, that the USA cannot land on Dutch territories (or move ground units into them) before the USA is in the war, because the USA is still neutral until at war, and is not an ally of the Dutch yet.

So would the following be a correct statement?

ANZAC, France, and the United Kingdom may land air units on Dutch Islands or territories immediatly without controlling them for a full turn. America, and Russia may also do this when they are at war with Germany.

@Young:

So would the following be a correct statement?

ANZAC, France, and the United Kingdom may land air units on Dutch Islands or territories immediatly without controlling them for a full turn. America, and Russia may also do this when they are at war with Germany.

Yeah….

But I’m not sure about Russia on the Pacific map…  Who would have to be at war with who… although it’s highly unlikely for that to ever be an actual issue, right?

@Gamerman01:

@Young:

So would the following be a correct statement?

ANZAC, France, and the United Kingdom may land air units on Dutch Islands or territories immediatly without controlling them for a full turn. America, and Russia may also do this when they are at war with Germany.

Yeah….

But I’m not sure about Russia on the Pacific map…  Who would have to be at war with who… although it’s highly unlikely for that to ever be an actual issue, right?

Well ANZAC, France, and the UK can land on them because they are at war with Germany (same as Dutch), so Russia and America would have to be at war with Germany to do the same move. I included this because if Russia is at war with Japan but not Germany, they couldn’t land a plane on the Dutch Islands …. right?

@Young:

Well ANZAC, France, and the UK can land on them because they are at war with Germany (same as Dutch)

Right

, so Russia and America would have to be at war with Germany to do the same move.

I think so

I included this because if Russia is at war with Japan but not Germany, they couldn’t land a plane on the Dutch Islands …. right?

Right, UNLESS

For Japan to attack a Dutch territory, they must declare war on UK/ANZ according to the rulebook.
So if Japan is at war with UK/ANZ, then I THINK they are always at war with the Dutch, in which case Russia could land on Dutch territories too (because Russia is at war with Japan, as you said)

In other words:
Russia can land on DEI if:

1. Russia and Japan are at war
   and
2. Japan and UK/ANZ are at war
   or
   2a) Russia and Germany are at war

Russia must be at war with Japan to move out of Russian territories on the Pacific half of the board
Russia must have a common enemy with the Dutch.  This could be Germany or Japan.  I think Japan is at war with the Dutch if Japan is at war with the UK.

So instead of saying “at war with Germany” a more accurate statement would be just “at war”.

Example: America, and Russia may also do this when they are at war.

EDIT: Eggman is saying that America, Russia and France may never land planes on a Dutch territory…. is that right?

@Gamerman01:

@Young:

Can all allied air units land on Dutch islands without needing to first land on them, or is it just ANZAC and UK?

Yes, any ally could land on Dutch territories (including in South America) because the Dutch are one of the Allies (at war with Germany)

Note, however, that the USA cannot land on Dutch territories (or move ground units into them) before the USA is in the war, because the USA is still neutral until at war, and is not an ally of the Dutch yet.

I don’t agree with that statement.  The last line of the paragraph discussing the Dutch on page 9 of the Pac 40 rules says : Once a Dutch territory has been captured by Japan, however, it may be captured and controlled by any power. This means that distinctions between Allies/non-Allies, or war/not-war are not relevant since the opening rule only grants permission for the UK & ANZAC to move into these territories.  Referring to the Pacific40 rules, page 9: **_These two powers (UK/ANZAC) also have an arrangement with the Dutch government in exile (Holland having been captured by Germany) and have taken guardianship of the Dutch territories in the Pacific.  American & Russian units can only occupy Dutch territories in the Pacific one those territories become Allied-controlled after being occupied by an Axis power.  Nothing in that paragraph refers to being at war or a member of the Allies.  Even after being at war, the USA and Russia cannot move into Dutch territories (on the Pacific board for sure, I’m still looking for discussions on the Dutch for the Europe board).

This is another bit of weirdness like the French being able to DoW Japan without it affecting the other Allies or (in my opinion) Italy being allowed to DoW Russia without it affecting Germany.

And once again, if Kreighund wants to come in and say that the USA/Russia could in fact make such moves, he’s welcome, but the rules don’t support that interpretation and would then be in error._**

Understood, but here’s the deal with the rule books; there is a rule book for the Pacific game, and a rulebook for the Europe game, but very few pages covering the Global game. The fact that the Pacific game has no French units in it, prevents the Pacific rulebook from talking about a French fighter landing on a Dutch Island (which is on the Pacific board).

@Gamerman01:

In other words:
Russia can land on DEI if:

1. Russia and Japan are at war
   and
2. Japan and UK/ANZ are at war
   or
   2a) Russia and Germany are at war

No.  The only requisite condition is that USSR and Japan are at war.

@Gamerman01:

Russia must be at war with Japan to move out of Russian territories on the Pacific half of the board

Correct.

@Gamerman01:

Russia must have a common enemy with the Dutch.  This could be Germany or Japan.  I think Japan is at war with the Dutch if Japan is at war with the UK.

There is no concept of “common enemies” in the rules.  A power is either at war or it isn’t (USSR being the exception, in that its “at war” state is relative to the two maps).  If it is, it can move units to any territory controlled by a friendly power that is also at war (unless there is a rule specifically stating otherwise).  The Dutch territories are an exception, in that they aren’t initially controlled by any power (Holland is not a power).  When they are not yet controlled by any power, they are friendly to the Allies.

@Eggman:

I don’t agree with that statement.  The last line of the paragraph discussing the Dutch on page 9 of the Pac 40 rules says : Once a Dutch territory has been captured by Japan, however, it may be captured and controlled by any power. This means that distinctions between Allies/non-Allies, or war/not-war are not relevant since the opening rule only grants permission for the UK & ANZAC to move into these territories.  Referring to the Pacific40 rules, page 9: **_These two powers (UK/ANZAC) also have an arrangement with the Dutch government in exile (Holland having been captured by Germany) and have taken guardianship of the Dutch territories in the Pacific.  American & Russian units can only occupy Dutch territories in the Pacific one those territories become Allied-controlled after being occupied by an Axis power.  Nothing in that paragraph refers to being at war or a member of the Allies.  Even after being at war, the USA and Russia cannot move into Dutch territories (on the Pacific board for sure, I’m still looking for discussions on the Dutch for the Europe board).

I see your point.  This will have to be addressed in the FAQ, as the intent is that the Dutch territories are friendly to all Allied powers.  The only special privilege that UK-ANZAC is intended to enjoy is to take control of them while they are still Dutch._**

@Krieghund:

I see your point.  This will have to be addressed in the FAQ, as the intent is that the Dutch territories are friendly to all Allied powers.  The only special privilege that UK-ANZAC is intended to enjoy is to take control of them while they are still Dutch.

That will mean at a minimum that USA/Russia/France could never move a land unit onto those territories while Dutch, but could possibly land a Fighter.

@Young:

The fact that the Pacific game has no French units in it, prevents the Pacific rulebook from talking about a French fighter landing on a Dutch Island (which is on the Pacific board).

I’m not sure why that would be the case.  The 2e book for Pacific has a section on the Global rules which also discusses France, so this could have been addressed if needed.

Dutch territories are treated exactly the same as any other territory that is

a) friendly
b) lost their capitol.

The only difference between Dutch territories and say, French territories after Paris has been lost, is that the UK/Anzac have a special relationship that allows them to take control of them before they’ve been captured by moving a ground unit into it.  Typically you need to capture - this is the one of the two instances where control of a friendly territory passes to a friendly power.  The other instance is a neutral that has been attacked but not captured.

So when you’re confused about things, ask yourself how you’d treat normandy if it were still french.

Can you UK/Anzac/US/Russia land a plane there?  Yes, as long as it started the turn friendly and they’re not neutral.  Exactly the same as any other friendly territory.

The US is not barred from being in a dutch territory - they must be at war first, but then they’re allowed to move into it just like any other friendly territory.