Global 2nd edition Q+A ( AAG40.2)

  • Moderator Official Q&A 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 '12 TripleA

    @Navymule:

    Germany has two submarines in SZ 109 conducting convoy on UK. On UK’s turn they purchase three destroyers and place them in SZ 109. On France’s turn, can the French fighter in London attack the submarines, since there are allied destroyers in the zone? If so, don’t the submarines shoot back at the destroyers?

    Allied units never attack together:

    @rulebook:

    Multinational Forces

    Units on the same side can share a territory or sea
    zone, constituting a multinational force. Such forces
    can defend together, but they can’t attack together.
    (This doesn’t mean powers can share income: only
    the power that controls a territory collects income
    for that territory.)

    A multinational force can’t attack the same space
    together, because each power moves and attacks
    with its own units only on its own turn. Any units in a
    sea zone in which a battle occurs that belong to an
    ally of the attacker (other than cargo on an attacker’s
    ship) can’t participate in the battle in any way.
    Such
    units can’t be taken as losses in the sea combat and
    have no effect on defending submarines.


  • G1: Germany’s Cruiser/Transport in SZ114 remain unmoved.  Germany’s Battleship in SZ113 remains unmoved.  Germany purchases and deploys an Aircraft carrier and transport in SZ113.  Germany does not declare war on USSR.
    R1: Soviet Cruiser/Submarine in SZ115 move to SZ114.

    What happens when/if Germany declares war on the Soviet Union if the boats in these sea zones remain unchanged between now and then?

    Can the German transport in SZ114 load units and move to SZ115?  Can the cruiser in SZ114 move with the transport and conduct naval bombardment?  Or must these boats conduct battle with the Soviet cruiser/sub in SZ114?  Can either German ship move to either SZ113 or SZ115 on the same turn they declared war on the USSR?

    And I assume that no German ships in SZ113 can make it to SZ115 on the same turn that Germany declared war on USSR, except in the case that the Soviet ships in SZ114 were destroyed during the combat phase, and German ships left in SZ113 that did not move during the combat phase (or take part in the battle in SZ114, in the case of the cruiser starting there) would be able to move from 113 to 115 during the non-combat move phase?


  • Similiar-ish to the above question:

    What is supposed to happen when one faction produces a ship in a sea zone with an enemy warship in the zone?

    For example, Germany has a submarine off the coast of London in SZ109.  UK produces a destroyer.  No combat happen’s on UK’s turn as the ship is deployed after the conduct combat phase.  Assuming no other ally player takes out the German submarine before Germany’s turn and no other axis player takes out the British destroyer before Germany’s turn, what happens during Germany’s combat move phase and conduct combat phase?

    Can the German player move the submarine out of SZ109?  Must it move to attack, or can it move to an open sea zone (or one containing only other axis ships)?  If it does not move, is combat rolled between the submarine (and any reinforcements Germany moved in) and the destroyer (and any planes UK wants to scramble) at that point in time?


  • G1: Germany has moved 4 of its Atlantic submarines to SZ109 to attack the UK destroyer and transport.  UK has scrambled 1 fighter from Scotland, 2 fighters from London.  France has scrambled 1 fighter from London.

    Are the following assumptions correct?

    The German submarines will not use their surprise strike ability because of the presence of an opposing destroyer.
    The Allied fighters will be able to attack the German submarines due to the presence of a friendly destroyer.
    The German submarines will not be able to hit the allied fighters due to being submarines.
    The German submarines can retreat without killing the destroyer.
    The German submarines can not submerge and remain in SZ109 without killing the destroyer.
    The German submarines first hit must be applied to the UK destroyer.
    The German submarines must roll at least 2 total hits across any number of combat rounds before the transport is destroyed (the transport is not killed automatically just because the destroyer was killed).
    If the German submarines destroy the UK destroyer, the defenders all roll their defensive roll for that combat round as if the destroyer were still there (for example, the fighters can still hit the submarines).
    If the German submarines destroy the UK destroyer and the UK transport, combat is effectively done as neither side can hit any targets on the other side.

    And did we conduct this combat correctly…

    4 German submarines scored 3 hits.  UK destroyer and transport selected as casualty.  No remaining valid casualties.
    UK rolls for destroyer and 3 fighters, France rolls for 1 fighter.  Scored 1 hit.  One German submarine is destroyed.
    Combat is over, fighters return to the territories they scrambled from, UK destroyer, UK transport, German sub removed, 3 German subs left in SZ109.


  • Do submarines prevent the Soviet Union’s National Objective tied to SZ125?
    Do transports prevent the Soviet Union’s National Objective tied to SZ125?

    Do submarines prevent Italy’s national objective tied to the Mediterranean?
    Do transports prevent Italy’s national objective tied to the Mediterranean?

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15

    @nhgrif:

    Do submarines prevent the Soviet Union’s National Objective tied to SZ125?
    Do transports prevent the Soviet Union’s National Objective tied to SZ125?

    Do submarines prevent Italy’s national objective tied to the Mediterranean?
    Do transports prevent Italy’s national objective tied to the Mediterranean?

    yes
    no
    no
    no

  • '19 '17 '16

    @nhgrif:

    G1: Germany’s Cruiser/Transport in SZ114 remain unmoved.  Germany’s Battleship in SZ113 remains unmoved.  Germany purchases and deploys an Aircraft carrier and transport in SZ113.  Germany does not declare war on USSR.
    R1: Soviet Cruiser/Submarine in SZ115 move to SZ114.

    What happens when/if Germany declares war on the Soviet Union if the boats in these sea zones remain unchanged between now and then?

    Can the German transport in SZ114 load units and move to SZ115?  Can the cruiser in SZ114 move with the transport and conduct naval bombardment?  Or must these boats conduct battle with the Soviet cruiser/sub in SZ114?  Can either German ship move to either SZ113 or SZ115 on the same turn they declared war on the USSR?

    And I assume that no German ships in SZ113 can make it to SZ115 on the same turn that Germany declared war on USSR, except in the case that the Soviet ships in SZ114 were destroyed during the combat phase, and German ships left in SZ113 that did not move during the combat phase (or take part in the battle in SZ114, in the case of the cruiser starting there) would be able to move from 113 to 115 during the non-combat move phase?

    Sounds like you’ve got it. For the bolded question, refer to the box:
    @Pac:

    with one exception. During your
    Combat Move phase in which you entered into a
    state of war, your transports that are already in sea
    zones that have just become hostile may be loaded
    in those sea zones (but not in other hostile sea
    zones). In effect, transports may be loaded in their
    initial sea zones for amphibious assaults before war
    is declared, while the sea zone is still friendly

    So it’s only possible on the first turn you’ve declared war.

    @nhgrif:

    Similiar-ish to the above question:

    What is supposed to happen when one faction produces a ship in a sea zone with an enemy warship in the zone?

    For example, Germany has a submarine off the coast of London in SZ109.  UK produces a destroyer.  No combat happen’s on UK’s turn as the ship is deployed after the conduct combat phase.  Assuming no other ally player takes out the German submarine before Germany’s turn and no other axis player takes out the British destroyer before Germany’s turn, what happens during Germany’s combat move phase and conduct combat phase?

    Can the German player move the submarine out of SZ109?  Must it move to attack, or can it move to an open sea zone (or one containing only other axis ships)?  If it does not move, is combat rolled between the submarine (and any reinforcements Germany moved in) and the destroyer (and any planes UK wants to scramble) at that point in time?

    Yep. Nothing happens until Germany’s turn in that scenario. Germany may move out of the SZ on combat movement and not attack anything. Refer:
    @Pac:

    Sea Units Starting in Hostile Sea Zones
    At the beginning of the Combat Move phase, you might already have sea units (and air units on carriers) in spaces containing
    enemy units that were there at the start of your turn. For example, an enemy might have built new surface warships in a sea
    zone where you have sea units. When your turn comes around again, you are sharing that sea zone with enemy forces.
    If you are sharing a sea zone with surface warships (not submarines and/or transports) belonging to a power with which you
    are at war, this situation requires you to do one of the following:
    • Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat,
    • Leave the sea zone, load units if desired, and conduct combat elsewhere,
    • Leave the sea zone, load units, and return to the same sea zone to conduct combat (you can’t load units while in a hostile
    sea zone), or
    • Leave the sea zone and conduct no combat.
    Once these sea units have moved and/or participated in combat, they can’t move or participate in the Noncombat Move phase of the turn.

    @nhgrif:

    G1: Germany has moved 4 of its Atlantic submarines to SZ109 to attack the UK destroyer and transport.  UK has scrambled 1 fighter from Scotland, 2 fighters from London.  France has scrambled 1 fighter from London.

    Are the following assumptions correct?

    The German submarines will not use their surprise strike ability because of the presence of an opposing destroyer.
    The Allied fighters will be able to attack the German submarines due to the presence of a friendly destroyer.
    The German submarines will not be able to hit the allied fighters due to being submarines.
    The German submarines can retreat without killing the destroyer.
    The German submarines can not submerge and remain in SZ109 without killing the destroyer.
    The German submarines first hit must be applied to the UK destroyer.
    The German submarines must roll at least 2 total hits across any number of combat rounds before the transport is destroyed (the transport is not killed automatically just because the destroyer was killed).
    If the German submarines destroy the UK destroyer, the defenders all roll their defensive roll for that combat round as if the destroyer were still there (for example, the fighters can still hit the submarines).
    If the German submarines destroy the UK destroyer and the UK transport, combat is effectively done as neither side can hit any targets on the other side.

    And did we conduct this combat correctly…

    4 German submarines scored 3 hits.  UK destroyer and transport selected as casualty.  No remaining valid casualties.
    UK rolls for destroyer and 3 fighters, France rolls for 1 fighter.  Scored 1 hit.  One German submarine is destroyed.
    Combat is over, fighters return to the territories they scrambled from, UK destroyer, UK transport, German sub removed, 3 German subs left in SZ109.

    You handled it correctly.

    I’m pretty sure a clarification has been issued that if Germany’s subs had only hit once, they wouldn’t be allowed to retreat but must press on to kill the transport (which would be an auto kill). They can still retreat while something can fire back at an attacking unit.


  • What are the rules for purchasing industrial complexes and deploying units?  Or… how quickly can the U.S. get scary…?

    Turn X, U.S. captures Norway (I think that’s got an IPC value of 3, right?)

    Option 1: U.S. can build a factory on Turn X.  U.S. can deploy to that factory on Turn X. (this seems definitely wrong)
    Option 2: U.S. can build a factory on Turn X.  U.S. can deploy to that factory on Turn X+1.
    Option 3: U.S. can build a factory on Turn X+1.  U.S. can deploy to that factory on Turn X+1.
    Option 4: U.S. can build a factory on Turn X+1.  U.S. can deploy to that factory on Turn X+2.

    Which is the correct interpretation of the rules?  It seems like it’s probably option 3 or option 4.

  • Moderator 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 '12

    Option 4, nhgrif.


  • There are a lot of rules about submarines.  Let me make sure my reading of the rule book is correct.

    For these scenarios, we are considering a sea zone with a single allied submarine in it.


    Scenario: A sea zone is occupied by a single Allied submarine.  Various nearby Axis units would like to enter the sea zone.

    Questions:

    • Can Axis move a submarine into sea zone during the combat move turn?

    • If it happens during the combat move turn, can the Axis submarine attack the Allied submarine without a destroyer present?

    • If an Axis submarine alone ends its combat phase in the sea zone occupied by an Allied submarine, must it conduct combat (even if it is simply submerging in the first phase)?

    • If the Axis submarine attacks the Allied submarine, can Allied warplanes could scramble if there were an eligible air base with eligible planes stationed at it?

    • If the Axis submarine attacks the Allied submarine, can the Allied submarine simply choose to submerge rather than be involved in any combat at all?

    • Can Axis move a submarine into the sea zone during the non-combat move turn?

    • Can Axis move a transport into the sea zone and conduct an amphibious assault?

    • If the Axis transport is conducting amphibious assault, can the allied submarine prevent it by itself?

    • Can an Axis destroyer move through the sea zone as if it were unoccupied or non-hostile?

    • If an Axis destroyer must stop on a sea zone occupied by a hostile submarine and conduct combat, must any Axis fleet (boats & cargo only, I think it’s clear that aircraft could avoid the combat, not that it would matter) traveling with the destroyer stop with it and take part in the combat?

    • If an Axis destroyer is allowed to pass through the sea zone as if it were unoccupied/non-hostile, can an Axis destroyer move into the square during the Axis non-combat phase (and end its movement there)?

    • Can an Axis fleet without a destroyer make a combat move into a sea zone occupied only by an allied submarine?  Would this initiate combat (which the submarine could opt out of, due to lack of destroyer)?

    • If an Axis battleship and transport move into a sea zone with an Allied submarine to conduct an amphibious assault, does the submarine prevent the naval bombardment?  Does it matter if the submarine submerged at any point during the combat?  Does it matter if it submerged before any rolls were made?

    • If the Allied submarine is in a sea zone marked as a Convoy zone next to Axis controlled territories, does the Allied submarine always get to roll for convoy damage, regardless of the presence of any amount of Axis ships of any kind in the same sea zone (even, for example, a destroyer deployed by the Axis player on that turn)?

    Unrelated to submarines, the rule book says transports do not make a sea zone hostile and you can move through a sea zone with transports as though it were unoccupied.  Am I correct in understanding that if you move through the sea zone (not stopping there) OR if you move into that sea zone during non-combat, the transport is not destroyed?  In order to destroy the transport, an enemy warship must move into the square and stop during its combat move phase?

  • '19 '17 '16

    • Yes
    • Yes, but only if the allied submarine chooses to fight. It could do so if there is a transport to defend, for example.
    • No but technically that should only happen if the Axis submarine starts the turn in the allied SZ. Or if an amphibious assault is being conducted from that SZ.
    • Technically yes but the scramble is pointless because they can’t hit anything.
    • Yes
    • Yes
    • Yes, providing the transport is escorted by a warship (sub counts as a warship)
    • See above
    • Yes
    • N/A
    • Yes
    • Yes if it has a valid reason to move on combat movement e.g. attacking the submarine. Of course, if the submarine is attacked, it will probably just submerge.
    • In this event, the Axis have the option of attacking the submarine or doing a shore bombardment. The Axis cannot do both.
    • Yes

    Yes, that is correct.

    Wow, that was a lot of questions! You sound like you’ve got most of it.


  • Two questions:

    Triple A appears to allow us to build a factory on the same turn as taking a Pro-neutral, such as the UK flipping Persia for the 1st time.  Is this correct?  So UK1 you could occupy Persia and build a mIC?

    If you can’t place or choose not to place something you bought, it just sits until the turn you choose to place it?  Or the ipcs come back?  Or it vanishes?

  • Moderator 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 '12

    That is wrong. AAA has got that wrong. You cannot place until the turn after you caoture a territory, even a Neutral one .

    If you do not a have a legitimate place to put a newly built unit , the spent IPCs are returned to you. If there is somewhere , you have to place it.

  • '17

    @weddingsinger:

    Two questions:

    Triple A appears to allow us to build a factory on the same turn as taking a Pro-neutral, such as the UK flipping Persia for the 1st time.  Is this correct?  So UK1 you could occupy Persia and build a mIC?

    If you can’t place or choose not to place something you bought, it just sits until the turn you choose to place it?  Or the ipcs come back?  Or it vanishes?

    You can’t do that per the rule book. Rule book supersedes whatever happens in triplea. There actually is a caveat in triplea that says it’s up to the players to know and follow the rules.

  • '20 '16

    I’ve been away from the game for awhile, and I think I forgot something.

    German destroyer and transports in 113. I believe Russia can non-com a sub into 113? If so, Germany wants to use those transports for non-com loading in 110, and unloading in 112… Is there any way to attack that sub, and still use the transports for non-com? I know you can ignore the sub, and I know the transports can move out of the 113 to avoid being involved in the combat. But can they avoid combat and also use their remaining movement to complete their desired non-com mission? If they sit in 113 while Germany attacks the sub, they must remain there, unable to move or load in non-com, correct?

  • '19 '17 '16

    Correct except that the transports can’t leave SZ113 to avoid the combat. Only if they are conducting an amphibious assault somewhere else.

  • '20 '16

    Thanks, Simon.

    When you liberate an ally’s territory while their capital is captured, the territory control, and IPC’s gained, goes to the liberator until the ally’s capital is liberated.

    How does this work with the UK split income? For example, London has fallen, but Calcutta is still sending units to battle in the Middle East, and British forces are still battling in Africa.

  • '19 '17 '16

    Well if in that case UK units retake Egypt from the Axis, no income is collected for Egypt. Also if there were an IC on Egypt, no one could build out of it. So you have to get someone else to take the territory if you want the benefit.

  • '20 '16

    Sad

  • Official Q&A

    @simon33:

    Correct except that the transports can’t leave SZ113 to avoid the combat. Only if they are conducting an amphibious assault somewhere else.

    They can leave to avoid the combat.  They just can’t load units unless they’re also doing an amphibious assault.

  • 2022 2021 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15

    @simon33:

    Well if in that case UK units retake Egypt from the Axis, no income is collected for Egypt. Also if there were an IC on Egypt, no one could build out of it. So you have to get someone else to take the territory if you want the benefit.

    I am fully aware of this, but could be good to further explain the special case with the split british/uk economy

    1. If London is down India can just collect on the pacific map, all other british areas are not collected, such as Africa

    2. If India is down, I believe London will collect west India, correct? How does this make any sense when London can not collect say Borneo? (or any other pacific area) West India must have a special case as it can be collected on both maps for both India and London?

    3. Why cant the British/UK collect on both maps when all other nations can?

  • '19 '17 '16

    @Krieghund:

    @simon33:

    Correct except that the transports can’t leave SZ113 to avoid the combat. Only if they are conducting an amphibious assault somewhere else.

    They can leave to avoid the combat.  They just can’t load units unless they’re also doing an amphibious assault.

    May I ask why? The SZ isn’t hostile because it only has an enemy submarine. No enemy surface warships so the rules about sea units starting in a hostile SZ don’t apply; or do they?

    2. If India is down, I believe London will collect west India, correct?

    No.


  • America has a fighter and air base on Guam. Japan sends one transport with one infantry and one artillery into the surrounding sea zone to conduct an amphibious assault. A Japanese fighter joins them.

    1. Am I correct that during the combat move phase Japan must declare whether the fighter is staying in the sea zone to defend a possible scramble or joining the land battle in Guam?

    2. Am I correct that America can scramble to defend against the amphibious assault despite there being no sea battle in the zone?

    3. If there were not an amphibious assault, would America still be able to scramble?

    4. If my first two assumptions are correct, what happens in the scenario in which Japan commits its plane to the land battle and America scrambles? My assumption is the transport and it’s cargo are destroyed for free, the Japanese fighter conducts land battle against no defending units and wins, the territory is not captured due to Japan having no available land units. At the end of combat, America’s scrambled fighter freely lands back on Guam, and the Japanese plane must find a place to land.


  • Similiar-ish to above:

    Germany has two transports starting from sea zone 112.  They each load ground units.  One moves to SZ 111 and the other to SZ 119.  UK has just 1 fighter in Scotland, which it scrambles.  Ireland is still neutral.

    In this scenario, I assume the following:

    1. The fighter chooses exactly one sea zone to scramble into.

    2. The fighter destroys the transport in that sea zone.

    3. The other transport drops off its land units in Scotland and captures it (wins combat against 0 defenders).

    4. At the end of combat, the UK fighter is destroyed.  Only Scotland borders SZ111 and that has just been captured by Germany.  Scotland and Ireland border SZ119, but the fighter can’t land in either of those squares.

    5. As an additional assumption, if Germany also deployed to SZ109, the fighter from Scotland could scramble into 109, and then even if Scotland is captured, the UK fighter could land in London.


  • And as a more general question…

    If a fighter from Scotland scrambles into 109, I believe it can land in United Kingdom if Scotland is captured.  However, if Scotland is not captured, could the fighter which scrambled from Scotland into SZ109 still choose to land in the United Kingdom?

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