Greatest Generals


  • Moderator

    some english bloke…and the crooked smile



  • easy tiger, that smile is just there because i was happy that i could fit this rather amusing, but on the other hand quite useless information in. be happy for me too 🙂

    i am german myself, i wdnt let harm to my people, would i??

    😉

    anyways, bed time here now, laters



  • Cao Cao (though I have seen different English translations), the Lord of Wei ranks near the top of my list (as far as Einsenhower-Lee type generals go). This guy was a genius, skilled at politics, the military organization, and leadership, logistics, a wartime economy. In the year 208, he commanded over one million men.



  • commanded them where? to what end?



  • commanded them where? to what end?

    To countless victories victories are across China. Just look at how much of a badass Cao Cao was

    – In the year AD 192, Cao Mengde forced over three hundred thousand Yellow Turbans to surrender to him at Ji Bei

    – Cao Mengde took Emperor Xian to Xu Chang as a hostage and used him as puppet Emperor, elevated himself to Great General and Lord of Wuping.

    – In the fifth year of Rebuilt Tranquility (AD 200), Cao Cao killed Lü Bu (another badass in his own right), made Zhang Xiu surrender and fought against Liu Bei. He conquered the counties of Ji Zhou and after fighting Yuan Shao at Guan Du, pacified all of the north (China).

    – In the spring of AD 213, Cao Cao led an army to Ru Xu Mountain where he captured Gongsun Yang, receiving the Imperial Jade Seal from the Emperor, placing him above all the other lords

    – In the twentieth year of Rebuilt Tranquility (AD 215), he annihilated Zhang Lu (yes, more badasses - Cao Cao didn’t go against half-wits like Rommel) in Han Zhong



  • Thanks for clarifying. As for strategist, Id say Sun Tzu. Read the Art of War. Its simple but brilliant. It seems obvious, but was probably revolutionary at the time. We’ve learned these things over the years from secondary sources.



  • Yes, Sun Tzu has to rank among anybody’s Top 10 list of strategist - if not already being number one. Hell, his book is still esstenial reading in corporate warfare.

    But again, just to show how much of a badass Cao Cao was, in the Battle of Guandu (Yellow River - 200 AD), Cao Cao, with only 70,000 men under his command, was able to defeat Yuan Shao and his 700,000. Try beating those odds.



  • Who were the Yellow Turbans?



  • Here’s a mini-bio of the Yellow Turban’s and their revolt.

    “During the time of the Eastern Han dynasty (AD 25-220) the Chinese empire flowered. Paper was invented, overseas trade initiated from Nan-hai (Canton) and military campaigns secured the Silk road in Sinkiang. China’s economic resources, however, were exhausted by such campaigns. Taxation increased so much in the north, that many people migrated south to avoid it. Unrest increased among the impoverished peasants, until the revolt of the ‘Yellow Turbans’ broke out in AD 184. The rebels wore yellow headpieces in a shade that symbolized the soil. The ‘Yellow Turbans’ were secret societies, backed by Taoist theories. The revolt was suppressed but the landlords who united to suppress the peasant rebellion joined with provincial governors in creating a threat to the government and the Han dynasty fell in AD 220. After that more than three centuries followed in which there was no united government in China.”



  • Good info TG. Might I ask, how do you know so much about this seemingly obscure topic?



  • @TG:

    But again, just to show how much of a badass Cao Cao was, in the Battle of Guandu (Yellow River - 200 AD), Cao Cao, with only 70,000 men under his command, was able to defeat Yuan Shao and his 700,000. Try beating those odds.

    Well, I won’t dispute that’s pretty bad odds, but what kind of soldiers did he and his enemy have (class) and what were the battle conditions?



  • Here’s a great link about Battle of Guandu (with colored maps and all), though the numbers are different than the ones I read before.

    http://www.mystique-graphics.com/china/sanguo/guandu_2.html



  • Good info TG. Might I ask, how do you know so much about this seemingly obscure topic?

    I’m Asian, so I grew up around my parents watching the Asian Network for historical documentaries surrounding China, Japan, ect (though I liked watching the H Channel because it was “All Hitler, All The Time”) 😉



  • An Asian Californian Redneck?



  • My brother sometimes acts like pensive eccentric, but he is still my brother. ^_^;;

    and Saladin

    My favorite general is Saladin. Beloved by both Europe and the Middle East, Saladin was a man of honor and chivalry. Umm… concerning military strategy Saladin did win the Battle of Hattintake and was able to acquire Jerusalem against none other than King Richard the Lion Hearted. Saladin was known for his gentlemanly kindness to prisoners and enemies, and he even took care of King Richard when he was sick. Awww… o_o; Saladin is just like my favorite general of the skies, Adolf “Gallant” Galland. :oops:

    Here’s what my web sitey had to say on the gentleman Saladin was:

    "Most sources say that he was small, with a short, neat beard and somewhat frail. He was a excellent listener. His normally expressionless face would light-up when spoken to. This made the speaker feel comfortable and could speak very easily. You can see how vital this characteristic would be if you had to negotiate with the Crusaders who really didn’t want to negotiate in the first place. It was also seemingly a miracle that Saladin would negotiate with “infidels” (as the Muslims called them) in the first place

    Another characteristic that was considered shocking was how compassionate he was. He cried in front of his own advisors when he heard of his nephews death! This may not seem like so much today, but back then a Sultan never cried in front of anyone. Including himself.

    The next ‘shocking’ thing about Saladin was about how modest he was. He even took orders from his own servants. Here is an example: One night, after a large battle, Saladin was extremely tired and was lying on his bed to rest. His servant ran into his tent and shook him awake and told him to sign a paper. Saladin told him to go away because he was tired. The servant ignored him and shoved the paper in his face. Saladin said angrily, ‘I cannot sign the paper. I have a pen but no inkwell. How will I sign it then!’

    The servant replied, ‘It is right behind you.’

    Saladin smacked himself on the head, ‘So it is!’ Then he reached around a grabbed the inkwell.

    What the servant did was considered completely disrespectful and they usually were beaten for their ignorance, sometimes even killed! Saladin actually listened to the servant and fetched the inkwell himself. You can see for yourself what made Saladin such a good leader."

    It’s just so sad that even though Saladin was Kurdish, and single-handedly saved the Muslims from further bloodshed by European hands, Kurd aren’t looked highly upon in the Middle East today. 😢



  • An Asian Californian Redneck?

    You left out the Conservative Communist part too. 😉



  • COMMUNIST?!?!?! :evil:

    😉

    Im not Mike, but dont let him catch you saying that.



  • Umm… concerning military strategy Saladin did win the Battle of Hattintake and was able to acquire Jerusalem against none other than King Richard the Lion Hearted. Saladin was known for his gentlemanly kindness to prisoners and enemies, and he even took care of King Richard when he was sick.

    King Richard does not rank near the top of my list as far as generalship, but it has been a while since I looked into the Crusades. Of Saladin, I have read that he was indeed an able commander, and is deserving to be on the list. As far as taking care of King Richard, the most I have heard of him doing is sending a basket of ice and fruit to his tent when Richard was sick.



  • As far as able generals go, during the Crusades period, King Richard ranked as one of the best. You should try reading about him at the battle of Acres and Arsuf.

    Im not Mike, but dont let him catch you saying that.

    Mike already knows 😉



  • Asian Californian Conservative Communist Redneck… are you a ballet dancer too?



  • That would be TM. 😉
    (ballet dancing is so lame - I rather be watching something remotely more intelligent, like Ren & Stimpy)



  • @TG:

    As far as able generals go, during the Crusades period, King Richard ranked as one of the best. You should try reading about him at the battle of Acres and Arsuf.

    From what I do remember, the Crusades were not one of the greatest periods for able generalship, at least not on the Crusader side.



  • For the most part, it wasn’t. Bishops really shouldn’t lead troops into battle… but Richard would still have ranked as one of the best, no matter the era.



  • TG thanks for sharing your knowledge of Cao Cao. It’s good to get those non-Westerners in there. TM, thanks for giving Saladin a human face. I like History up close and personal.
    As for generals do sea battles count? My vote goes to Themistecles, who devised the plan, and Eurybiades who was the battle commander during the Battle of Salamis. Perhaps the batle that most influences the course of Western History.

    Dubya also Gatorade



  • Themistocles… yes, we can’t forget about him. Probably the greatest Athenian general next to the Great One (though Themistocles was navy-army - a rare two in one). As for Eurybiades, can you share a little more about him? I don’t know that much about him. 🙂


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