Why are the allies so gimped lately? Why transports suck?

  • TripleA

    This is a serious question. I mean when I look at global, 1941 and 1942… it just seems like there are less attacks and exchanges happening, because the allies start out gimped.

    D-day used to come quicker in the other games. Now it is slow.

    I wish they would go back to the old transport rules, because the have to get transports. The allies are paying 7 for a unit that only moves other units around… for USA this is traumatizing, because it is pretty much a 1 way ticket unless you further invest in a supply chain.

    1 transport to shuck to africa, 1 transport to pick up africa, 1 transport to come back from africa to pick up the east usa units.

    21 ipc to just get 2 units into position each turn. or you can invest in a kamehameha wave and do a 1 time drop… So usa has to spend twice as much as germany to just get men into the fight… and he has to spend money on naval units that just sit in the water.

    One cannot conquer berlin with destroyers and carriers.

    I just feel like the allies are gimped. Seriously no one wants to play the allies anymore for the newer games, like global, 1941 and 1942. This is really bad. People want to roll some dice.

    The whole transport thing wouldn’t be so bad if the atlantic started with a few more pieces or something.
    ~

    Plus, the real WWII transports had weapons on them like the LSTs. Since we can transport tanks, one would have to assume it is transport modeled to carry them, all of those models were armed.

    I feel that transports being able to defend themselves is historically accurate and better suits the game.

    Especially if they are carrying an AA gun… why wouldn’t the crew fire it? I understand it wouldn’t make sense for a transport to beat a sub, bship, cruiser, or destroyer… other than ramming the ship into them, but if it tried to do that of course it would get shot down before other naval units.
    ~
    from

    http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq39-1.htm

    Grunion (SS-216)        31 Jul 42         70 killed
     Sunk by gunfire from torpedoed Japanese transport Kashima Maru;
     10 miles north Segula, near Kiska Island, Aleutians.

    Japanese put torpedoes on freaking transports.

    Grayling (SS-209)       9 Sep 43          76 killed
     Probably rammed and sunk by Japanese transport Hokuan Maru,
     South China Sea west of Luzon.

    These are just the american sub losses to transports. I have a hard time finding a full list of naval casualties and from what. Would have to find a fighter casualty list as well.

  • '16 '15 '14 Customizer

    Yeah but then you are going back to the days when a lone transport could sink a cruiser or carrier.


  • @Der:

    Yeah but then you are going back to the days when a lone transport could sink a cruiser or carrier.

    Carriers should have the two hit rule like in Global.

  • TripleA

    what is wrong with a lone transport sinking a cruiser dd or carrier? In real naval warfare, a transport could ram a ship.

    The japanese ones had torpedoes on them, so yeah, a transport can defend itself.

    Hell even merchant ships rammed into uboats in ww1, why can’t ramming occur in ww2?

    Also subs cost 6 now so yeah you probably want to use subs to kill transports anyway.


  • For the USA this IS traumatizing.

    Either the US should start with WAY more infantry on the mainland to offset the cost it’s going to have to pay for boats later.
    (By WAY more I mean like 6 more)

    Or play with the US National Advantage “Liberty Ships”
    United States transports can be purchased for 5 IPCs, but may only be placed in sea zones adjacent to original US territories.


  • So far, I disagree with what’s stated above.

    I’ve played 5 games as Allies and only lost 1 - the Allies have some really tough challenges but so do they have already on AA50, AA42 1st Ed and Global.

    The main problem with playing the Allies right now is that people have no idea of what strategies work or not because of the different SZs and the 2 additional ICs. For the Axis the choices are almost the same (specially Germany) so it’s easier to play Axis and win, specially if you’re going KGF.

    To me it is a challenge to figure out the best Allied play. How to set up the US shuck with the different new SZs on the Atlantic. Or how to best use the UK Indian Ocean fleet.

    Just looking at the game and criticizing rejecting the new features/rules just because they are different from previous or not up to our individual expectations, or we don’t want to learn new strats, doesn’t really help improve your gameplay, IMO.


  • I think this is more balanced than 42.1, I’m just saying having CVs with two hits would be great (take a beating like the Yorktown/Saratoga). 
    The only problem is that it seems a KJF strat seems more successful than a KGF at the moment, but I can be wrong on this.


  • @Mallery29:

    I think this is more balanced than 42.1, I’m just saying having CVs with two hits would be great (take a beating like the Yorktown/Saratoga). 
    The only problem is that it seems a KJF strat seems more successful than a KGF at the moment, but I can be wrong on this.

    2nd Edition actually favors more the Allies on Asia than the 1st Ed, if you are trying KGF. Japan will eventually take over the Indian IC but the more units the UK manages to build the better overall for the Allies, since its focus should  be first on taking that IC rather than going after Russia.
    The big issue is figuring out the US shuck since it is more similar to Global than anything else because of the UK not being into range of Eastern US and the distances have increased. And where exactly are the best landing spots.


  • @Hobbes:

    The big issue is figuring out the US shuck since it is more similar to Global than anything else because of the UK not being into range of Eastern US and the distances have increased. And where exactly are the best landing spots.

    Isn’t the first place to look for US troops to shuck from Eastern Canada. They could ship out via SZ 10 –> SZ 8 (land in France or Northwestern Europe) or SZ 10 --> SZ 13 (land in Gibraltar or Morocco).

  • Customizer

    @Hobbes:

    So far, I disagree with what’s stated above.

    I’ve played 5 games as Allies and only lost 1 - the Allies have some really tough challenges but so do they have already on AA50, AA42 1st Ed and Global.

    The main problem with playing the Allies right now is that people have no idea of what strategies work or not because of the different SZs and the 2 additional ICs. For the Axis the choices are almost the same (specially Germany) so it’s easier to play Axis and win, specially if you’re going KGF.

    To me it is a challenge to figure out the best Allied play. How to set up the US shuck with the different new SZs on the Atlantic. Or how to best use the UK Indian Ocean fleet.

    Just looking at the game and criticizing rejecting the new features/rules just because they are different from previous or not up to our individual expectations, or we don’t want to learn new strats, doesn’t really help improve your gameplay, IMO.

    I completely agree with Hobbes. My group has never had a problem with voles lettered wanting to play both sides. Players rarely play the same nation/side twice in a row.

    And for what it’s worth. I think the aa50 transport rules were one of the best changes A&A has ever made. And let’s face it, aa50 including its transport rules are pretty near perfect. Any game that emulates it so closely has a leg up on any game trying to emulate AAR.

    Just my two opinionated cents.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Transports should be true combat vessels…something like 2-2-2-8 units for the extra combat punch.

    Oh wait. NM.

    The old rules regarding AP were needed for games like Milton Bradley since it didn’t have all the naval ships, but now we got cruisers and destroyers.

    AP’s as fodder with these new units is silly.

  • TripleA

    I’ve played 5 games as Allies and only lost 1 - the Allies have some really tough challenges but so do they have already on AA50, AA42 1st Ed and Global.

    Not about winning or losing, there is less action going on, which makes the game boring. Seriously, when AA50 is sitting around… no one wants to touch anything else. Half the people that play axis and allies don’t care about the pacific, I am not joking either. I like to do stuff in the pacific, but the feeling is never mutual. People want to roll something in Europe.


  • @UrJohn:

    @Hobbes:

    The big issue is figuring out the US shuck since it is more similar to Global than anything else because of the UK not being into range of Eastern US and the distances have increased. And where exactly are the best landing spots.

    Isn’t the first place to look for US troops to shuck from Eastern Canada. They could ship out via SZ 10 –> SZ 8 (land in France or Northwestern Europe) or SZ 10 --> SZ 13 (land in Gibraltar or Morocco).

    Morocco is crucial

  • TripleA

    Plus I hate the new armor rules, it blows. What a way to nerf japan from taking russia.

    Seriously, 2 inf attacks better than 1 armor @ the same cost.


  • The power of ARM is in the 2 MOV. Compare price to FTR @ 10 IPC for the same ATK on land attacks, and you’ll see that @ 6 IPC ARM is a reasonable deal in the right situations. At 5 IPC ARM was underpriced, and it caused ‘too many’ degenerate all ARM buys.


  • @UrJohn:

    ‘too many’ degenerate all ARM buys.

    “Dude, that buy was just degenerated”
    “Man, don’t degenerate yourself by getting so much tanks”
    “That move is an act of degeneration…”

    Love the expression  :mrgreen:


  • LOL

  • TripleA

    well the most cost effective attack army was still infantry/arty. I’d rather go back to the 3/2 armor @ 5, it promotes more action.

    Besides all tanks with no cannon fodder, seldom works out for people, I don’t see why you would complain. If that is fun for someone to buy all tanks and slam it at russia or something, then that is fine. That person already has a high probability of losing, why punish him further?

    I can see global making tanks 5 to keep russia alive, because of the pacific oriented nature of that game. Also global is not made to be played by a general audience, it is meant to be played by the few people who are willing to stay up 7 - 18 hours.

    I get that for axis and allies to improve on previous 1942 iterations, they have to make the game more dynamic, but at the same time you can’t take all the action away and expect people to get on board.

    I like 1941, because it doesn’t take long for big showdowns to occur, however 1941 favors the axis. Generally speaking japan will take the islands, lose some of asia early on, germany produces 4 units to russia’s 3… eventually russia falls after caucasus is held for a few (5 unit to 3 a turn, uk and japan in the mix generally cancels each other out). It kind of turns into a grind, but it doesn’t take long to get to the end result, a big capital showdown.


  • @Cow:

    well the most cost effective attack army was still infantry/arty. I’d rather go back to the 3/2 armor @ 5, it promotes more action.

    Besides all tanks with no cannon fodder, seldom works out for people, I don’t see why you would complain. If that is fun for someone to buy all tanks and slam it at russia or something, then that is fine. That person already has a high probability of losing, why punish him further?

    I can see global making tanks 5 to keep russia alive, because of the pacific oriented nature of that game.

    I get that for axis and allies to improve on previous 1942 iterations, they have to make the game more dynamic, but at the same time you can’t take all the action away and expect people to get on board.

    I have the experience of playing Classic with 6 IPC armor before it was dropped down to 5 on Revised and I don’t honestly feel that it changes the ability to send armor stacks. You have 30 IPC to spend on armor, you buy 5 now instead of 6.
    What it does is to make players think twice about spending so much money on armor and using artillery instead (which many people only bought if they had that extra 1 IPC around). And since on 2nd Ed. the Axis can win without having to conquer Moscow it also opens the game to other ways of winning rather than the old Japanese Tank Drive To Moscow (JTDTM).
    Plus, it affects the Allies as well. I used to have at least a stack of 10 Soviet T-34s to act as a mobile quick reserve. Now it’s only down to 4, 5… comrades have become poor… poor comrades 😢

  • TripleA

    classic was 5 ipc for an armor, they were 3/2 units, which were only purchased before an attack. Karelia was really close for germany and vice versa for russia. So it would turn into an infantry slugfest. If I was going to attack karelia, I’d buy armor the round before and hit it with all my might and hope for the best. Since the game is pretty much won or lost in karelia.

    The # of spaces between russia and germany is not very many, just like revised. Infantry is still very good. There are lots of artillery buys in aa50 and revised, it is not an underused unit by no means. Sure Japan spams tanks to attack russia, because the armor has 2 movement and the places japan can put industrials were far away.

    Also germany could only buy 10 units a round, so he is trying to spend 40-54 ipc for 10 units.


  • @Cow:

    classic was 5 ipc for an armor, they were 3/2 units, which were only purchased before an attack. Karelia was really close for germany and vice versa for russia. So it would turn into an infantry slugfest. If I was going to attack karelia, I’d buy armor the round before and hit it with all my might and hope for the best. Since the game is pretty much won or lost in karelia.

    Ah, that was the difference, the defense at 2. I stand corrected. But yeah, it was pretty much decided on Karelia… once the Germans got a foothold and were able to produce then it was pretty much done.
    The distance from Karelia and Germany is still the same though, although there’s now 1 more space between the former and Russia.

  • TripleA

    Karelia is generally speaking a bad idea for germany in this version as well as aa50 (except for 1942, you could hold karelia for awhile and russia was pretty screwed anyway unless it got a bid to smooth out the opening attacks).

    Axis wants caucasus like in aa50, That is still a bigger priority. It gets you right next to russia, a good spot to pump infantry out. You would churn out tanks from germany if anything, but usually you have to deal with the allies dropping in from above and below so you would end up buying infantry/arty mixes.

  • TripleA

    Another problem is that no one buys armor anymore for 1942 and 1941. Maybe you buy an armor for germany 2 rounds before you all in on russia in 1941, so that makes 2 armor purchased after 8-20 infantry depending on how the game develops.

  • '16 '15 '14 Customizer

    @UrJohn:

    At 5 IPC ARM was underpriced, and it caused ‘too many’ degenerate all ARM buys.

  • TripleA

    LOL I LOVE THAT lol.

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