Any opinions on AL Chief Justice Roy Moore's stance…



  • SOURCE :
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95342,00.html

    First, the concept of the “separation of church and state” is NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION OR THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE!


    The Declaration of Independence(1776) mentions “God” in the first sentence and “their Creator” in the second paragraph. In the last paragraph God is referred to as “the Supreme Judge.”


    The phrase “…so help me, God” is included in the USVP’s Oath of Office(US Constitution, written 1787, ratified 1789.) Though it is not included in the President’s Oath of Office, the phrase has been added by presidents since I can remember(JFK.)


    For scores of years in courts across the USA, witnesses have been asked, “Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,so help you, God?”


    As for the phrase “IN GOD WE TRUST”…

    SOURCE :
    http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.html

    …it was instigated by letters written to the SecTres in 1861(ring a bell?)

    [from the same source, 2/3s the way down the page]
    In addition, regarding the phrase “IN GOD WE TRUST” a law was passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957.
    ???
    How can the courts say 'God/The Ten Commandments must be removed from government facilities"?



  • Ok, now as you all know, I am an atheist. I think using the phrase “In God we Trust” is fine, its not hurting anybody, and Im not going to make a fuss over it (though I wouldnt mind if it were removed). As for the Ten Commandments, thats a different story. Using the word “God”, IMO, does not have to refer to religion. I think that its become a part of our vernacular, and can be used without necessarily implying a religious affiliation (I personally say it all the time, and you all know I think religion should be abolished). Also, it doesnt refer specifically to Christianity, though that is the general interpretation. The Ten Commandments are decidedly Christian. You can argue about the “Thou Shalt not Kill”, “Thou Shalt not Steal” etc, but “Thou Shalt Have No Other God Before Me”? Excuse me? Not only is that Christian, but it does not have universal applications like the others. Its not like “Thou Shalt not Kill” where it is a good general rule to follow. It is very religious, and IMO, should not be allowed. The Ten Commandments should not be posted in Government places (nor should we have religion 😉 ) but “God” is ok to use.



  • How there they try to take down a monument of me! Those heathens, I will make them suffer! :evil:

    All kidding aside, I think that the Commandments should stay… if anything it’s a historical landmark. I’m not a Christian or any of those religions, but me thinks, “Thall shall not commit adultry” is generally a rule you should follow (sorry Kobe :-?). As for the whole “God something something before me,” ignore it like I am. It’s not like someone is trying to ram those words down your throat or that the have a huge effect on the judical process. But no, once again they try to rip apart the South…



  • Honestly, I wouldnt have a problem with it, except that its part of these religious fu*ks agenda to spread their own religion. its not about these things being good general rules (though most of them are) its about them trying to take a victory, they get to put ten of their core beliefs up in public places, its more of a moral victory to them.



  • What I felt was really silly was once the decision was made that the Commandments had to go, the building manager erected a barrier around the monument so that people would be unable to see it.
    “Don’t look- you might catch some religon in ya!”
    I don’t know if the barrier is still there.



  • and trying to prevent it is a “moral”/amoral victory for those with different agendas.


  • Moderator

    It definately would not say this is not a victory for freedom of religion :-? … yeah it is a unwise decicsion… we were based on the princables of the 10 commandments… It is illegal to murder… hmmm wonder were that came from 8)…



  • we arent though. Not directly at least. because every religion has laws against murder, and theft, its not only christianity. and while you could call it a moral victory for those against religion, its also technically not legal, as it would be state promotion of religion. this country was founded on freedom of religion, and that includes the freedom not to have religion. like i already said, using the word god in various ways isnt hurting anybody (figure of speech) but the ten commandments should definetly not be allowed.



  • The Founding Fathers(call me a sexist) agreed to include the terms “God, Supreme Judge, and their Creator” in the Declaration of Independence yet they were of a variety of faiths(yes,all christian, but they overcame their differences.)

    I think the “10” should remain and some main tenants of other faiths that show application to the law should be permitted to be installed by those who believe or practice other faiths as well.

    The Code of Hamurabi would look nice in quartz!


  • Moderator

    @Janus1:

    we arent though. Not directly at least. because every religion has laws against murder, and theft, its not only christianity. and while you could call it a moral victory for those against religion, its also technically not legal, as it would be state promotion of religion. this country was founded on freedom of religion, and that includes the freedom not to have religion. like i already said, using the word god in various ways isnt hurting anybody (figure of speech) but the ten commandments should definetly not be allowed.

    true Janus but in reality Christianity for some reason is more persecuted in the US then any other religion as far as genereal removal of hard( statues, plaques, symbols, etc.) material… if they had a plaque in Ala. that had the Kaoran or Conficious laws on it I doubt it would even be challenged… when is the last time You’ve heard of US shootings in a Musque?
    Just my personal opinion…



  • Honestly, I wouldnt have a problem with it, except that its part of these religious fu*ks agenda to spread their own religion. its not about these things being good general rules (though most of them are) its about them trying to take a victory, they get to put ten of their core beliefs up in public places, its more of a moral victory to them.

    So what? I could just as easily say, “Ice Cubes = Proof of God” :-?
    Sorry if I don’t really see this Christian conspiracy to take over the world by placing historical landmarks near and around Federal Buildings. In either case, this is a matter that citizens of the state of Alabama should decide on.

    this country was founded on freedom of religion, and that includes the freedom not to have religion. like i already said, using the word god in various ways isnt hurting anybody (figure of speech) but the ten commandments should definetly not be allowed.

    Where is the Ten Commandments hurting anybody? Or perhaps we could sandblast the parts of the commandments people don’t like.



  • @TG:

    Honestly, I wouldnt have a problem with it, except that its part of these religious fu*ks agenda to spread their own religion. its not about these things being good general rules (though most of them are) its about them trying to take a victory, they get to put ten of their core beliefs up in public places, its more of a moral victory to them.

    So what? I could just as easily say, “Ice Cubes = Proof of God” :-?
    Sorry if I don’t really see this Christian conspiracy to take over the world by placing historical landmarks near and around Federal Buildings. In either case, this is a matter that citizens of the state of Alabama should decide on.

    well put TG… the Alabaman’s should decide it…


  • Moderator

    whoops that was me again :lol: :lol:



  • true Janus but in reality Christianity for some reason is more persecuted in the US then any other religion as far as genereal removal of hard( statues, plaques, symbols, etc.) material…

    Perhaps, but there are (probably) more christians in this country than other religions, and I dont recall ever hearing about, or seeing any material from other religions in public places. maybe thats just where i live, but i dont know

    So what? I could just as easily say, “Ice Cubes = Proof of God”

    Um…what?

    Sorry if I don’t really see this Christian conspiracy to take over the world by placing historical landmarks near and around Federal Buildings.

    sigh exagerate much? im not suggesting that there is any “christian conspiracy” (although…. 😉) what i mean is, in the same way that some atheists protest “One Nation Under God” in the pledge of allegiance, which i think is solely for a moral victory, and not because they are actually offended (I dont say the pledge of allegiance, but not because of that phrase). I think thats why these people are trying to put the ten commandments up, just a moral victory.

    In either case, this is a matter that citizens of the state of Alabama should decide on.

    agreed

    Where is the Ten Commandments hurting anybody?

    sigh again, did you read my post? I purposely put in parenthesis “figure of speech”, because obviously (i assume) nobody is being “hurt” by them.



  • sigh again, did you read my post? I purposely put in parenthesis “figure of speech”, because obviously (i assume) nobody is being “hurt” by them.

    Yes…

    like i already said, using the word god in various ways isnt hurting anybody (figure of speech) but the ten commandments should definetly not be allowed.

    Your “but” implies that the former would not hurt anybody, and the latter would. Just good old Californian English… 😉

    some atheists protest “One Nation Under God” in the pledge of allegiance, which i think is solely for a moral victory, and not because they are actually offended (I dont say the pledge of allegiance, but not because of that phrase). I think thats why these people are trying to put the ten commandments up, just a moral victory.

    I would agree if that happened today, but from what I heard from locals, the (father and mothers growing up around it) Commandments have been there for quite some time. Therefore, this “Chrisitan conspiracy” had to have begun pretty early…

    Um…what?

    In the future, small frozen blocks of water, or cubes of ice will cool our drinks all year around. Therefore, I have decided to call them “God Cubes”



  • Your “but” implies that the former would not hurt anybody, and the latter would. Just good old Californian English…

    ok, fine. 😉



  • (LJ sulks and leaves feeling neglected because no one even insulted his late post.)



  • @El:

    The Founding Fathers(call me a sexist) agreed to include the terms “God, Supreme Judge, and their Creator” in the Declaration of Independence yet they were of a variety of faiths(yes,all christian, but they overcame their differences.)

    I think the “10” should remain and some main tenants of other faiths that show application to the law should be permitted to be installed by those who believe or practice other faiths as well.

    The Code of Hamurabi would look nice in quartz!

    @LJ:

    (LJ sulks and leaves feeling neglected because no one even insulted his late post.)

    Sorry, LJ. How about: you don’t see many Babylonians around nowadays, do you?



  • Hey,I just saw a coupla sweet Babylonians walking down the street yesterday!

    OW! My wife just walked by and saw what I’d typed. I can’t tell you what she did to me, but let’s just say it usually involves leather.

    'scuse me! Gotta go see if this means what I think it means… Woo-woo!



  • Haha, go El Jefe, it yo birthday……



  • I have a sinking feeling that if this was a historical copy of the Koran, nobody would dare bring up this issue, becuase they would be branded “uncompassionate” or “bigoted.” Why is it that these people only want to do away with so-called “Christian” icons?



  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    I have a sinking feeling that if this was a historical copy of the Koran, nobody would dare bring up this issue, becuase they would be branded “uncompassionate” or “bigoted.” Why is it that these people only want to do away with so-called “Christian” icons?

    if i had a dime for every time i asked myself that question, i could drop out of med school.



  • perhaps there would be less people, but i would still protest it, as you know, im against all religions 😉



  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    I have a sinking feeling that if this was a historical copy of the Koran, nobody would dare bring up this issue, becuase they would be branded “uncompassionate” or “bigoted.” Why is it that these people only want to do away with so-called “Christian” icons?

    Well, one of the big differences between Christianity and Islam is that the second has a political message. It is strobngly political, setting up explicit laws (like done by the Jews before). It is not only a religion (in the sense of soul saving), but also was meant to unify the arabs, and it gives the tool for that.
    So, from my point of view: I don’t that fact of Islam. Many others though who are frequently brought up, are brought up in a misunderstood fashion. And some things about Islam are actually very good ideas and would be extremely helpful even today, when implemented by other cultures.



  • I may have interpreted your post incorrectly Falk, but I think you missed the point entirely.


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

55
Online

13.7k
Users

34.1k
Topics

1.3m
Posts